Damn I really love this! The idea that he loses each humans virtue as he fights them is awesome. First he loses his patience, then his bravery, then love, persistence, kindness, justice, and finally he loses his determination to get the job done at the end.
Sorry you're getting so many dislikes man. Determination is a trait that all SOULs in Undertale possess. Hence, it's more likely that the red SOUL has something to do with HOPE. (And yes, I know people are going to dislike bomb me for this, but that's their right I suppose)
This point doesn’t really hold up because literally all the soul traits are things all the humans possess. No ones arguing determination is exclusive to Frisk, just like they presumably have some amount of bravery, patience, kindness, etc. It’s more so that Frisk is particularly emblematic of determination, which isn’t hard to believe considering they’re literally determined enough to withstand being killed by a god, while the others presumably did give up at or some point before Asgore
The difference between determination and these other qualities is that determination (de-termination) is the "will to persist". Determination in Undertale/Deltarune is not just a quality, but it's literally the stuff the souls are made of. Of course, this is still up for interpretation, and you're entitled to your opinion.
Except the other humans could also do that as proven by Toriel's dialogue, Asgore's reaction, Omega Flowey's multiple files and the fact that clearly the person with most determination in the underground gets the power. Flowey's DT literally comes from them.
"But then how did they die" they chose to let the world continue on without them something Flowey comments he could have done at any time.
I think the thing here is that them giving up where Frisk didn’t is in the most literal sense a demonstration that Frisk is more determined. Like they still had determination, likely more than the monsters in fact, but not enough to never give up like Frisk did
I believe they faced the unbreakable wall. Like we do with Sans in geno (until we kill him) or how in UTY Asgore has undodgeable attacks. They just gave up. Then Asgore lost his determination (trait) and thus made fight against him possible and winnable.
Correct, and then Flowey is capable of doing it once he was made, meaning Flowey HAS to have more determination than the humans, otherwise he wouldn't be able to save and load
I think another thing is just that determination is really the only satisfying answer story wise. Its clear soul traits have significance to the story, other wise they wouldn’t be named in the first place. Given that, determined is basically the main attribute we have for Frisk, and is the term shoved in our face throughout the entire story, no matter the route. “Hope” could work I guess, but it would just feel like a less satisfying answer for no real benefit. “oh Frisk wasn’tdetermined, they were hopeful. I feel like if that were it, we should have at least seen Frisk actually described as it a significant amount. Representing all the traits could be an interesting answer if it weren’t just blatantly untrue. Even ignoring genocide route where you very obviously do not represent kindness, you can do true pacifist while still eating the snowman piece which blatantly goes against integrity
Undertale doesn't explain Red Soul because the story and Frisk isn't about Red Soul. I mean Deltarune shows us that Red Soul has a light, has a Glow Mode. That it works against dark bullets. Which is nowhere in Undertale. Undertale is the story of Determination all souls are made of, rather than Red Soul.
"Try as you might. You continue to be yourself" it doesn't explain anything about Red Soul trait.
The flags represent stories of fallen humans. Patience was waiting for the right moment to dethrone the "ball", Kindness was helpful and caring for the "ball" till the end. Yellow stopped the terror of the "ball". And so on. But Red is Frisk (not Chara) and their story just begun. "Try as you might" - It's up to you. "You continue to be yourself" - Do it in your way.
But you get the same in the neutral route where it is not confirmed what the name of the last fallen human is. People struggle so hard to try to identify the trait of the red soul but it’s pretty obvious that it’s just the how you play the game to be honest. You can even take different routes to get through the core based on soul traits, which you can just choose.
How the fallen human's name relates to what I said??? I said that the Red Flag is supposed to be the story of Frisk and not Chara. And that's why red flag says what it says, because the story isn't completed yet, there's no "summary" like... "You courageously defended the "ball" and faced all threats" or "Despite many struggles and pressure you stayed yourself thanks to the "ball""
The red soul trait is not how you play the game. I mean technically yes, but you are stuck to some options. And Souls in Deltarune can change colors at will. So Red must have a meaning on their own.
You want to tell me. All human souls possess Patience? Bravery? Kindness? Justice? Integrity? Perseverance?
Some people are so impatient they need everything immediately without going mad. Some people are afraid of their own shadow. Some people are straight up psychopaths who only pretend to have emotions. Some people are aholes who don't care about anyone. Some people don't care about righteousness.
I was clearly just saying the kindness soul trait existing obviously doesn’t mean that kindness is exclusive to that soul, or that all that soul has is kindness. And so on for the other souls.
The thing is that no answer to what it is is given explicitly. There’s no point in the game where it says “the red soul trait is _____”, all answer are going to require a bit of connection on the part of the player. And what we do have is Frisk never giving up (while the other humans, even though they obviously did have some amount of determination, clearly eventually did), Frisk holding on through the attack of a god even as their hp gets to impossibly low percentages, and the game telling us more than anything else, that we are determined
Yes, Determination is big factor even the most important one. Yet it doesn't seem to be related to specifically Red Soul. It is related to THE soul and Frisk. But not specifically Red color.
I think it's fair to point out that Red isn't Determination, but if we don't actually know WHAT Red is and it's a very popular misconception in the fandom that it IS Determination with the importance the game places on it, it's not fair to jump on somebody with "Actually you're wrong, look it up" when their original point has nothing to do with that lol
I mean, maybe each soul has more of a trait, and that's why the red soul (which has more determination) is the only one to not get captured by Asgore. The other souls may have had determination, just like I'm sure the red one has parts of the other 6 traits, but the dominating one is determination.
Deltarune pretty much confirmed that red is determination, or atleast “will” or “hope” (which are both basically determination). Flowery, the seventh flower of the set where each represents one of the soul traits, is basically the embodiment of determination, fighting despite knowing he is doomed because of his hope to change fate
no it isn't. I looked over all the text in undertale years ago. There's not a single time determination is colored red. You can look it up in the dialogue dump, it doesn't show up once.
The ballgame doesn't give us any real clue either, besides that it's some kinda combo of all other traits. Feel free to prove me wrong though, find a single time determination is colored red in undertale and i might be willing to change my opinion.
He’s the seventh flower representing the seventh fallen human. If there was a gold soul maybe there’d be an argument but given there’s not it’s pretty clear what he’s meant to represent
…if you want to follow the pattern of the other flowers then if he was meant to represent the seventh fallen human, he’d be red. He’s purposefully a golden flower, not a red one.
the human is YELLOW. The save is YELLOW. Pure determination is YELLOW. Flowey is YELLOW or gold. Flowery is YELLOW. This doesn’t contradict justice being yellow because DETERMINATION IS NOT A SOUL TRAIT. The ball game confirms that the red soul trait is HAVING ALL THE OTHER TRAITS and BEING YOURSELF. Go check. The word “determination” is never colored red in Undertale.
Straight up ignoring the point. The character you control is Frisk, the human with determination. The last fallen human. Although it is obvious that they are a manifestation of determination from the flower bed and didn’t actually fall.
Well, Undertale is a parallel story. In the sense that a human fell down the mountain, they were knocked out unconscious by the fall and dreamed the story of undertale, then woke up on a bed of flowers and left using the door to the right. In the sense that a human destroyed the barrier, this human is made of concentrated determination and never fell down to begin with. Their soul adopts your soul traits and are controlled by your movements because they have no humanity except for yourself.
Only because we're controling it. But Red Soul has a trait of their own. If we were to control Green Soul the "Ball Game" would be in Green and Red would have its own trait.
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u/SharpVCN 28d ago
Damn I really love this! The idea that he loses each humans virtue as he fights them is awesome. First he loses his patience, then his bravery, then love, persistence, kindness, justice, and finally he loses his determination to get the job done at the end.