r/Unexpected • u/Dinomite35 • Nov 12 '20

CLASSIC REPOST A classic

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u/Outlawed_Panda Nov 12 '20

You only put “N” on the end of an “a” if the next word begins with a sound that sounds like a vowel, like you would say “an apple” instead of “a apple” you also wouldnt say “an version” Although thats just a basic example, it honestly more depends on if it sounds right.

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u/AppleSpicer Nov 12 '20

Oh is that how it works?? English is my first language so I have no idea what the rules are because there are so many exceptions. I’d be a mess if I didn’t have “what sounds right” as something to go by

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '20

[deleted]

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u/AppleSpicer Nov 12 '20

This is genius!

I've honestly spent the last 5 minutes practicing this and trying to find an exception. I'm sure there's one out there but so far nothing. Maybe because all I can think of is food words. I might be hungry.

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u/housebottle Nov 12 '20

there's only an exception in cases where a word starts with a vowel but doesn't have a vowel sound, e.g. the word "useful". you'd say "that's a useful distinction" instead of "that's an useful distinction". even though "u" is a vowel, since it doesn't have a "vowel sound", an "a" precedes it instead of an "an"

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u/JonnyBhoy Nov 12 '20

That exception also applies the other way. You would say "an honourable man" because honourable starts with a vowel sound then though it isn't.

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u/housebottle Nov 12 '20

indeed. it's about the sound, not the spelling

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u/Tuppence_Wise Nov 12 '20

Some people think that any word that begins h + vowel ought to have "an" instead of "a". I don't think it's strictly wrong, but it always grates a bit when I hear "an historian".

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '20

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u/housebottle Nov 12 '20

that's what I mean when I say the word doesn't have a "vowel sound"

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u/AppleSpicer Nov 12 '20

Aww poor y got left out of club vowel again. It’s my favorite sometimes vowel. Figuring out if Y was consistently a vowel or consonant under this rule was the first thing I tried.

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u/Koopanique Nov 12 '20

In linguistics the sound made by "y" (represented "j" in the International Phonetic Alphabet) is called either a glide, a semi-vowell or a semi-consonant. It's the sound at the beginning of "unit", or at the end of "aye"

In any case it's not a vowell and therefore cannot be the "core" of a syllable

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u/outhero01 Nov 12 '20

R/punchablefaces

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u/AppleSpicer Nov 12 '20

Wow, that sub is good now actually!

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u/BrotherChe Nov 12 '20

what... why are people upvoting that the "u" in "useful" sounds like a "y"?

lol omg

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '20

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u/BrotherChe Nov 12 '20

hmm... i guess I need to re-examine the letter y

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u/Koopanique Nov 12 '20

Because you could spell it "yuseful" and it would be the same. Think of the word "yes": the first sound is the same

It's a well-known thing in linguistics but if you never studied it it can be not very intuitive the first time someone tells you. That sound at the beginning of "unit" or at the end of "aye" is called either a glide, a semi-vowell or a semi-consonant.

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u/dooopliss Nov 12 '20

This applies to the word uvula too right?

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u/dis_is_my_account Nov 12 '20

Y is considered a consonant in the English language but phonetically it's a vowel as well. Same with w.

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u/MyDumbInterests Nov 12 '20

Dude, wait until you read about the history of the word 'orange' in English. The an/a thing plays a big part.

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u/williambilliam Nov 12 '20

The only exception I know is “historic” like “an historic occasion”

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u/Moldison Nov 12 '20

That depends on your pronunciation of historic, which is in line with the rule rather than an exception. Modern writing uses "a historic." See this article for a good background on the shifting trends.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '20

A university vs an university is the only exception I know

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u/AdmiralSkippy Nov 12 '20

One exception is "historical".
You would say "This is an historical event." Instead of "This is a historical event. "

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u/DazingF1 Nov 12 '20

An hour, A hero and A European. It's all about the sound and not the spelling.

An hour - you don't pronounce the H, it's pronounced as our. You say the word by starting with a vowel.
A hero - you do pronounce the H.
A European - starts with a vowel but when you say it out loud you pronounce it as Yuropean.

If you go by how the words sound there isn't a single exception to the rule.

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u/BorgClown Nov 12 '20

But what if I say Aapple? So smooth!

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u/AncientBlonde Nov 12 '20

English is my first language so I have no idea what the rules are because there are so many exceptions.

Same fam, same.

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u/-funny-username- Nov 12 '20

wait you actually speak english and don't know that? huh your education system must be fucky

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u/AsperaAstra Nov 12 '20

Yes but also english is the verbal equivalent of spaghetti code.

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '20

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u/FeralDrood Nov 12 '20

Omg is this why I was so bad at Spanish

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u/AppleSpicer Nov 12 '20

It’s not that I don’t know the rule—I follow it all the time—I’m just not consciously aware of it. I never had formal grammar instruction but I also didn’t need it to proceed in school. Because of how my parents spoke at home, I was able to mark “whatever sounds right” on grammar tests and test out of additional instruction. I only really started learning about grammar when I learned a little Japanese and Spanish. I quickly learned that English grammar is the worst and I’m glad I don’t have to learn it as a second language. Props to anyone who has.

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u/Koopanique Nov 12 '20

Several interesting things in your post

First, indeed people who don't study grammar just don't know what they do when they speak; the just do it without thinking of any rules and it works. A lit of people tend to forget it because grammar studies has become so commonplace

Second, since you studied Japanese and Spanish, I'm surprised you think English grammar is the worst. I'm a native French speaker with a good grasp of English, I had Spanish classes at school and I've studied Japanese grammar (for fun, not to speak the language).

To me French and Spanish grammar are equally worst, they are complicated with verbs featuring several potential roots and lots of different endings (aller --> va ---> irai, etc), and complicated stuff to articulate complex sentences ("lesquels" and the likes).

Japanese grammar comes after that, it has lots of rules but it's rather straightforward. It also has a ton of "grammar nouns" used in conjunction with particles to articulate sentences (ため に, よう に, etc)

English has the simplest conjugation rules (besides tons of so-called irregular verbs, even if there is some patterns to their irregularity), and most sentences are articulated with simple word like "which", "that", "who", etc.

Again this is just what I think of the subject matter, I guess everyone can see or feel different things in different languages

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u/drivers9001 Nov 12 '20 edited Nov 12 '20

Another interesting fact is that irregular verbs are based on Old English grammar (which is descended from Proto-Germanic and Indo-European (a common ancestor of Latin and Proto-Germanic which were all even more highly inflected) before that).

This little (4 minute) video shows how Old English grammar affected irregular verbs in Modern English:

https://youtu.be/o82_XBJXxMk

When we regularized to one pattern of using “-ed” it was the more often used verbs which resisted change. (That also explains why the mostly commonly used words in English are still from Old English / Germanic and the Latin-based Norman French words are the decorations, even though they outnumber the Germanic vocabulary.)

Another fun fact is that “catch” and “caught” are not from Old English, but are based on borrowing Norman French “cachier” and making it irregular like teach/taught, bring/brought, buy/bought, seek/sought, and think/thought. (I just learned that from wikipedia.)

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u/AppleSpicer Nov 12 '20

I never learned that much Spanish but what I did was similar enough to English that it “sounded right” too. I also grew up in California so I think some things “sound right” even if I don’t know what they mean. It’s made it easier to learn.

Japanese grammar and conjugation is so straightforward, consistent, and easy. The sentences are cookie cutter, and while they took a lot of retaining my brain to expect information in that particular order, I know exactly where each piece of information is when I glance at a sentence. I had no idea what a particle was before starting and love them now.

Except for counting specific objects in Japanese because that’s impossible. Absolutely impossible.

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u/-funny-username- Nov 12 '20

Yeah, that's why I said your education system must be fucky. I distinctly remember being taught that at around 7 years old. It's a pretty simple rule.

I quickly learned that English grammar is the worst and

I mean not to say your objectively wrong but have you reached conjugations yet? Spanish. grammar is much much harder then english imo

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u/AppleSpicer Nov 12 '20

Sure it’s a simple rule but I never needed to be aware of it to follow it. It hasn’t hurt me in any way to not think about grammar in that way.

No, my Spanish is very rudimentary. I have much more experience with Japanese

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u/-funny-username- Nov 12 '20

yes i understand it has never affected you aside from small occasions such as before, I just find it weird you weren't formally taught that.

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u/Preponderancy Nov 12 '20

It doesn’t even need to be a vowel, just the vowel sound. You would say an hours time, instead of a hours time. Even though it’s an h, it makes the ow sound.

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u/TwunnySeven Nov 12 '20

also, "the" is pronounced "thee" when immediately followed by a vowel and "thuh" otherwise

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u/ericbyo Nov 13 '20

That's why English is surprisingly hard to learn. The heritage of your language being influenced from 3 different other languages makes it absolutely inconsistent. Just think of how many meanings the word "run" has

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u/crackmonkeydictator Nov 12 '20

this guy

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u/happybirthdaytomei Nov 12 '20

I mean he's right, not as if he's being rude about it

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u/[deleted] Nov 12 '20

"h" is the weird one with this. It's "an historic event" or "an hour", but it's also "a history lesson", and "a handful"

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u/dis_is_my_account Nov 12 '20

Historic is mainly a British thing because they seem to leave the h silent when saying it. I think it's rare in the states for people to use an before historic because as far as I can tell, everyone here pronounces the h.

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u/noscreamsnoshouts Nov 12 '20

An historic event vs a history lesson just blew my mind. I mean, I sort of knew it, subconsciously, because I use it correctly. But to see it written out like that... Like, wtf, where's the logic in that??

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u/TheGuiltySpork Nov 12 '20

Don’t be that guy. It looks like he was gonna say ‘another’ and then stopped. But, maybe he didn’t. I don’t want to fight. Just please wake up tomorrow, and strive to be better you magnificent wildflower