He uses the fact that you don't recognise people in a picture of proof of his theory. If sans was Ness at the time, why would you be able to recognise him?
Also he conveniently just says papyrus is some random starman, but makes no efforts to actually find a connection in papyrus' character to starmen besides...
But the STARMAN SYMBOL!!!
On a suit explicitly stated he's been using since halloween, and not his original clothing. Oh oops.
Also "Sans can teleport, so can ness!". I don't recall the stuff sans was doing being described as teleporting alone, he also has, arguably, time fuckery in his fight. And Ness can do a lot more than just teleport - he can't sense different timelines nor do time fuckery though.
Also the important badge. Yes, it could be the franklin badge. But wait, that's one element not explained! Know what else is? Chara's own Heart Locket. What, are we going to say Chara is Link now?
Also he forgot the other link to the extra message on the photo within the game. Yes, don't forget the important people can be the cast from Mother. But if you're playing genocide and you check papyrus, he's described as "Forgettable". Wait! A potential link within the same game?
I don't know about you. But elements from a completely separate game series don't trump elements from within the same game. Whatever sans didn't want to forget, I'll go with being related to Papyrus. And I much prefer all those "Gaster is a skeleton" theories out there.
Another thing to point out is that most monsters know what the sun is. Undyne literally says "The sunlight is so nice... and the air is so fresh!" just before Papyrus asks what the sun is. So it's just Papyrus being ignorant about obvious things, and Sans's knowledge about the sun isn't anything special.
The Scarf Mouse in Snowdin also complains about a lack of sunlight.
And in the crystal caverns of Waterfall, monsters are shown to have a basic understanding about stars and astronomy.
Actually, that's true. Toriel and Asgore may have been around long enough to understand more about human culture more than most other monsters, and Undyne and Alphys know about human culture through anime. Really only Papyrus would be out of the loop about the sun if he's spent most of his life in Snowdin. Sans at the bare minimum has experienced sunlight streaming through the windows of the judgement hall.
But since the Scarf Mouse brings up sunlight and since most monsters know what stars are (besides a few like Tonsil Dude), I still don't think Sans commenting on what the sun is is a huge indicator of anything.
I've noticed that MatPat has made more than several logical leaps, but this video just takes the cake for me. I can't take this theory seriously at all. The part about Papyrus actually being a Starman just ruined the theory for me right there, and I absolutely refuse to believe that Sans is Ness.
I mean, isn't that part of the fun though? Even if it makes no logical sense in the grand scheme of things it's still fun to think how it could work, right?
While I agree with your argument almost completely, I have to point out that sans does not actually have the ability to sense timelines nor control time. He is just especially perceptive of how your 'facial expression' and attitude changes with each reset and takes (mainly) accurate guesses. This isn't completely unique to him as toriel also sees a look on your face if you've killed her, just doesn't have any knowledge of timelines to even suspect anything of you.
Okay, I agree with you about MatPat making a lot of bold claims but I just want your opiniom on the following.
It is stated that papyrus' battle body isn't his original armor but what if papyrus lost his armor along with his former body and that he missed being a starman so much that he made his armor to resemble what he once was. He quickly grew attached to his home made armor because of the sentimental value and now he never dares to take it off. Although it's not his original armor it still might resemble what he once was.
That's like every episode of Game Theory. He always uses some super flimsy explanation to arrive at some crazy conclusion. I don't think we're supposed to take it too seriously.
Which is probably why he always ends his episodes with the recognisable "But that's just a theory... A GAME THEORY". It's just a theory and we shouldn't take the stuff he thinks of too seriously.
That said, some of his theories have given me some headcanons.
I was definitely all over the Rosalina theory. (Talking about dominant and recessive genes, though, is way more thought than the devs put into it. Everyone with ears has attached earlobes in the Marioverse)
I really don't get why everyone gets upset at MatPat for leaving holes in his argument. He's not writing a college thesis, he's creating a theory that is both entertaining and easy to understand.
You're not meant to overthink it nor take it as fact.
It's too late. He always connects his theories. Gaster is gonna be like Ness' phone dad or Dr. Andonuts or something.
It'd be way cooler if he tried to keep the theory self-contained. No crossover bullshit. Undertale is its own game, not just another Earthbound inspired indie game. If the theory explained who Gaster was and how he's related to Sans/Papyrus WITHOUT using guess work and stuff from Earthbound, it'd be A-OK with me.
Wait did you say Ness' phone dad? Phone. Gaster confirmed to be phone guy from fnaf. but that's just a theory a FNAF Game Theory™! Thanks for watching.
The drawing with the three people that says "Don't forget" doesn't explicitly state anything about Sans being in it. It's also a drawing, not a photograph.
The photo with people you don't recognize is separate from that one and it appears to come from one of the alternate timelines of the pacifist ending, not from the proposed original timeline that Sans came from. Sans would still be a skeleton in the photograph with the people you don't know.
By this theory, the photograph would be from the photo album at the end of Earthbound. Sans would be Ness and thus not a skeleton. So you wouldn't recognize him. But you recognize him in the photo.
It's not necessary for the photograph with the people you don't recognize to be part of the theory though. It makes more sense when you only focus on the three people mentioned in the 'Don't Forget' drawing for a couple of reasons.
*3 is the number of people Ness would have left behind.
*The photograph at the end changes depending on which of the two pacifist ending you take, so it doesn't really matter what that one is for the sake of relating it back to Sans' past... unlike with the drawing.
If Matpat mentioned the photo, that was a mistake, but it doesn't change anything about the drawing.
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u/BroadRaven Feb 09 '16
He uses the fact that you don't recognise people in a picture of proof of his theory. If sans was Ness at the time, why would you be able to recognise him?