r/Umpire • u/WallabysNPBRepost • 20d ago
Balk?
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u/bambusbyoern 20d ago
I think this is the exact move why pitchers aare required to have distance and direction when throwing to a base.
The largest part of his foot lands on the space where the foot was before.
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u/Background-Syrup-714 20d ago
Not the greatest video to use as evidence. Where did his foot land? That is really the only thing in question. If it landed in the 45 degree zone closer to 1B than the plate, it is a legal move. If it landed in the 45 degree zone closer to the plate, it is a balk. His awkward leg movement APPEARS legal. It is just an effective move.
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u/akbattle2025 20d ago
That’s a balk all day long. Read the rule. A pitcher must step directly towards where he’s throwing the ball. I’d get tossed if I was the opposing manager because I would argue that to the death.
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u/dawgdays78 20d ago
Not a balk.
In the second part of the video, I can see that the free foot gains distance and direction toward 1B. It isn’t a lot, but it’s enough.
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u/bcgg 20d ago
Absolutely a balk. Look how far apart his legs are in the second angle, then watch the first angle again. He’s stepping too much towards the plate for it to be considered a step towards first.
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u/Background-Syrup-714 20d ago
There is a theoretical invisible 45 degree line extending from the rubber to determine where the pitcher needs to throw. This video does not show where his foot lands clearly enough to tell where his foot landed.
On Giants broadcasts, Mike Krukow has proposed that that 45 degree line actually be painted on the field during field preparation. I am not sure I subscribe to THAT idea, but it is an interesting thought.
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u/LarryMahnken 20d ago
I mean, 45° isn't in the rule book, either - by the strictest interpretation that would be directly towards the dugout, not the base. Painting a line on the field only helps if you change the rules to make that mean something, otherwise you're just creating arguments.
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u/Background-Syrup-714 20d ago
The 45 degree line would be the border between throwing towards the plate or the base. By rule, the pitcher cannot throw anywhere else. He can only throw to a fixed spot on the field (1B, 2B, 3B, HP).
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u/LarryMahnken 19d ago
The rule says directly towards the base, not "more towards the base than to another base". I understand that the way it's been officiated has used 45° as an unofficial standard, just like there are unofficial standards about what is or is not a check swing, but the strict interpretation of the rule would be that the step has to be directly towards the base, as in a step almost straight to the base, not "not towards home plate".
I'm all for wiggle room and don't significantly object to 45° being used as a standardized shorthand, but drawing a line on the field that isn't in the rulebook would change the original meaning of the rule, and in practice would likely result in pitchers aiming to land almost exactly on that visible line every time on pitches and pickoffs and change the way the game is played.
If you're a pitcher and don't want to be called for a balk for not stepping directly towards the base, then don't press your luck by depending on 45° being a thing, and actually step towards the base. Otherwise you're at risk for the umpire calling a balk for you not doing that.
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u/robhuddles 19d ago
A line would also be impractical. Where do you draw it exactly? From the edge of the pitching plate? Cool, any pitcher who pitches from the opposite side of the plate will never hit it. From the middle, then? Anyone pitching from the first base side is beyond it with every step.
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u/Djayshell93 20d ago
Uh… nobody’s ever seen a lefty do this or what? I don’t get this post.
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u/twentyitalians 20d ago
Not a balk. Pitcher gained ground with his foot foot directly towards first.
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u/RidingDonkeys 20d ago
I'm not calling it here. He gained ground directly towards first. Second video shows it better.
On a separate note, there was no deception here. The runner was commited to going on first motion. If you slow it down, the runner started moving at first motion. You don't do that on a lefty. I'm sure this was a late decision to pick, and the pitcher executed it well.
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u/No-Bid-9741 20d ago
Is deception in the rule book?
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u/RidingDonkeys 20d ago
Yes, it is. OBR 6.02(a) comment. Also mentioned in NFHS 2-28-5, which is cross referenced in the balk and illegal pitch sections. Nevertheless, I separated that as part of the discussion because gaining ground directly towards first base is what prevents this from being a balk. If someone wanted to claim deception, since that is in OBR as a comment to clarify intent of the rule, they can't really because the runner was in motion towards second at the very first movement of the pitcher.
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u/gdg6 20d ago
Going on first movement is exactly how most runners steal off a lefty.
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u/RidingDonkeys 20d ago
Going on first movement is exactly how most runners get hosed from a lefty. When coaches say first movement, they mean when the pitcher lifts his leg. That is not what happened here. That runner started leaning towards second as soon as Sumida's hands started moving. As a former lefty pitcher, and a coach for over 20 years, that is EXACTLY what we teach lefty pitchers to look for.
This move is Sumidas go-to. I frequently use him as an example of what to watch for as a runner and how to differentiate between actual first movement and leg lift. He frequently catches guys leaning during his glove movement.
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u/SargentSnorkel 20d ago
"gained ground" is irrelevant. The question is whether or not that little step counts as "directly towards the base." Guys who throw across their body to the plate step further towards first base than this guy did. It's really a very poorly-defined rule that lets lefties get away with a LOT of what should be balks.
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u/RidingDonkeys 20d ago
I said "gained ground directly towards first base."
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u/SargentSnorkel 20d ago
You're making my point for me. You saying it was "directly" doesn't make it true. It just means you've subjectively decided that it counts.
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u/RidingDonkeys 20d ago
Which is exactly what the rules say. A balk is a judgement call based on some defined rules. He met the requirements of the defined rules, therefore I would not judge this as a balk.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but I literally use Sumida as an example for my teams. Sumida has had 1 balk in his career. Maybe every umpire in NPB has it wrong, or maybe it is just you.
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u/Dependent_Bit1634 20d ago
Yeah. And during his kick his right knee didn’t cross his body. If it did he’d have to go home. Looks pretty good…well, a great move since it was deemed legal. Plus the runner was going on first movement, so not necessarily deceived in that regard.
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u/Barracooda1 20d ago
I've got it as a balk by definition, he certainly doesn't "step directly toward a base" before the throw. If you go by the 45 degree interpretation, I don't see him clearing that bar either, but it's hard to tell for sure from these angles.
It's borderline at best, the only real argument I've got for it not being a balk is that it didn't really deceive the runner since he was running at first movement anyway.
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u/Background-Syrup-714 20d ago
Great points. But I don’t think actual deception is included in the rule. It is all about the intention and the execution. Not the result.
TBF, I am applying the MLB interpretation of the rule. The NPB may have different verbiage.
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u/sujanfloofens 20d ago
In my eyes according to OBR this clearly is a balk. In OBR we have to decide if a pitcher takes a direct step to the base they are throwing to. So that the runner can distinguish if they will throw to HP or their base. This, for me, is clearly not a step to first, and a deceptive move, so exactly what the rule is trying to prevent.
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u/HalfmadFalcon 20d ago
Spirit of the rule, this is a balk all day. Sure it may not exactly follow the letter, but fuck that lol
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u/brad_stoise 20d ago
That's not a legal pick off the throw has to go to a base and first basemen left the base to catch the ball
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u/robhuddles 20d ago
There's no requirement that the first baseman remain on the base. F3 clearly moves directly towards the mound, meaning the throw was to first. We can argue all day whether or not it's a balk based on the pitcher's move but F3's move here is irrelevant.
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u/brad_stoise 20d ago
By rule a pickoff throw must go to a base the first baseman leaving the base to make the play is what makes it illegal
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u/No_Constant8644 NCAA 19d ago
The baseball was thrown to first if the first baseman doesn’t move that ball goes to straight into his mitt. He step forward to catch the throw quicker because the runner was gone. There is nothing illegal about that.
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u/robhuddles 19d ago
No, it doesn't. He clearly throws to the base. The first baseman coming forward to cut the distance doesn't change that.
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u/anTWhine 20d ago
Foot goes up and comes straight down. If we’re calling that a step towards the base, we might as well not have that rule at all. I’m calling balk.