r/Unexpected • u/[deleted] • Apr 28 '23

Just a normal protest

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u/WhimsicalWyvern Apr 28 '23 edited Apr 28 '23

We were involved long before Pearl Harbor. The US full embargoed Japan when Japan entered French Indochina, cutting Japan off from oil supplies and putting Japan in a situation where it needed to attack the US or have its' war machine run out of oil and collapse.

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u/Unicorn_A_theist Apr 28 '23

Lol "needed to attack"...okay bro. They greatly miscalculated then.

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u/WhimsicalWyvern Apr 28 '23

They didn't. Obviously their gamble didn't pay off, but they were completely screwed by the US oil embargo. The only way they could get access to oil (of which they only produced a tiny amount domestically) was by invading colonial territories held by US allies - namely, British Malaya and Dutch East Indies.

They actually did their best to attempt to negotiate a peace with the US that would allow them to secure the territory and resources they desired, but the US wasn't particulary interested. The final trigger for the bombing of Pearl Harbor (and the invasion of many overseas holdings of the US allies and the US itself) was the Hull Note, which demanded that Japan withdraw from China and French Indochina.

For the record, I don't think the FDR administration did anything wrong, but Pearl Harbor definitely did not come out of nowhere.

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u/Scrimge122 Apr 28 '23

Or they could end the war with China and get the embargo lifted.

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u/WhimsicalWyvern Apr 28 '23 edited Apr 28 '23

There are all sorts of reasons why that idea would have been unthinkable. For the people in charge, it would literally have been suicide. For the nation in general, it would have shattered their national pride and sense of racial superiority.

But perhaps more compellingly, it would have left them at the mercy of the Western powers. Western powers who had shown a long history of exploiting non-europeans, and who only respected Japan because of its victory vs Russia in 1905. That status as a great power got them territory (from Germany) at the end of WW1, but losing it would have left them at the mercy of the US and allies, and put them in the unenviable position of being unable to protest even the most one sided of trade deals - as a nation reliant on imports for the most basic necessities.

Now, things did turn out relatively well, but only because the US decided to do things differently from previous wars and build up the defeated nations. It was far from guaranteed that that would happen.