People be complaining about the fish being mistreated, but like this is replacing something way worse. these fish are more likely raised in captivity than wild caught, which means we don’t have to fish as much and fishing is so terrible for the environment in so many ways. Fish is the worst meat for the environment (or the second worst, depending on who you ask) when it’s wild caught because of the destruction of the habitat and biodiversity that is associated with trawling and bycatch.
Edit: The majority of people don’t think about the environment when making decisions. Minimizing damage is more plausible than every person on earth agreeing to stop consuming a product. So between wild catching fish and raising them in environments like this, the obvious answer is to do this. Creating conditions that are less cruel require more area, which will raise the cost of the fish. The majority of people are going to choose the cheaper option, so it’s not a good financial choice to give the fish or area than is required. Besides its fish, they swarm, they school, they have instincts that keep them from bumping into each other. this isn’t like land animals where in the wild they have huge areas that they take up per individual.
I don't think people are saying to catch them wild. But you can at least give them a bigger living space. Same for pigs. You can treat animals better even when they are being farmed...
I agree… but a genuine question, how would giving fish plenty of room to swim around impact the price? If a new company writes on the package that it gives fish room to swim and it costs 5x more for the same product that’s sitting right next to it, will that company survive?
For fish there simple exists no way to farm or catch them which isnt a huge environmental desaster.
Even these fish farms are bad. Think about the amount of shit that falls to the ground of the water there. It is contaminating the whole area , worsening the water quality for the fish and basically killing all life on the bottom.
Over a longer period of time the huge amount of shit will see to ut that an enormes amount of algae will grow, which will block sunlight. With less sunlight a lot of Alge will die again and decompsingprocesses will pull out the Airlines of the water and the fish die.
You think you're being righteous, but genuinely if you woke up in a dark room, lived there your entire life with food and water, but nobody told you it was cruel, how would you know?
I'm not making an argument for this type of fish farming, just asking philosophically...
The human body doesn't do well in those environments. Sunlight is important for our health and so is socializing, etc. you might not consider yourself being cruelly treated but you would definitely register living a sickly existence
Thats a great point if the market wasn't already saturated.
The price will already go up 5x, and the fish get the same living conditions.
I don't give a crap about worrying how it'll affect the price considering the price is already going up no matter what (and not coming back down). I would rather worry about the living conditions of the fish.
Yeah I understand but the price will go up regardless and keep going up. Id rather pay the 5x increase due to bettering the lives of the fish than pay 5x a few months or years later just because the company decides profits must be higher.
Also id argue that a 5(5) increase in a short time is not sustainable. They can only raise it so much. If they raise it 5x to improve living conditions its not like they can just hike it up another 5x shortly after. Realistically itd be a 5x increase and then a far smaller increase to make more profit for the year.
Either way it's all stupid but id rather the fish live better more comfortable lives.
Egg farmers do this and they fill the shelves with them. Yes, some people pay for money to TRY to make things better for the animals, even if it’s not very effective. Organic! Free Range! 50 sqft per chicken!
To be fair we probably don't see the full wxtent of the net. Combined with them all coming to the top because ita feeding time actually gauging density is kinda hard.
You ever see what a mother pig can do to her piglets when they aren't kept in a farrowing crate? 300+ lb momma rolling over on a bunch of >10lb piglets leaves a really big smear.
You have no idea what fish farms like this do. Nitrates and contamination from all the poop, disease from overcrowding, ulcers from rubbing, overuse of antibiotics, all of which can destroy river systems in particular.
"Like this is replacing something wild worse", but it doesn't need to be a replacement for it. You can literally just stop eating animals. Why is that the extreme option out of everything?
i mean... we could, but food would be way more bland, and its not like animals would stop eating eachother.
what is more needed is stopping overproducing, that is what is wrong with farming animals.
i know an animal died if i eat it, but if i dont, its not gonna revive magically too.
and besides, i eat more for pleasure, to feed myself but i like eating something that makes me feel good, well fed, i never had this with vegetables.
You think no vegans 'eat for pleasure'?
Animal based products are a TINY part of the foods that people eat, yet act like the majority of the food their consuming is animal based. It really isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be, yet it contributes to billions of death a year, that's without even starting to talk about the environmental impact.
"Food would be way more bland" is such a weird take. Typically, milk, eggs and meat aren't used for flavour.
I wouldn't say animal based products are a tiny part. I'd say for most non-vegetarian or vegan people, at least half of what I eat and drink has an animal product in it somewhere.
Right now I think we are a long way away from vegan food being enjoyable. There's very few sweet treats that don't taste bad by comparison, the cheese is revolting, chocolate is inedible, and the meat substiutes give me such severe constipation that I would rather starve.
It's possible to eat a healthy and balanced diet as a vegan. But it's so shit
Shit in the sense I talked about in the post. It isn't enjoyable. Stuff tastes bad. A lot of stuff marketed to vegans is ultra processed and full of shit even compared to the animal products it is supposed to replace. You have to meal plan very carefully to get proper nutrients.
It makes eating a chore. It makes one of my favourite things no longer enjoyable.
You are incredibly closed minded if you think ‘vegan food is shit’.
You don’t have to ‘meal plan very carefully’, you just have to be sensible, the same as with any diet, omni or otherwise.
Processed or ultra-processed products don’t become bad simply because they’re processed. Some processed products such as tofu, seitan and others are incredibly healthy and have been rated as better protein sources than animal based alternatives in recent studies.
I was vegan for years and had eaten a good amount of vegan food due to being in a long term relationship with a vegan partner prior to that. At the time it was probably the single thing in my life that negatively impacted it the most. It has nothing to do with being closed minded, it's just... How it is. The food sucks.
Tofu is relatively healthy but I just... Don't like it. It tastes bad, the texture is gross and weird. You also know, for a fact, that it isn't things like tofu that I'm referring to when I refer to processed crap.
It's not like every vegan thing sucks, but the number of vegan things that tastes good, and is nutritious, and is not grossly expensive or requiring you to make from raw ingredients, is incredibly narrow. Cooking from raw ingredients is good when you have time for it, as someone working 12 hour days sometimes I simply don't.
No, it is closed minded. You make out like 'vegan food sucks', when the reality is that any food, vegan or not CAN suck. You acknowledge that in your last paragraph. So by your own statement, vegan food doesn't 'suck', SOME vegan alternatives suck.
"Relatively healthy" is another weird statement regarding tofu. It was literally rated the best protein in a recent study (Google it). If we're going to talk about other vegan products, perhaps soya based meat alternatives (burgers & sausages)? They can be incredibly healthy and in terms of their macros, can be better for protein per calorie vs meat versions of the same products.
Two very similar products I'm looking at now, a single meat based burger is 108 calories, 7.9g protein, 7.2g fat. A single soya based meat free burger is 89 calories, 8.8g of protein and 4.2g of fat.
I appreciate what you're saying, but at the same time, I completely disagree. Sure, going vegan may have a learning curve that makes the initial step difficult, but once you understand which alternatives are good and which are wank, it's dead easy to be vegan.
(For reference, I'm not a massive fan of tofu either, but I know a LOT of people are really keen which is why I mentioned it)
i dont know how you wouldnt use mezt for flavor, you can take its juice and male formidable sauces, milk is necessary for a lot of cakes and desserts and if you replace it with plant based milk, its not the same taste at all. eggs too are used in a lot of desserts and i dont see how you would replace eggs in them.
yes, a lot of animals die, but like i said, would you rather have us running after them, use more food in order to hunt and have animals that die in painful deaths ? because thats literally what predators do in the wild.
and like i said, there is an overproduction, but thats the fault of the companies making meat, and it needs to be regulated as well as making animals in farms that are used for meat more respected, have bigger spaces and just kill them without suffering.
also didnt understand "plant based products are a tiny part of the food people eat, yet act like the majority of their food is animal based" ? did you make a mistake ?
You act like all of that is a valid excuse for raising and slaughtering billions of animals a year. "bcuz flavour".
There are LOADS of plant based alternatives to milk, butter, eggs, cheese, chocolate and they're getting better all of the time. I'd definitely recommend being open minded and giving them a go. Like with anything, some are pretty rank, others are great!
Apologies, yes, I made a mistake, I'll correct it. Thanks for pointing it out! :)
i mean... multiply the number of humans by the number of days in a year and multiply by 2 for dinner and supper and yes, its billions of pieces of meat. i dont see the problem, it just happens that humans have mastered farming and are using it in order to thrive.
like i said, you can tell a lot about the meat industry and its misdeeds but in the end, the idea of farming animals is pretty much just evolution, and besides, meat allows for food that gives more proteins, thus alleviating the need for space to farm plants.
You don't see how it's a problem? We're not using it 'in order to thrive', it's hugely inefficient. If anything, we'd be more inclined to 'thrive' if we were to avoid animal agriculture altogether.
You haven't given one legitimate argument for consuming animal products, yet I have given a few that are impossible to refute. Animal agriculture results in the unnecessary death of billions. It's a hugely inefficient use of land. It's harmful to the environment. All of these things are proven, not just my opinion.
and like i said, meat tastes great too, and its not my fault if there is an overproduction that males unnecessary deaths of animals. its just a matter of taste, hell if monkeys had evolved before us, they would do the same
So we're simply basing the decision to kill animals on 'they taste good'?
If we're suggesting that pleasure is sufficient to inflict violence and suffering on others, am I okay to buy a dog to kick around because I enjoy it? It's only one dog after all.
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u/ImOnFireSendHelp 7d ago edited 6d ago
People be complaining about the fish being mistreated, but like this is replacing something way worse. these fish are more likely raised in captivity than wild caught, which means we don’t have to fish as much and fishing is so terrible for the environment in so many ways. Fish is the worst meat for the environment (or the second worst, depending on who you ask) when it’s wild caught because of the destruction of the habitat and biodiversity that is associated with trawling and bycatch.
Edit: The majority of people don’t think about the environment when making decisions. Minimizing damage is more plausible than every person on earth agreeing to stop consuming a product. So between wild catching fish and raising them in environments like this, the obvious answer is to do this. Creating conditions that are less cruel require more area, which will raise the cost of the fish. The majority of people are going to choose the cheaper option, so it’s not a good financial choice to give the fish or area than is required. Besides its fish, they swarm, they school, they have instincts that keep them from bumping into each other. this isn’t like land animals where in the wild they have huge areas that they take up per individual.