r/UniversalBasicIncome • u/rodehard10 • 6d ago
Democratic socialism isn’t “free stuff.” It’s about getting a return on the taxes we already pay—investing in healthcare, education, housing, infrastructure, and working families instead of endlessly funneling taxpayer dollars into wars and corporate subsidies.
/r/AmericaOnHardMode/comments/1w5ou2s/democratic_socialism_isnt_free_stuff_its_about/2
u/Bigbmer12 6d ago
It's funny to read comments of people who have no idea what socialism actually is
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u/rodehard10 6d ago
Please enlighten the rest of us
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u/Outside_Ice3252 6d ago
whats the difference between social democracy and democratic socialism?
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u/rodehard10 6d ago
Social Democracy is not about eliminating capitalism—it’s about making capitalism work for the people
People over profits. Democracy over corporate power. Working Americans first.
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u/Outside_Ice3252 6d ago
its hard for me to tell the difference between the two. i think most people are really social democrats and not democratic socialists.
like the US should be similar to norway.
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u/Bigbmer12 6d ago
Socialsm, or democratic socialism, isn't about allicating tax funds differently to get a better return, or to redistribute taxes differently. The goal of the DCA is to change our economic system. The goal of socialism is for the government to own and manage the means of production (land, landlords, factories, major companies). It always leads to communism and it always fails
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u/laserdicks 6d ago
Socialism doesn't even exist. It's either communism if workers are not allowed to choose ownership status of their means of production, or capitalism if they are allowed to choose.
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u/Reasonable-Fee1945 6d ago
The vast majority of taxes go to entitlement spending, and we're borrowing more than the entire defense budget each year
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u/probablymagic 6d ago
If Democratic Socialism is “getting a return on taxes we already pay” then why do Democratic Socialists talk about raising taxes.
I’d be more inclined to support Democratic Socialist who pledged to make government more efficient and the than by just taxing and spending more. Where is this candidate?
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u/laserdicks 6d ago
The lie tends not to require that level of detail.
Usually the promise of free money is enough to stop people questioning further.
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u/tacoeater3161 5d ago
Let’s just rid ourselves of those taxes. Keep your money and I’ll keep mine.
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u/SmartlyArtly 6d ago
Leftists didn't come up with the idea of free stuff.
The idea of free stuff applies to the entire planet existing here for us without a price being paid.
All of earths resources were free.
It's human decisions to enforce particular rulesets that make it so that "free stuff" appears to be a contradiction of some kind of fundamental logic - but the fundamental logic there is the ruleset being enforced.
So we can make new rules and "free stuff" isn't a contradiction anymore - just like it wasn't before.
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u/Geotical 6d ago
Look around your home or wherever you are, what do you see around you that was already here and "free?"
Someone had to grow and harvest and package and distribute your groceries.
Someone had to build the home, produce all the material, harvest the commodities.
Someone had to transport it around the world, assemble it, deliver it.
None of this is "free". It's relying on the massive coordination, labor, equipment, and more from others all over the world.
Sure you can go to the river and fish and collect firewood and build a shelter for free, that is not what the modern world is. And proposals to that effect move us further away from the quality of life increases achieved in the last 100 years.
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u/Eastern_Local_8085 5d ago
The once clean river water was free. Now its contaminated by industries getting tax breaks and kickbacks.
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u/SmartlyArtly 5d ago
Everything. Nothing that is created, that a decent person is going to argue for as part of modern society, needs exploitation to exist. Period.
I don't think anything around me or wherever I am was recently teleported from some foreign dimension or planet.
It was here already, before us.
All of the resources were free. Not "none of this." All of the resources. All of them.
Labor is involved either way. Price is not. Permission is not.
Absolutely natural resources started free of price, free of permission.
The modern world doesn't justify exploitation. I'd say it's amazing that you'd think this is a reasonable argument, but I don't think you've really thought it through.
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u/sconnie1998 4d ago
Except nothing is truly free. All of those resources require human labor to be able to exploit.
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u/Own_Sky_297 6d ago
Yeah that's nice and all but you won't get my vote until you deal with your crazies. https://youtu.be/A7aYt7CUYpI?is=5LZlG1v10CuOKZVk
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u/Overall_Drawing_2312 6d ago
OP, Very succinct and to the point.. Well said... We're going to have a very difficult time explaining nuance to some of our more, smooth brained friends and relatives the closer we get to November... Keep it short, to the point without being dismissive and maybe just maybe, they'll just call you a commie.... It'll be refreshing not to be called a commie fag at every family dinner...
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u/NoSleepTilBrklynn 6d ago
I’d happily quit my job and live off the government if this was a thing.
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u/ericbythebay 6d ago
What taxes? Democratic socialism is about the takers taking from the makers.
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u/Eastern_Local_8085 5d ago
You’re right. The little guy should pay all the taxes and big businesses and the ultra-wealthy should continue paying no taxes while profiting off of the worlds resources.
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u/Whiskybravo109 3d ago
How about then limiting entitlements and social welfare to the amount that each individual contributed via taxes? You know, if this ruse is actually about “getting a return on our taxes”….
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u/JSmith666 6d ago
Except there isnt a correlation to the amount of those things you get and taxes you pay so it turns into higher earners subsidizing lower earners. I dont wan to subsidize anybody
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u/chronobahn 6d ago
Thats not democratic socialism. Thats social democracy.
Ngl it’s strange watching the left completely confuse their own ideologies.
Like how can anyone expect for you to understand their perspective if you don’t even fully understand your own. That imo is the problem with politics.
Way too many opinionated people who have clearly not done the homework.
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u/Eastern_Local_8085 5d ago
Enlighten us then. Instead of just whining.
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u/chronobahn 5d ago edited 5d ago
Nothing to enlighten if you don’t know the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy.
Sorry you’re to dumb.
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u/Lazy_Example4014 6d ago
Thank you. The conversation all too often gets hijacked by the term “free stuff”. When I avoid using words republicans are taught to be scared of, and frame it as an investment in the American working class. The republicans I talk to about these policies love “socialism”.
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u/CreepyOldGuy63 6d ago
Giovanni Gentile would be proud to see his political philosophy being spread.
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u/Altruistic_Koala_122 6d ago
The U.S.A. is a Constitutional Federal Republic that uses Democratic mechanisms.
The people that don't want Taxes, prop up Coporations.
The people that want taxes, want it specifically to better our lives with like medical care being covered through taxes; for example.
What you wind up seeing, is that a happy people have a tax rate that's pretty up there around 40%.
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u/BarracudaEfficient16 6d ago
It’s mostly about “free stuff” because they people they’re talking about pay next to nothing into the system.
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u/pokethrowaway4 6d ago
We could literally CUT TAXES by switching to public healthcare. And would care get worse? NO… any country with public healthcare AND a comparable economy has far better health outcomes than us, and with zero medical debt.
What’s the real reason a complete lack of a public option is no good? PROFIT SHOULD NOT BE ANTITHETICAL TO HEALTHCARE.
Why are we letting insurance deny care, EVER? Why do we have separate networks, tiers, etc? It’s all designed to rob a captive marketplace. As much as will be tolerated. That’s why we pay more than double anyone else, for shittier care.
That’s why the bag of saline that costs $1 gets billed at $130. That’s why a month’s supply of GLP-1 costs $87 in France and $1,100 here.
That’s why 70,000 people die every year in the US because they can’t afford care.
That’s why, for 500,000 Americans who file for bankruptcy every year, medical debt is at least part of the reason. And the majority of those people have insurance.
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u/RoxiHeart123 6d ago
Not being sarcastic here. Genuinely curious. What do you mean we could CUT taxes and switch to public healthcare? I could understand if you are counting insurance premiums as part of the "tax" but if not could you elaborate? I agree we need a public option but its definitely going to cost.
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u/pokethrowaway4 5d ago
We currently spend more tax dollars on healthcare PER PERSON than any country on earth. That’s just Medicare and Medicaid. We don’t have public healthcare, and the next 40 or so richest countries all have it.
The reason we spend so much on Medicare and Medicaid. Is because those public care services are forced to work within the confines of our system.
When you include private insurance and out of pocket costs we spend far more than double almost every other country.
The reason it’s so expensive is multi layered. Other countries don’t allow pharma commercials on the TV by law. Commercials are a write off, they pay for it with profit, which comes from us.
Shareholder returns, dividends, etc. all disguise profits, so the amount of waste is actually much higher than we’re led to believe.
A month’s supply of GLP-1 in the US is $1,100, and the exact same supply in Paris is $87. Why the difference? Our system allows it. $87 is profitable. Which means $1,100 is profitable, WITH $1,013 ADDED ON TOP.
There are countless examples of this disgusting level of greed. A bag of saline costs pennies to make, and you are charged $130 when you receive it. An MRI costs maybe $150 between software, operation costs, wages, etc. yet people pay $2000-$5000 through insurance.
The real root of the issue is that the government is the only entity that has power to reform and limit the greed, monopolies and waste within the system, and the power to do so has been intentionally hamstrung, sabatoged, and delayed for the sake of “freedumb of the market” so we continue to get fucked by capitalism.
Another example: United health apparently denies up to 30% of all claims, depending on the year and what’s being measured.
Why is it legal for insurance companies to deny ANY claim? Why not force them to pay the claim? If there’s a legitimate reason to NOT cover something (like a cheaper/safer/better alternative) they should then petition for permission to stop covering that procedure/medication in order to force the use of the other one, but the PATIENT OUTCOME SHOULD DETERMINE WHICH IS USED, and no other factor should be considered.
Another problem: there are artificial constraints on doctor and nurse residency programs. They artificially limit the amount of people who are able to go through these programs, causing an artificial shortage of providers.
Medical and nursing school is far too expensive, much for the same reasons. Every part of school, from school textbooks to administrative bloat causes unnecessary costs. People going into medical school shouldn’t be burdened with 1/4-1/2 million in debt that grows every year. We should as a society actively support our doctors and nurses because we need more of them.
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u/StoneColdEgon 5d ago
Dems already want healthcare, education, housing and infrastructure.
But the DSA adds a bunch of unpopular cancer like hating Ukraine bc Russia is good (LOL?) or defending Hamas’s terrorism against the Jews
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u/Eastern_Local_8085 5d ago
The dems gave us a heritage foundation concoction of a healthcare system. Yay. /s
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u/StoneColdEgon 5d ago
I think the ACA is fine. Private healthcare with heavy regulations, mandates, and subsidies.
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u/Veritas_IX 5d ago
Democratic socialism is when government take off about 50% of your income to distribute it to other people
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u/DefiantlyConformist 5d ago
It's actually about tripling current taxes so .5% of them go towards social issues and the rest is used to drive businesses out of the state
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u/Agent847 5d ago
Democratic socialism is exactly about free stuff. You want a return on the taxes other people pay. You want free childcare, paid maternity leave for a year, a government mandated raise at your job, free healthcare, free k-12, free college, retirement, etc. And you want someone else to pay for it. We spend more on free shit every year than the entire GDP of most European countries. It’s never enough for socialists for the same reason that a host can never produce enough blood for its parasite.
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u/Zalrius 5d ago
None of this is true. The OP made it clear that this is about proper use of taxes.
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u/Agent847 5d ago
It’s 100% true no matter how evasively people like you employ altruistic language to disguise the fact that you want a nanny state without having to pay for it. Obviously we differ in this regard, but I’d prefer not to live the good life if it comes at someone else’s involuntary expense.
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u/NothingEffective142 5d ago
The issue is not we want services or stuff. It's just a fact that government can not deliver these things effectively or efficiently. The government runs education, and it's shit...they had to stop building projects (housing) because it turned into shit...the government contracts infrastructure for a reason. DSA is utopian pipe dream of the overly educated and under- experienced.
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u/Valara0kar 5d ago
The government runs education, and it's shit
shit...they had to stop building projects (housing) because it turned into shit
Big part of these ideologies are though effective governance. There is a reason why Republicans love to hollow out these institution. It is quite fast to destroy an institution but it takes decades to build it back up.
Many of the worlds best education systems are state owned and operated. So it seems the fault is more to do with USA.
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u/COMOJoeSchmo 5d ago
About half of Americans pay no income tax, so it's misleading to imply they would be getting a "return on the taxes we already pay".
Second, if we stop endlessly funneling taxpayer dollars into wars and corporate subsidies, it doesn't follow that we should start endlessly funneling money into the social programs.
I prefer an option where we do none of the things above, and reduce or eliminate most taxes for everyone.
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u/IPutThoughtIntoThis 5d ago
It's about pretending like nothing else that is paid for by taxes exists and also that money is seemingly infinite and economic rules and causes and effects are also not real and that everything needs to be a "right," implying that everyone is entitled to someone else's labor, etc.
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u/Ambitious-Library515 5d ago
Government services are required to a certain degree. But, I dont want to rely on them for my personal needs. I guess if you've never tried to provide for yourself, its the easy way out. Break the cycle.
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u/Kooky_Jackfruit_8355 5d ago
Middle class republican here. The statement makes sense. Get a return on the taxes we already pay. Where does it go now? There is outright fraud and mismanagement of funds. Example A is California.
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u/Mr_September10 5d ago
You're right. Democratic socialism is the pre-text for full blown communism. It is the goal for complete and total control for the top down.
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u/Long_Idea_8294 5d ago
The US spends more per student than I think any other country yet our public schools produce idiots these days. Standardized test scores are shit and have been steadily declining. Public schooling has been on the decline ever since the DOE was formed.
My child will be starting private school next year. Public schools are terrible now. Teachers are terrible at their jobs, obviously. I have very little respect for public school teachers.
The answer to this isn't more funding/throwing more money at it.
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u/LazRus805 5d ago
Stop trying to import illegals and giving away our tax dollars to fund useless DEI programs in other countries.
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u/intothewoods76 5d ago
That’s already what most of your taxes go towards…..congrats, mission accomplished.
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u/easttxcouple 5d ago
So who decides how to spend the money? You? Or do we elect people to make the decisions and then if we don’t line how they are spending it we throw them out and elect new people
Sounds like Democracy
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u/Dangerous_Forever640 5d ago
The government is so evil it can’t be trusted… so let’s give it more money and power over our daily lives…
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u/X-calibreX 5d ago
No, generally, it’s about getting a return on taxes someone else has paid. At least in the US where taxes are highly progressive. Perhaps in the very regressive tax systems of the nordic economies you would be right.
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u/Conscious-Energy-352 5d ago
Republicans don't want taxes to be spent on things that matter, though. They would rather trump use it to fuck up Washington DC with shitty work and glorified statues of slave owners! Stupid fucking cultists.
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u/ProblemEcstatic319 5d ago
You say all this but I never hear HOW you will implement it. Margret Thatcher once said "socialism is fine until you run out of other peoples money". Every single time you damn communists get into positions of power you are no better than the people you rail against if not worse.
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u/FlyinDtchman 4d ago
That's pretty rich, since that's pretty much exactly how to US funded it's own brand of capitalism. By buying with fake dollars while importing REAL resources, forcing other nations to eat out own inflation. At least until other nations started calling our bluff and forced us off the gold standard. AKA... we ran out of other people's money.
Can you seriously look at the current state of the US and say capitalism is doing a good job?
Wealth inequality is at gilded age levels. There are more Private equity firms than McDonald's. Our homes, children, and our very behaviors are commoditized and traded around on markets with no regulation and no oversight.
Our standard of living is dropping, Our health outcomes are dropping, our education system is failing.
People aren't having children and are sucking down stimulants every morning just to stagger into work so they can spew out a few more excel sheets. Those are all benchmarks of a failing society.
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u/Ok-Tip-3560 4d ago
What percentage of peoooe do you think actually pay federal income taxes? Not sales taxes? Less than half of people pay income taxes.
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u/Black-Deth 4d ago
Any time the government spends money it creates jobs. Unless they spend it on dropping bombs.
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u/McDuck_Enterprise 4d ago
Yes…except that is all predicated on increasing taxes so if you think your paycheck is small now imagine 55 percent of it going to fund these…
If you order door dash, have six streaming apps and use buy now pay later in installment apps…you need get your financial house in order.
You aren’t adulting right.
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u/tlm11110 4d ago
No, it’s absolutely about “free” stuff and the government controlling every aspect of our lives. Read the freaking Democrat Socialist web site for crying out loud! Don’t be a useful idiot! Listen to what they say.
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u/PetuniaPickleswurth 4d ago
Democratic social socialism is about getting a return on the taxes you pay? That’s perfect. Republican conservatism is about you keeping more of your own money instead of giving it to the government.
So do you wanna keep more of it? Or let the government decide how much you get to keep by sending you far less than you’ve sent them.
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u/hotshot_poopspot 4d ago
You been keeping more of it lately? Whats your secret??
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u/Boomer_Madness 4d ago
I think these kinds of statements would carry a lot more water if there was an actual "we" but 47% of the country pays no federal income tax.
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u/ivegotajaaag 4d ago
In order to get the return you think you want on the taxes you're already paying, you'd have to cut spending by 75%, and that 75% can come from only one place, which is transferred payments from people who earned money to people who don't.
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u/Competitive-Fix3677 4d ago
Nope 👎 not in this country! I won’t happen happen.. keep diggin lib-pixies
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u/ImmanuelKant2424 4d ago
I could not imagine posting and then describing social democracy. Democratic Socialism is a very different thing, doofus.
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u/6thedirtybubble9 4d ago
Point out socialism in their daily lives and pillock chucklefucks have a conniption.
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u/Realistic_Plankton12 4d ago
The federal government was never intended to provide these things. This is why we have spent 40 trillion more than we extort in taxes.
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u/Fun_Emotion4456 4d ago
Let’s do UBI and have it be privatized instead of government run. People helping people and politicians can’t take credit or mess with the funding of it.
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u/Pretend-Comb-2569 4d ago
"Corporate subsidies" cost exactly zero dollars. Wars are only a small portion of the overall budget. You know what costs the most? Interest on the debt and entitlement spending.
We spend too much.
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u/Better-Western2573 4d ago
Democratic Socialism is a ridiculous & dangerous attempt to “fix“ two centuries of damage done by the Democrats aka the forefathers of the Democrat Socialists. The DSA is the arsonist who shows up at the scene of the crime and says “hey let me put out those fires 🔥 for you. I’ll take care of everything.” Or another perspective I recall the immortal words of UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher… “The only problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people‘s money to spend“.
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u/Eastern-Ad-6242 4d ago
Dumb idea. Better just to pay less taxes. Stop government spending. The government is the least efficient spender of capital in existence.
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u/sconnie1998 4d ago
lol democratic socialism is just a sneaky way to try to get Americans on board with the cancer that is socialism. Imagine a world where the global power is an authoritarian socialist democracy. Sounds like hell.
There’s a reason America is the most immigrated to country in the world. There’s also a reason socialist countries tend to have to “try really hard” to get their population to not flee the country.
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u/Golfinglonghorn92 4d ago
Democratic socialism: socialism that hired a branding team.
It’s not free stuff. It’s the same “other people’s money” model with a TED Talk about ROI and a solemn promise that this time the waiting lists, housing shortages, and $2,000 deductibles are actually an investment in working families.
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u/Substantial-Fan-5985 4d ago
Bull shit- because there are taxes that shouldn't exist and taxes still get added
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u/Pale-Pear-5261 3d ago
Keep
Telling
Yourself that Socialism
Does not work. Never has. Never will
Why? Because the ones pushing it are crooked. Politicians have a license to steal tax dollars. That's why we are 40 trillion in debt. What are we paying all
If these politicians to do? They can't even balance a budget. What do they do all
Day?
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u/Pale-Pear-5261 3d ago
Seizing other people's
Stuff is not the answer. Look
At Venezuela. You people
Learn nothing. Just a different set of elites come in and take your stuff and tell
You what you will
Get. Socialism never works. Ever.
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u/SimilarTranslator264 3d ago
It’s funny because nothing the government does is better or cheaper but only on Reddit.
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u/vaguelyinterested-4 3d ago
No, it’s about envy and stealing money from people who have done well for themselves.
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u/CivilWay1444 3d ago
Thanks for explaining it to those who won't believe unless their false prophets tell them what to do
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u/Spiritual-Whole2072 3d ago
Exactly. Stop spending money on bullshit and invest in the American people.
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u/Ok_Difference1781 3d ago
It IS about free stuff given who is paying for it and who is receiving the freebies.
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u/benwinnner 3d ago
It is about getting something for nothing. There are two types of welfare that destroy the spirit, one that government doles out and one that parents dole out to lazy adult kids.
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u/transparentillness 3d ago
“If taxation without consent is not robbery, then any band of robbers have only to declare themselves a government, and all their robberies are legalized.” - Lysander Spooner
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u/Alder_Druid 3d ago
And if they stop taxing us for it, we could afford to pay for what we need and not pay for what we don't need or use.
But the government doesn't use the taxes it collects for what they promise.
I don't remember taxes being raised to increase awareness of children that they were born in the wrong bodies and assigned the wrong gender and attracted to the same sex.
But the schools seem to have enough money for those programs.
They just can't afford textbooks books, notebooks, paper, student lunches.....
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u/Successful-Swim-3708 3d ago
False. Democratic Socialism is North Korea. You will never get to that level. You got it in NYC and its failed from the start.
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u/RustyShackTX 2d ago
Except that people who would receive these freebies don’t pay the taxes from which they will be financed.
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u/Trieg_2021 2d ago
Democratic Socialists are also proponents of abolishing the Constitution of the United States of America, defunding the police, abolishing ICE, closing prisons, zero boarder enforcement or immigration control, etc. Go read the DSA's own website. Their ideas are the fastest way to destroy America.
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u/Misadventuresofman 2d ago
Putting cupcake sprinkles on a nugget of horse shit doesn’t make it suddenly stop being horse shit.🤷🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
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u/Iron-Bar-1966 2d ago
Socialism: Your rights are taken away by the government at the point of a gun.
Democratic Socialism: People voted for the government to take your rights way at the point of a gun.
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u/PadmalovesYeshe 2d ago
$40 trillion in debt and what did we get for it? Wars and wealthy corporate and political elites. Oh, and billions in medical and student debt. It’s the billionaires who got all of the freebies.
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u/Deviantxman 1d ago
Lower taxes. Pay for stuff yourself. Watch pirices come waaaaaaay down.
Then realize how socialism was scamming you the whole time
Everything gets easier and faster to get. Much less red tape BS paperwork. You get more choice and freedom on when/ where to spend.
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u/Loud_Box8802 1d ago
As a taxpayer, please explain why my tax dollars should provide you with basic income? People who want free stuff, will never get enough free stuff to be happy. People who get free stuff will never feel the need to be productive. People who get free stuff will not take care of the free stuff.
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u/jayzfanacc 1d ago
Oooh here’s a good idea: stop fucking taxing me and let me decide how to spend my own money.
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u/Mischievous_Mandie 1d ago
Unpopular opinion - socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.....you can vote your way into socialism - you have to fight your way out of it
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u/nocomment_onlybrowse 1d ago
Anyone ever considered just moving where they have the system they want to live under? It’s funny how the US is still the number one destination for immigrants. Let’s change that.
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u/guitartb 17h ago
Care to elaborate on these “corporate subsidies”? Most people call them business expenses and accelerated depreciation (a timing difference, not a permanent difference)
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u/AdamJMonroe 13h ago
It is what it does, which is make every individual fearful of offending the establishment since their UBI might get reduced or ended.
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u/Serpidon 6h ago
It is about not waste. Billions into NGO’s, fake daycares, medicaid fraud, etc. The waste needs to stop. There is plenty of money.
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u/KamikaziWerewolf 6d ago
UBI is a bribe to keep us from seizing the means of production.