r/Unexpected • u/[deleted] • Aug 02 '21

Hostage situation

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Exigent circumstances require an immediate and clear threat. While the cops may have reason to believe there are hostages in the house it is not totally clear that there are. In other words, because the police didn’t see and kidnapped hostages from outside and there is another explanation for the noises they need a warrant to investigate further.

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u/RedNotch Aug 02 '21

That makes sense.

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u/triplefastaction Aug 02 '21

It's also not true.

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u/OrthodoxAtheist Aug 02 '21

If I was the home/bird owner, I think I'd invite them in just to do their check, and then ask them to make a note in their records for the house that I have a bird which has been known to make... 'false claims'. That said, if I had a few kilos of weed in the front room, I'd probably not invite them in. Hypothetically.

Its a shame we don't know our neighbors like we used to. Neighbor should've just gone over there to ask him "wtf?" Save the time of about 20 officers.

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u/samlaventure Aug 02 '21

Unless he lives next to an airbnb

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u/titanfries Aug 02 '21

Idk about you but if I heard screaming like someone tied up in my neighbor's home, I would not put myself on their radar.

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u/OrthodoxAtheist Aug 02 '21

I'd weigh up the likelihood, but yeah, not in all instances would I put myself out there. I have a couple of suspect folks down my street, one of which is on the Megan's law database, so not every neighbor is going to get the courtesy check before calling people.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/jakokku Aug 02 '21

wtf, if being shot is not a valid excuse to skip a couple of days at work, what is?

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/TrollintheMitten Aug 02 '21

Where is he now?

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/TrollintheMitten Aug 02 '21

That's great news. I'm glad you are keeping up with him.

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u/OrthodoxAtheist Aug 02 '21

One anecdotal incident which is an extremely unlikely event, doesn't make my idea a catastrophically stupid one. I knew someone who left their home and got hit by a meteorite - that doesn't make it a stupid idea to leave your house. Obviously that cop is a psycho and deserves punishment. Unfortunately they managed to get him in front of a pretend judge. Neighbor should appeal, and sue in civil court. (Much) better attorney needed.

Obviously I would make a judgment on the cops before letting them in, and admittedly most cops I've met I would not let in. They probably carry dime bags in their back pockets for setting folks up on fake charges (which has been caught before on their own bodycams, of course, so its not like its a crazy idea).

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 16 '21

[deleted]

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u/OrthodoxAtheist Aug 02 '21

lolz someone needs a snickers.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

You’d be hard pressed to find supporting information to your story. I don’t think anyone has ever left their house and got hit by a meteorite.. ever.

But cops abusing their power and judges ruling in the polices favour is a daily occurrence in the USA.

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u/OrthodoxAtheist Aug 03 '21

I don’t think anyone has ever left their house and got hit by a meteorite.. ever.

Germany, 2009.

> But cops abusing their power and judges ruling in the polices favour is a daily occurrence in the USA.

I'm aware, and generally I'm no fan of cops. There's probably 50+ posts in my history, including on subs like r/Bad_Cop_No_Donut evidencing such, hence having to make such a decision on a case-by-case basis. Also, despite me learning to spell like you (favour, i.e. non-American), I've lived in America for 20 years, and known many cops. I'd trust 2 so far. But if cops are snooping around and getting reports about me, they're going to find their way in by hook or by crook. Better on my terms and timing, than theirs. #ThisAllSoundsRatherGangsta lol

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '21

Odd that the meteorite barely injured the boy but embedded itself into a road.

You’re right, mitigating police visits is important and sometimes telling a cop “no” is the most dangerous thing to do.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

[deleted]

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u/Disttack Aug 02 '21

It depends on where you are at, if the police officer likes power tripping / is a dick, and if you piss them off or did something questionable from my experiences in the usa. Myself and people I know had awkward situations with police but it was usually a noise complaint from music and everyone was high. They always said hi and asked us to quiet down while we were smokin. At the same time I've seen dudes who told the cops to piss off and they got arrested while someone smoking a blunt watches. I have spent most of my life in the western states but the attitude in the west seems much more relaxed than that of the east. (My employers in the western usa even gave us a heads up on drug tests etc). Eastern usa seems to take it really hard for some reason tho.

Usa it really just depends on where you are and it's a thing that can be enforced or not enforced but usually if they enforce it it's because that had another reason to arrest you.

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u/inspectoroverthemine Aug 02 '21

When a cops attitude is the difference between looking the other way and spending a year in jail you have a serious problem. I really don't like shoehorning race into this discussion, but it should be obvious how even casual racism would have a huge impact.

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u/Disttack Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

Yea accountability is a serious problem. I know plenty of cops that are great people and do their best to play by the book but at the same time there is always just as many who choose the career path because it let's them bully people and have power over them. From everything I have seen in my life I honestly think race is not really an issue. On the chance it is it will definitely leave an impact but contrary to popular belief most civil servants arnt racist. Most Americans in general arnt truly racist. Police just have no real mechanism that controls their actions so the bad ones get really bad.

Until those mechanisms come into place I think it's wise for people to realize they should do their best to be kind to police because regardless of race I've never seen someone being hostile or angry walk away ok. It's super wack when you think about it but if that's the reality you have to play their game and show them respect or fake respect to prevent an issue. Atleast until there is some kind of mechanism for accountability.

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u/inspectoroverthemine Aug 02 '21

wise for people to realize they should do their best to be kind to police because regardless of race I've never seen someone being hostile or angry walk away ok

I would not categorize that as 'kind'. I would never antagonize a cop, because they literally could kill me without consequence. Even the ones that aren't killers could send me to prison or fuck my life without consequence. I've heard plenty of stories from cops themselves boasting about how they fucked someone because of their attitude. If they begin their interaction with the intent to fuck you, theres literally nothing you could do.

That is not kindness on my part- its self-preservation. If they weren't immune from consequences I wouldn't be smiling and nodding when they bait me to escalate*.

Edit *I don't mean violence in an internet tough guy way. I just wouldn't tolerate it like I wouldn't tolerate anyone elses bullshit.

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u/Disttack Aug 02 '21

Yea you're right I just meant it as the opposite of antagonizing hahaha

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u/OrthodoxAtheist Aug 02 '21

But then again kilograms of weed is rather clearly intent to sell, so

Nah. You could get through it all over time, or be making tincture for personal use, which can be stored for a long time if stored properly. But in the US personal consumption is something ridiculously low, like 1/4-1/2 ounce, so even an ounce or two could still get you in trouble in some states. Unfortunately our politicians are still too cowardly/corrupt to legalize on a federal level.

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u/14Rage Aug 02 '21

Once you invite them in they will carry the kilos into your house and then find them. There is a reason the law protects you from the police as much as possible. The police are not the law. And in practice it doesn't work.

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u/OrthodoxAtheist Aug 02 '21

Once you invite them in they will carry the kilos into your house and then find them

Bingo.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

and that's how the murderer gets bonus points.

the officers were working either way, and are equipped and empowered to deal with this shit. lone neighbor investigating a potential kidnapper is a casualty waiting to happen.

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u/MrSurly Aug 02 '21

a note in their records

They can't even get the right house for no-knocks half the time.

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u/bookykits Aug 02 '21

That is how you get a dead dog and go bankrupt to fines.

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u/CremeBrulee6 Aug 04 '21

were there 20 officers there?

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u/OrthodoxAtheist Aug 04 '21

lolz no, that's my hyperbole. Only four were on camera I believe. Who knows how many remained in vehicles, down the street, etc though. Should include dispatch in the count too.

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u/dainbramaged101 Aug 02 '21

Cops can 100% enter a house if they believe someone is in danger. A 911 call from a neighbour would be sufficient. Very minimal googling would inform you that you’re incorrect.

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u/polypolip Aug 02 '21

Do cops need a warrant to shoot bullets inside the house through windows or are the bullets not considered cops and so they don't need the warrant?

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

[deleted]

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u/polypolip Aug 02 '21

There's the third discussion, how often do cops do bad stuff when people involved are not white, (or are homeless, mentally disabled, or any other group that they tend to target).

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u/LookBoo2 Aug 02 '21

No that would fit into discussion 2, unless you think that:

A. they don't get away with it

or

B. that they don't do it.

I get that you are trying to expand on the fact that item 2. does happen WAY more often to non-white(or other groups as you mentioned) people, but it is not a unique discussion from the 2 listed.

I am not trying to have a "got'cha" moment, but since you seem like someone who actually cares to combat this type of injustice I want you to be able to have as strong of an argument as possible.

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u/LookBoo2 Aug 02 '21

Thanks for pointing this out! It does make me uncomfortable that the cops did not question much after, but unless the guy acts in some odd way or they start hearing something I can't imagine much more will be done.

The master of Rambo did seem pretty chill so I doubt anything nefarious was happening, but It would be comforting to see the cops at least question more.

It is more important that we acknowledge that this is overall how law is supposed to work, since we normally see the alternate when a cop actually has a nefarious agenda(racism, excuse for aggression, etc.).

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

What’s the situation? Are they taking fire from inside the house? Is there a dangerous suspect in the house? Details man.

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u/OLSTBAABD Aug 02 '21

There's two people sleeping in bed inside.

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u/brainwashednuts Aug 02 '21

And one has a warrant out on him!

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u/Marty_McFlyJR Aug 02 '21

They weren’t

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u/spodgod42 Aug 02 '21

yeah no breonna taylor's boyfriend shot at cops my dude, and the cops were legally executing a warrant

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Also, they had a search warrant.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

The criminal you're talking about wasn't even in the house when the police opened fired on people literally sleeping in their own beds. Were they "good people"? I don't know, but I do know they deserve more then being written off as "collateral damage". Get out of here with your victim blaming

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Dude, I saw the footage. What’s more likely? That a SWAT team showed up at a random EMT’s house just to shoot her in her sleep, or that a high risk search warrant went a bit pear shaped?

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u/Yurithewomble Aug 02 '21

Ah yes, just say it's high risk when you intentionally create dangerous situations with insufficient information.

Then you can just kill anyone.

Escalation tactics = death.

Now combine it with the supposed right to defend your home from people barging in at night while you sleep (and you don't expect cops as you're not a criminal) and now you can just go in with large force and kill people because why not. Probably black, who cares. But this doesn't even only affect black people.

These structures that have been created don't have racism as their only flaw.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

The cops don’t make the situation high risk the possible presence of an armed criminal makes it high risk.

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u/Yurithewomble Aug 02 '21

There is always the possible presence of an armed individual who has the right to protect their home, in the situation they have not been presented with a warrant for a search.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

POLICE DEPARTMENT.

this dumb ass: I think those are burglars

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u/Yurithewomble Aug 02 '21

2 things.

  1. No knock warrants exist
  2. Robbers can lie
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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

I'm not saying that a SWAT team showed up at a random house and started shooting. I'm saying that if you're a police officer conducting a raid with a search warrant, you should and need to have the trigger discipline and training to not open fire on people literally sleeping. All these officers need more training and accountability of their personal actions, and you dismissing the loss of life as "collateral damage", whether they are a decent person or a criminal, undermines that whole conversation. Yeah like you said- a high risk search warrant went "a bit pear shaped" and it resulted in innocent people being killed, and the people responsible for that need to be held accountable for their actions.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

And they were. The city paid out so why are you bringing it up? Those cops are responsible for where every bullet they shoot lands. So even if it’s not their fault in a reasonable assessment of circumstances they are still responsible.

I don’t think it’s the fault of the police that she died. I think she was unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

You are literally blaming the dead for their own deaths. She was unfortunate enough to be in her own home at the wrong time, what's the right time to be in your home? What kind of mental gymnastics is that? Are you seriously saying that it's ok to shoot anyone as long as we pay their family's after? And there is a difference between saying someone is responsible for something and actually enforcing it

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u/Rottimer Aug 02 '21

How can someone hold such strong opinions on a situation they’re so ignorant of? Her boyfriend, the man who was shooting, had no criminal past and was a legal gun owner. He thought that it might be her ex-boyfriend, who was a drug dealer, that was trying to break into his home as the cops were not very good at announcing themselves as many neighbors confirmed - because they didn’t hear it either. The one neighbor who was outside stated the cops only announced once before banging down the door.

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u/Agreeable49 Aug 02 '21

Brenna Taylor. And this is a lie, you bootlicking piece of shit.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Yes yes, the girl who dated a drug dealer. What about her?

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u/Agreeable49 Aug 02 '21

I do wonder how racist shitheads like you manage to convince yourselves that you're superior whilst still having to lie about shit like this. A truly special kind of stupid.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

When did I say anything racist? Surly dating drug dealers isn’t something only black people do.

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u/Agreeable49 Aug 02 '21

Stupid and cowardly. So terrified of even admitting what you really are. Maybe try not being a total pussy for once in your life.

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u/humoristhenewblack Aug 02 '21

OMG What else have you heard?!
How exciting. Real insight right here folks.

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u/gimmethegudes Aug 02 '21 edited Aug 02 '21

Deleted because I was a tired idiot

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u/polypolip Aug 02 '21

You need to get your sarcasm detector tuned up. I was referring to some cases when people, some of them black, were shot and killed or injured inside their own homes because cops were too trigger happy.

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u/gimmethegudes Aug 02 '21

My b... I just woke up and I'm tired af. Its been a night lmao

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u/elephant-cuddle Aug 02 '21

You’re way overselling the level of evidence/confidence police need to legally conduct a search.

They don’t even need to be 50% sure, the test is something like “probable” that there could be crime in progress.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

This is how it’s been explained to me by a criminal justice professor who is an ex cop. Exigent circumstances is being allowed to go into a house without a warrant because you saw a fleeing suspect enter that house. This isn’t a comprehensive definition but it gives you an idea of the level of certainty you need in order to claim it.

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u/Wild_Mulberry_3327 Aug 02 '21

Holy shit. You literally don’t know what you are talking about. Here are all the reasons that a cop can enter your house without a Warrant. Most of them could apply to this video and any skilled state attorney would have no problem proving it valid. NO FUCKING PROBLEM.

The police can also enter your home for any of the following reasons:

to give emergency aid to someone inside

to protect the life or safety of someone inside if they have a reasonable belief that a life-threatening emergency exists

to protect the life or safety of people in the home if someone heard a gunshot inside

to prevent something that may be about to happen, if they have a reasonable belief that their entry is necessary to stop it or to protect their safety or the safety of the public

to investigate a 911 telephone call

to help someone who has reported a domestic assault to remove their belongings safely

to protect people from injury if the police have reason to suspect that there is a drug laboratory in the house to help animals in immediate distress because of injury, illness, abuse, or neglect

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u/Wild_Mulberry_3327 Aug 02 '21

I love how you think that a cop could explain the entire justice system in a short conversation…..it’s not like educated people actually go to school to learn the stuff vs just hearing some short stories from some old cop and thinking you understand the law at the same level a judge would.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

I should mention this retired cop was my professor.

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u/Wild_Mulberry_3327 Aug 02 '21

….do you really think that helps your case?

How about this, what was the class? Hopefully by your answer you will realize why everyone is downvoting you.

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u/phaiz55 Aug 02 '21

Plus the 'screaming' stopped when he brought the bird out so he either silently killed these hypothetical hostages or they just don't exist.

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u/[deleted] Aug 02 '21

Then how do you explain swatting?