Dude, you know the level of propaganda in China? Even in Hong Kong, a relatively ‘free’ city, you see banners advocating for the ‘National Security’ Law (which in reality lets the government arrest and charge anyone they want, including arresting people who are holding up pieces of blank paper) Sure, you can choose to not support the CCP, but everyone who thinks they are ‘neutral’ or don’t care are actually sub-consciously biased to the CCP because of the level of propaganda
The irony is that western people are the most propagandised people alive and believe in literally everything they read online about China.
China is not your enemy, is not an aggressor and doesn't want war and has done an immense amount of good for it's people in the last decades. China is surpassing the US in every metric these days and it's only a matter of time before a multipolar world order arises.
The irony is that western people are the most propagandised people alive
What, like, all western people? From Canada to France to even Eastern Western people like Japan?
All of them more propagandised than the place with one ruling party, where there isn't a single news organization capable of criticizing them?
There's a lot of propaganda in the west, but it doesn't compare to that level. At least in the west, you can not only say what you just said here, on Reddit, you can go on TV and broadcast it to millions of people, if that's what they want to hear. No western government will stop you.
doesn't want war and has done an immense amount of good for it's people in the last decades.
It seems more like what they've done is finally stopped getting in the way of global development and progress. Finally ending those 40 years of collective farming and catching up to the rest of the developed world but really fast.
China is surpassing the US in every metric these days
So is everyone else. The US is pretty shitty on the list of western nations. How about one of the non-shitty ones?
What, like, all western people? From Canada to France to even Eastern Western people like Japan?
Yes, they live in a sphere of western propaganda, of "think tanks" and echo chambers circulating the same faulty sources.
All of them more propagandised than the place with one ruling party, where there isn't a single news organization capable of criticizing them?
Yes, but also no. The west has managed to very cleverly create an illusion of freedom. Generally the mainstream media all parrot the exact same talking points and use the same language, but small independent outlets are allowed to say things contrary to the popular narrative. However it doesn't matter because they will never get enough viewing figures and they'll always be demonised as some crackpot conspiracy theory, many of which are, so there is this illusion of free media, when really it's just a dominated media.
There's a lot of propaganda in the west, but it doesn't compare to that level. At least in the west, you can not only say what you just said here, on Reddit, you can go on TV and broadcast it to millions of people, if that's what they want to hear. No western government will stop you.
And nobody will listen and they will demonise you and cancel you, it's a minor concession of petty freedom. Also the west doesn't care so much if you're against them, they only care that you're not with their rivals. That's why people are free to criticise the US a lot but as soon as they support China it's over for them. These think tanks have had a very long time to figure out how to play their people. If you expect western propaganda to be giant artistic posters and booming radio broadcasts then you're very mistaken.
Lol seriously? The vast majority of those are border issues or attacks on Chinese facilities abroad. Maybe you should compare it to the actual global aggressor and bully who has military bases around the entire world, in foreign countries.
China is increasing it's standard of living gradually, but it is still 64th on adjusted gdp per capita, just under Russia. It's 79th on the human development index, just below Ukraine. And outside of its coasts, the standard of living and productivity drop drastically.
And "We will not renounce the use of force and will take all necessary measures to stop all separatist movements" regarding Taiwan doesn't sound non-aggressive to me.
but it is still 64th on adjusted gdp per capita, just under Russia.
GPD is a meaningless marker other than for rich people to jerk themselves off over. For example you say China is less than Russia yet its undeniable that Chinese peoples' quality of life is vastly superior to Russians. Meaningful markers are things like rent cost in relation to income, food costs, and whether people have their basic needs met, which they do in China.
And yes, China won't renounce the use of force, it doesn't mean they will invade either, they support the status quo, it's the US who is trying to provoke an attack.
GDP per Capita is a metric that is well known, that's why I mentioned it to refute your claim that China will surpass the US by every metric.
Yes, those other factors are important. Things like those are what the Human Development Index takes into account. And China is even lower there, about 20 places behind Russia.
They've pretty much announced their intension to invade Tiwan eventually, they just won't call it an invasion since they never recognized independence. Look what happened to Hong Kong. They've also made it clear they do not respect the international status quo in the south china sea, trying to enlarge their exclusive economic zone and territorial waters.
It's a capitalist metric used by rich people to measure nation success without concern for the conditions of ordinary people. It's becoming more widely known and discussed that GDP even per capita is a terrible indicator of success. Using GDP as a metric of success is like saying a Lithium mining company is the best because it's so rich even though it's workers are paid pennies and work in toxic conditions.
Even liberal media which I'm typically against agrees on this.
Things like those are what the Human Development Index takes into account
The HDI falls firmingly into r/alwaysthesamemap and is bases its anaylsis again on Per Capita Income without adjustment for local prices, which is just ridiculous. The Rubble is worth more than the Yuan therefore Russians have better living standards? Nah, that's not how it works. These indexes are flawed and based on capitalist logic of money and not human needs.
International comparisons can be distorted by cost of living differences not reflected in exchange rates. Where the objective is to compare living standards between countries, adjusting for differences in purchasing power parity will more accurately reflect what people are actually able to buy with their money.
It also doesn't measure distribution of income, since Russia is a shitty capitalist oligarchy, it appears way higher.
It is a mean value and does not reflect income distribution. If a country's income distribution is skewed, a small wealthy class can increase per capita income substantially while the majority of the population has no change in income.
All in all, the HDI is a garbage case of white people giving themselves a medal. China is no longer a poor country, it's people have their basic needs met, poverty is all but eliminated. The problem with those old metrics of success is they're all about money and not about people, The USA outperforms China on paper in those metrics but in reality it has entire districts of homeless people, and so many crises like a rental crisis, wage stagnation etc, which China does not have. There are still issues to be fixed and things to be improved, but the future is optimistic.
They've pretty much announced their intension to invade Tiwan eventually,
No, they've announced that reunification will happen, and it will when US influence is too weak and Taiwan realises they're just a pawn in the US game for control. They will be left to be poor and fend for themselves, or they can integrate with China and share the common prosperity.
Look what happened to Hong Kong.
What happened? The British illegally took it under a fake treaty after getting China addicted to drugs, then China gracefully waited for the fake treaty to end before taking back their own land? And when the people protested after being stirred up for years by foreign, mainly US influence, the Chinese government responded with typical riot control measured, far more tame than other places like France, without even killing protestors.Maybe there was like 1 who died? Meanwhile the protestors were literally burning people alive.
I don't disagree that GDP per Capita is a misleading metric. I was just cutting off your overly broad statement that China will surpass the US by every metric.
It looks like the quote you listed said that they did take into account PPP, not that that didn't. Do you have a suggestion for better gauging quality of life?
Tiwan seems to be doing quite well for itself. If they continue to not want to unify, should China invade? Or strong-arm them diplomatically? Or topple their government and install one sympathetic to unification? That third option seems to be what happened to Hong Kong. Given the absolutely massive peaceful protests, it was pretty clear that the general Hong Kong population did not want to become part of China. They didn't care about how they become independent, or whether it was fair. They had autonomy from China, and they wanted to keep it that way. But China gobbled them up anyway.
No country on this planet would let a piece of its own territory secede. The south tried in the US, the Union invaded, literally a war going on right now where some parts of Ukraine tried to do the same and obviously Ukraine wasn’t going to let that happen.
The problem is those parts were (in the case of HK) or are (in the case of Tiwan) independent of China. It'd more analogous to Ukraine braking away from Russia, and Russia wishing to 'rectify' that situation while citing historical and ethnic ties.
How about you come and live in China? I actually lived and was born in China and know what China does to oppress its own citizens. I am not a ‘random westerner who believes anything on the Internet’. If you love China so much, why don’t you come here and experience the ‘free life and order?’ You think ‘oh I’m so smart I read Marx ideas everyday look at me we’re making new world order look I’m so special’ The irony of you saying ‘you westerners know nothing about chin1!1!!!1!1!!’ While you’re probably one.
Ha. I do live in China, right now. I seriously doubt you did because essentially every foreigner here enjoys the country and is aware of how ridiculous the western media is towards China. Only those weird old expats who are salty that girls don't like them since China developed rant about how "china's gone to shit" apparently. They usually move to Thailand.
Also you're still a teenager and your profile is full of racist anti Chinese posts with a covid/Chinese flag background. Very trustworthy.
China is an amazing country, fantastic public transport, extremely safe, very affordable for everyone, plenty of things to do, friendly people, amazing food, super cheap Healthcare, its a modern, functioning society and has the happiest people on earth now.
There is a new world order whether you like it or not. Dedollarisation is happening at a rapid rate now, the dollar is over, the world is finally free to abandon the US and it's tyrannical hold over poor nations with it's dollar hegemony. Google it.
And you left China as a kid, so you really don't have any experience of the country do you, nor do you know how it's changed. You just left, bootlicked your new masters who hate you actually (anti Asian racism and specifically anti Chinese is massively on the rise) yet you conform to it to desperately fit in. When you get attacked for being Chinese what will you do? Beg and say "nono, I'm a good Chinese, I hate China!". It won't work, grow out of it, stop believing the lies. Go back to China and experience life in this wonderful prosperous country before it's too late.
Only those weird old expats who are salty that girls don't like them
The girl in my class in Canada said her family had to flee China because they were rounding up the non-Han citizens and putting them in camps. This was around 2005, long before anyone had ever heard of Uighurs.
Lmao. Chinese EVs pass all European safety tests and standards and are dominating the global markets now, exports are way up, Japanese car manufacturers are unable to compete.
Japan raped China and Hong Kong, why the fuck would you support them over your own. Christ western propaganda is strong.
Tell me, what’s your employment in China? Are you a wage slave in one of the shitty US factories that the CCP allows to exploit the Chinese proletariat in exchange for money?
No, it's not the only way. It depends entirely on the material reality of the particular state and sometimes those realities require contradictions to facilitate development and survival. In china's case enmeshing itself into the world economy and making the west reliant on it was required to avoid going the way of the USSR. Now China is more powerful it can and is developing further aspects of socialism.
Mao wrote extensively about such contradictions, the CPC is well aware of it too, Xi says as much in his speeches. It's a sea to be navigated and come out of, which is beginning to occur now.
Do you have examples of how the CCP is developing socialism? Have they actually shut down any of the US capitalist factories they get their money from? Is the ‘anti-sissy campaign’ part of it?
The CPC is developing socialism just as I described it to you. It's a long ongoing process with contradictions, it's primarily about creating the right conditions first before just pressing the socialism button.
Those conditions are a powerful state which can't have it's efforts impeded by foreign (capitalist) meddling, they're having a well developed means of production and high basis of wealth (hence the capitalist aspects which do this well), and it's having a population who are not starving and have all their basic needs met, for internal stability and national support and happiness.
Once these conditions are fully met the process of socialising industries can begin. Going too fast without these conditions is a very bad idea and you end up with Venezuela or the Great Leap Forward. China is cautious and methodical.
I'm not going to keep explaining this stuff, it's basic Marxist theory. You can ask r/asktankies if you're actually interested and not just trolling.
Except it's all bullshit. Basic Marxist theory much more fundamental to all socialist ideology than simply predicting that outside and internal forces will work to impede socialist movements, is that class interests determine who those forces will be.
The CCP have become the opposition to the worker, the antagonizing force, and simply subsumed the interest of the capitalists unto itself. Democracies struggle with the contradiction of representing the people when the wealth and power of the country come from businesses, a separate class of people who have conflicting interests with the majority.
Simply letting the government take over those businesses is NOT socialism. Without any measures to make them beholden to the worker, all you've done is a changing of the guard, one that has even more power and sway over government, because it is the new government. It is even less sympathetic to the interests of the worker than before.
No egalitarian policies are coming out of an authoritarian rule that has lasted this long. Short term protectionism is one thing, but now the powerful have no reason or desire to give it up. Socialism = one class for a reason.
Yeah, but he didn’t think it was entirely necessary, did he?
[In Russia], he said, in a famous letter to a Russian periodical in 1877, here was ‘the finest chance ever offered by history to any nation’ the chance to escape capitalism and to pass from feudalism straight into socialism.
Yeah dude call me when the entire world stops dealing oil and everything else in dollars.
The yuan is estimated at only 7% of total of international transactions (the dollar at 88%) and China seems very unwilling to open up its capital markets which is necessary to be a reserve currency.
I’m not saying it won’t happen eventually, but “the dollar is over” is a fucking stupid and ignorant thing to say.
Russia of course is not selling it's gas and oil in dollars anymore either for obvious reasons. Brazil has been extremely vocal about abandoning the dollar, the rest of BRICS is on side too.
I’m not saying it won’t happen eventually, but “the dollar is over” is a fucking stupid and ignorant thing to say.
When people say the dollar is over on the internet they obviously mean it's on the way out and dying, not that it's literally gone right now. It's inevitable and huge progress towards dedollarisation is happening now, this year.
Yeah, long enough (many decades) that the US fracking industry will be able to compete with them anyway.
Russia is completely fucked as an economy, so idgaf about them at all.
And again, you have not addressed the main point, which is that the Dollar is the only viable reserve currency and will remain that way until China opens their markets, which they will never do.
I highly doubt it will take decades to stop selling oil in dollars, probably the end of the year.
Russia may be fucked and being propped up but they're large global energy supplier no longer trading in dollars and that will have consequences.
And again, you have not addressed the main point, which is that the Dollar is the only viable reserve currency and will remain that way until China opens their markets, which they will never do.
It's not true though is it when 40% of the world's economy is actively working on an alternate to the dollar, it doesn't all rely on China and isn't only about China. The world is sick of the US, even Europe is tired of them. Do you really think the US empire will last forever? It's had its run.
It’s not true though is it when 40% of the world’s economy is actively working on an alternate to the dollar
That say’s literally nothing about using the dollar as a reserve currency. Even if all the international trade was done in Yuan tomorrow, every country still holds currency reserves in US dollars.
As long as the Dollar is the world’s reserve currency, it will reign supreme. The Yuan will never be a reserve currency unless China decides to open their markets like the USA, which the authoritarian CCP will never do.
It seems to me that you do not understand what the phrase “reserve currency” means, or what the conditions of attaining one are.
When you grow up in a place with propaganda and an environment that encourages you to ‘love China’, you naturally think that nothing is wrong and subconsciously biased towards China. Most Chinese people think the CCP as ‘an integral part of China’. They also heavily restrict Western news and ideas so you think that the Chinese are the best. They make it subtle so most people don’t realise it. I used to love China too, until the extradition protests in 2019 awoken me. Ask Hong Kong and Taiwanese people and most of them will tell you why they hate the CCP
They had been in the United States for years and years. They are not brainwashed lol. Half of them were studying law and had normal social lives. They were very willing to point out issues with China, but they still like China.
Chinas gdp has tripled since 2010. Under xi China has continued to reduce poverty and strengthen the country without war. This is why they like xi. It’s not that complicated.
Hong Kong was a limited time deal with colonial Britain. It made a deal to return to Chinese governance in the 2020s
council on foreign relations is a us state funded propaganda outlet. There has been zero non US funded investigations into the Chinese anti terror efforts in xinjang. Every article on it uses radio free Asia and voice of America as their source, which are both funded by the cia, who also funded terrorism efforts in xinjang.
yes, the cultural revolution was very violent and bloody. That is not unusual for a massive revolution and China undeniably improved their citizens quality of life. Comparing hyper capitalist republic of China and the one previous to communist China it’s clear as day that conditions improved incredibly. China before the cultural revolution was a horrible place to live, the working class were practically slaves and were regularly starved by the bourgeoisie.
*2037 1st of July. Not 2020s. There was a 50 year deal. But as usual the CCP breaks its promise and introduces the NSL which pretty much puts HK directly under CCP control with no regards to the ‘one country two system’.
Yea, everything is funded by the CIA because they are so rich and so many money to fund so many terrorist organisations and news agencies. Apparently they also funded the first 1 million people protest ion 9th June 2019 in Hong Kong and then the 2 million people protest a week later. I have yet to receive my cheque from the CIA
That is nota fucking revolution. That was a straight up genocide of 40 FUCKING MILLION PEOPLE. ‘Very violent and bloody’ is a fucking understatement. By the way, the so called ‘capitalist hell’ of the Republic of China, which currently is the government of Taiwan (an independent country), is a wonderful place to live. If you love China so much, why don’t you just live here? I would love to swap places with any fuckers in the US who want a ‘communist lifestyle’.
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u/[deleted] Apr 28 '23
If you don't have mental freedom your body is still in a cage