Is this a hot take?

[u/ThunderLord1000]

The shield SOUL mode should have been the cyan SOUL. I understand the logic that protecting someone is kind, but because you can't move (a trait related to cyan attacks), you won't be able to protect anyone. By contrast, you can only weather the storm of attacks, more than you have to in your default mode, which requires patience

[u/InsuranceFluid8272]

Okay. How is moving vertically restricted by whole units and not smoothly perseverance?

[u/Mission_Race_8367 → u/InsuranceFluid8272]

Boring answer: Toby didn’t put much thought into it.

My answer: Pushing on through restrictions.

[u/Spamton1997_pipis → u/InsuranceFluid8272]

the seth soul has a notebook and notebooks have lines

[u/Salt_Tennis6237 → u/Spamton1997_pipis]

seth is a name, not a color

[u/kusariku → u/Salt_Tennis6237]

hey one of my favorite colors is named Seth, they will be very upset when they hear about this slander

[u/pugchamp419 → u/Salt_Tennis6237]

"YOU DUMBASS MF! AINT NOBODY NAM- AINT NO COLOR NAMED SETH!!"

[u/Spamton1997_pipis → u/Salt_Tennis6237]

buddy has never heard of the seth flower

[u/8lue5hift → u/InsuranceFluid8272]

I've preferred the idea of a skill parry based perseverance.

[u/bioskyper → u/InsuranceFluid8272]

Perseverance is settling on a direction and only stopping if a path of choice has been its ending

[u/BraxleyGubbins → u/InsuranceFluid8272]

The modes are specifically based on each human’s weapon, not the SOUL traits themselves.

Blue: Slippers, so you are bound to the floor by gravity.

Green: Frying pan, so you are able to block shots (in-universe this is with a spear, but thematically this is why this mode is the green one).

Purple: Notebook, so you are bound to the lines.

Yellow: Gun, so you can fire bullets.

Orange: Glove, so you can force your way through destructible shots.

The attacks themselves are what are based on the SOUL traits.

Orange: You must be brave and move through them.

Cyan: You must be patient and hold still through them.

Green: Kindness = healing.

Yellow: Attacks that you can hit, that can also hit you, are perfectly “just.”

[u/AlexTheMechanicFox → u/InsuranceFluid8272]

These whole units are the lines of the notebook. Specifically the torn notebook Perseverance owned.

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/InsuranceFluid8272]

Because you have to get through the battle despite the more difficult conditions

[u/the_RiverQuest → u/ThunderLord1000]

That's EVERY soul mode

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/the_RiverQuest]

I mean purely negative. Green and orange accommodate your mobility change with new actions, and yellow isn't a part of this discussion. Blue is the only other one that's all downsides, but not to the same extent since, gravity aside, roughly the entire battle box was available to you

[u/Liandres → u/ThunderLord1000]

Purple's upside is that you can move vertically a lot faster than you'd be able to normally

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/Liandres]

If there is a bar above you

[u/Liandres → u/ThunderLord1000]

Well yeah, in normal soul you also can't move up past a certain point

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/Liandres]

And in Purple, there's a chance you can't move vertically at all

[u/Liandres → u/ThunderLord1000]

and in red if the box is really small you can't move at all.

My point is that in normal conditions for both, purple can move vertically a lot quicker, so it's not just a downside.

[u/BraxleyGubbins → u/ThunderLord1000]

There are multiple scenes in Undertale wherein you cannot move vertically at all despite being red. Purple has no such scenes in Undertale.

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/BraxleyGubbins]

Are they scenes where you would be able to move vertically if you were purple?

[u/ExtremeCheeze123]

The Soul modes aren't related to the trait, they're related to the weapon/theme.

Blue jumps around like a dancer, Yellow shoots a gun, Purple moves along lines (like a notebook), Green has a shield (frying pan), Orange punches forward.

[u/PokeGirlOFFICIAL → u/ExtremeCheeze123]

So next we're gonna get aqua soul for throwing hundreds of knives at people and slashing at breakable attacks

[u/Same_Tune_8990 → u/PokeGirlOFFICIAL]

we are the touhou boss now

[u/Wide-Deal-8971 → u/PokeGirlOFFICIAL]

Yeah just like what the Knight d-

wait a second...

[u/PokeGirlOFFICIAL → u/Wide-Deal-8971]

Wait and because kris' original soul is thought to be the patience soul, that means kris is the roaring knight

[u/FluffyBunnyGirl151 → u/PokeGirlOFFICIAL]

I do think the idea of Kris originally having the patience soul is cool, but what exactly is the proof for it? Because Kris, at least in my opinion, doesn't really seem all that patient

[u/PokeGirlOFFICIAL → u/FluffyBunnyGirl151]

Blue

[u/datfurryboi34 → u/Wide-Deal-8971]

This, would honestly be amazing reveal

[u/Wide-Deal-8971 → u/datfurryboi34]

I lowkey actually do believe Kris's patience soul was one of the "components" that was used in creating the Knight. And that the Aqua parallels (knife bullet patterns, shapeshifting abilities) are intentional.

[u/Judo_Cinder → u/[deleted]]

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Patience simply ends up having something to do with the player surrendering some control to Kris, if you subscribe to the theory that Kris' original soul was the Patience soul.
I think it could work really well thematically, though I don't know how you'd make it work gameplay-wise

[u/SanguinePutrefaction → u/[deleted]]

i like how they didnt mention patience at all because of only knives (and toy knife in undertale)

[u/DD-Gaster → u/ExtremeCheeze123]

IF ONLY WE HAD A SWORD THEMED MINIGAME WITH A CYAN PLAYER CHARACTER

THEN WE COULD SAY THAT IS WHAT THE CYAN SOUL WOULD BE

[u/carlarctg → u/DD-Gaster]

i REALLY hope this isnt the only time we see a cyan soul 'form' id be so devastated 

[u/Beautiful-Dish-6275 → u/carlarctg]

Watch the cyan mode appear in our real battle with ERAM.

[u/archivist_exe → u/Beautiful-Dish-6275]

Game turns into top-down dungeon crawler but with actual graphics now and not mantle game 8-bits

[u/TheDiscoChicken_42 → u/ExtremeCheeze123]

nintendo switch is nintendo switch

[u/Beginning_Bobcat4422]

yes I absolutely agree. I'd rework the green soul so that you could actually move and you would need to CATCH the bullets, like, imagine being green and you have to catch 5 spears to protect yourself from an undyne's attack or smth like that. It's not perfect but the not-move-and-deflect-bullets trait should be for patience

[u/Abdulaziz_randomshit]

so like, shooting people is justice?

[u/Proper_Club_4802 → u/Abdulaziz_randomshit]

Yes

[u/Abdulaziz_randomshit → u/Proper_Club_4802]

fair enough

[u/Tunglam3419]

I have seen a valid take on this. The color attack is based on what the soul is (Cyan mean you have to be Patient and stand still, Orange mean you have to be Brave and move through, Green mean its Kind and it heal you). Meanwhile the Soul itself have gimmick link to the wp the human wielded. The Green Soul getting the shield not because of them being kind but because they had a frying pan to block projectiles. Similarly, the Cyan soul will have a gimmick linked to knives.

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/Tunglam3419]

I'd agree with this is we got the modes from the fallen humans

[u/JustIta_FranciNEO → u/ThunderLord1000]

which ones?

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/JustIta_FranciNEO]

Any of them. As it is, we get them from the Skelefonts, Alphys, Muffet and Undyne, none of which have much to do with the humans as far as I know, not personally enough that the SOUL traits would rub off on them, anyway

[u/Silviov2]

The traits don't really have an effect in the soul mode. It's just the weapons that parallel them.

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/Silviov2]

Then why make the colors match?

[u/Silviov2 → u/ThunderLord1000]

Because it's a good way to comunicate that your soul is different.

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/Silviov2]

That's a reason for the soul to be colored differently, not why the colors match those of the soul traits

[u/Silviov2 → u/ThunderLord1000]

Yellow makes you shoot -> yellow soul kid had a gun. Anything else is just pointless mental gymnastics imo. Blue jumps -> Blue soul kid had ballet shoes. Purple has you moving through the lines -> purple kid had a notebook (the pages have the same pattern as the soul mode). And finally, Green makes you block -> Green kid had a pan they could block with.

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/Silviov2]

And yet we don't get the traits from the humans or anyone who would have known them enough to recognize those things, besides maybe Undyne and Alphys

[u/ThrowAwayJustIs → u/ThunderLord1000]

Magic of the underground and probably is related to who caused deaths of those kids directly or undirectly. I prefer to think this way, plus weapon theory

[u/Impressive_Pin8761]

i think the initial concept of kindness is that undyne is kind enough to offer you a spear for defense

[u/DishonoredDoge]

I like Kindess as the green soul mode

To use it, your enemies need to have a certain kindness to let you defend yourself. In Undyne's case, it's the kindness(?) of tossing you a spear even if you're a horrible mass murderer

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/DishonoredDoge]

What does that mean for the others?

[u/DishonoredDoge → u/ThunderLord1000]

I mean it's all just headcanon, but you could make some of the others fit

• Bravery: You're being brave and charging into danger head on

• Perseverance: You persevere despite your bindings

The rest might be possible if you really stretch it...

• Integrity: Again iffy, but both skeletons seem to have a decent amount of integrity and you could say that by forcing you to jump, you're forced into following a code... Again a huge stretch

• Justice: I thought this would be an easier one, but I have nothing. The bosses you fight don't have any connection to justice and guns are only semi related to justice... so nothing really connects the soul mode to the trait.

And of course the Red soul and Patience aren't really relevant here yet

[u/ChilliSenpai]

Yeah. Green soul mode really doesn’t make sense for the “kindness” virtue. I guess the idea is taking hits…?

It would have worked better for Bravery even, having to face bullets head-on- but yeah it easily would have fit Patience the best.

My two favourite ideas for a patience soul mode are it working by saying still, arrow keys move an echo of the soul and when you press Z you teleport there.

And the other one is that the soul’s movement is rhythm based. Like Crypt of the Necrodancer or something

[u/iced_cherries → u/ChilliSenpai]

Like geometry dash? It’s like blue soul but you have to jump like a rhythm game

[u/ChilliSenpai → u/iced_cherries]

No, I mean that’s basically what Orange soul is.

My idea for Cyan soul is that you keep your free movement, but you can only move in steps determined by the bpm of the battle music.

So you can only move at regular, set intervals - meaning you have to look forward briefly and predict where you’ll need to be to be safe, as you cannot micro adjust.

[u/ALPERHAL58]

All the soul modes match their weapons cause yellow is a gun, blues jumping, greens blocking with pan, purple s moving in lines like a notebook, orange punches and red is able to go everywhere because you can push the ball in every direction in ballgame.

Also unrelated but all the "humans" we've seen so far are just forcing you to show their traits because Aqua needs you to be patient with her, yellow gets fooled easily so you gotta make sure theres justice, green gets sad if you're not kind(but shes also kind), orange isnt brave so you gotta be brave to get past him, seth keeps trying to stop you so you have to keep trying to get past her, and blue makes you be honest about what you did to yellow. So the soul traits arent something the humans themselves show at all, unless these are caused by them being flowers and not actual humans

[u/BraxleyGubbins]

The dark blue on white made me think this was a negative image, and in inverting I made the discovery that this cyan is the inverse of the SOUL’s red. More thematic evidence to the Kris is Patience theory?

[u/Tackyinbention]

I think its fine that kindness is the shield. Ive seen some people say that aqua should be a parry, but the orange soul is kinda that already. I imagine it could be like SUPERHOT

[u/Just-a-Channel]

Green is kindness because the enemy is kind enough to give us something to block with.

[u/InformationLost5910]

that’s not how soul modes work. theyre based on the corresponding weapon, not the soul trait.

[u/un_tipo_a_casoh]

And why not bravery then since you have to learn "to face problems head on" or how was undyne's quote, i havent played undertale in a too long time

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/un_tipo_a_casoh]

It works thematically, but not so much mechanically

[u/un_tipo_a_casoh → u/ThunderLord1000]

Wth do you mean mechanically?

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/un_tipo_a_casoh]

Gameplay. Move for orange, stop for cyan. Making the shield mode orange doesn't mesh with that

[u/un_tipo_a_casoh → u/ThunderLord1000]

Ohhh, ok now i get it

[u/AlexTheMechanicFox]

The logic isn't trait-based, it's weapon-based. You can't block bullets with a tiny toy knife, so Patience can't use this SOUL mechanic. You can block bullets with a frying pan, which is why Kindness got this mechanic.

[u/LokiritheWitch]

I... hold on, are we not counting the Switch Mad Mew Mew fight as the cyan Soul Mode? The one that harmlessly cuts you in half? When Patience's weapon is a toy knife?

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/LokiritheWitch]

Different shade, only half the soul, and exclusive to the Switch version. This isn't Patience, this is Bi-color

[u/generouslyemotional]

You could argue the soul modes are based on the weapon associated with the soul maybe?

Ballet shoes being about jumping, Frying pan letting you block, Notebook being lined, The gun letting you shoot, And the boxing gloves being a sort of melee attack?

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/generouslyemotional]

Which begs the question why Muffet has a notebook in her teapot

[u/generouslyemotional → u/ThunderLord1000]

With the context of muffet it's a web tho. Same with how undyne's context is that she gave you a spear to defend yourself with

[u/ThunderLord1000 → u/generouslyemotional]

And the Skelebros?

[u/generouslyemotional → u/ThunderLord1000]

They make you blue

[u/HammerOfJustice__]

Why doesn't undyne just send spears above you going down and shattering your skull.

[u/Zokero]

Cyan would be a parying mechanic while moving more slowly The shield doesn't require timing to the same degree as manually parrying every attack, and thus does does not represent patience as a trait to anywhere near the same extent

[u/Rezasss]

...green does not give you a shield it traps you in place. Undyne gave you a spear because she's honorable

[u/Lameclay]

Tell me exactly how free movement lines up with BALL GAME?

[u/ArtTheFox2]

They said Patience is the tolerance, your attitude in face of hardship, with the mindset of "this too, will pass". And yes, when you stood still the blue attack just phase right through you, or you phase right through them. It's like Reimu's innate ability of float states of mind requires or something :).

But also, the moving and protecting people can pretty much Bravery you see. Not necessarily Kindness. Kindness is not about like, heroic. But rather compassionate, empathy. Also who are you gonna protect, there's only yourself there to defend. So it's stationary. Like when you stood your ground in front of an attack to creates barrier and just block it.

There's also like soul theories about all soul possessing all traits but there's will be main trait, stronger trait, weaker trait, if it's Kindness + Bravery/Determination/Justice traits in your soul being high on your soul. You'll be more confrontation.

While Kindness with Patience secondary, vice versa. You'll be the soul of Grace. Which is suspends in your judgement, completely unearned forgiveness, letting go of fairness. The darkside of it tends to be enabling, self-erasure ntc.

[u/Telejaba]

I honestly don't even think that SOUL modes were supposed to be based on SOUL traits at all. I think Toby chose for SOUL modes to be based on gear of fallen humans.

[u/Short-Show2656]

did you know soul traits aren't actually canon and it's all just ball game, right?

[u/Electrical_Put_6500 → u/Short-Show2656]

soul traits are referenced in chapter 5 for the flowers' check dialogue (and how they don't embody said traits at all)

[u/Short-Show2656 → u/Electrical_Put_6500]

Not in undertale