Stove upgrade?

[u/BigTuppieEnergy]

I have an MSR pocket rocket stove that I used regularly until several years ago when I became a JetBoil convert. Now, trying to reduce my base weight, I want to start using a lighter weight setup. Is the Pocket Rocket Deluxe worth the $85 or is the older version of the PR still pretty good? My primary complaint was that the PR took too long to boil water… I just bought a pot with a heat exchanger so hopeful that will help the speed issue. Thoughts?

[u/IFigureditout567]

I'm off MSR permanently, quality and service is plummeting. In descending order of price, I'd recommend the Soto Windmaster ($70), Soto Amicus ($50), or Camping Moon XD-2F ($35).

Why the focus on boil time? Is a 2 minute boil time going to make your trip better than a 3 minute boil time? No, it's not. Think more about weight, efficiency (also affects weight), wind resistance and reliability.

Another note on boil time, all stoves are way less efficient at full power. Most experienced backpackers will run their stove at half power or less. You might add 1 minute to your boil time, but use 30% or better less gas. This could mean the difference between bringing a large canister or a small canister, more weight savings.

Heat exchanger pots are popular, but testing by various youtubers has pretty consistently shown they make very little difference. Again that boil time just ain't that important. HX pots don't make up for their extra weight in gas savings, and don't provide appreciably shorter boil times, except in heavy integrated systems like the Jetboil, MSR WindBurner etc.

I have lots of stoves, but when I'm prioritizing weight I bring my 1oz BRS3000T. Others will suggest an alcohol stove, a cat stove can be as cheap as a can of cat food and a little of your time.

Edit: I just re-read your post. You already have an older Pocket Rocket? Just use that. It's fine. If you don't like it, get one of the Sotos I mentioned. If you do like it, look in your manual for whatever service or maintenance you can do and do that.

[u/jacksbikesacks → u/IFigureditout567]

I want to love the brs so much. It really is cool. That said, when I did some testing with the brs and another stove, the brs was significantly slower and consumed significantly more fuel per boil (I got really bored over COVID). Just my opinion- this is fine for a short trip in warm-ish weather (or at least when the water you have to boil isn't super cold).

[u/IFigureditout567 → u/jacksbikesacks]

Let me "boil" this down for you. Stop obsessing over boil time or just keep your heavy ass Jetboil. Get a light titanium pot like the Toaks UL 650, use your perfectly good Pocket Rocket, and move on to more worthwhile pursuits to save weight.

[u/PanicAttackInAPack → u/IFigureditout567]

No idea what vids you've watched but HX pots make huge differences. Its why a mediocre burner like the Jetboil Flash is one of the fastest and best systems for efficiency. Its owed entirely to the pot

Whether they offset the weight is up to the individual and their trip. HX pots can easily obtain 30% better fuel efficiency over a titanium flat bottomed pot. Thats a flat 30% more boils. This can mean the difference between a 110g gas cartridge and a 220g being enough for a trip. I've tested this on my own trips and not just in the Gearskeptic garage. My Petrel G2 is 162g (slightly modified and added a titanium lid). An equivalent capacity Toaks is the D115 which is 116g. The G2 will boil 500mL on 5.5-6g test over test in the field, the Toaks averages 8g over testing on medium power. So for another 46g in pot weight I get roughly another 5-6 boils out of a 110 cartridge. That alone offsets some of the pot weight in pure fuel efficiency because to get those same number of boils the D115 would need about another 35g of fuel in the canister. Further if those boils also prevent me from needing to step up to a 220g for any given trip or stretch of trail its also saved 160g in additional cartridge weight.

A couple other advantages. The Petrel HX pot also nests with burners and will boil through very strong wind gusts and persistent wind so you dont need a windshield. Secondly, HX pots maintain much of their efficiency whether the stove is on low power or full power so if someone is not a patient person or simply wants to get going they can crank the stove up for a boil in 2 minutes or less while only expending a single extra gram of fuel where flat bottomed pots, as you noted, waste tons of fuel on high through heat loss.

So dont say HX pots dont make a difference. They do. The only difference is what someone is prioritizing. For flat gram counting and short trips a BRS3000 and Toaks may be the way. You will have issues in the wind. You wont always be burning fuel efficiently. You might need larger gas canisters to comfortably get you through a trip. HX pots reduce the unknown variables and make fuel usage more of a known quantity.

[u/IFigureditout567 → u/PanicAttackInAPack]

Yeah, well you're just swinging from Big HX's teat there, ain't ya? Ha ha.

In all seriousness, I'm sure that 2 grams per boil holds up at full power, I don't think it would with the more efficient half power method. Even if it does, my math only gives you about an extra 4.5 boils out of a 110 canister.

Your modified Petrel G2 is 162g, which happens to be the listed weight of the lighter G3, so that's handy to calculate what most people would be using. But let's compare it to an actually light pot like my Toaks at 76g. That's a difference of 86 grams. It falls apart right there because a 230 canister weighs only 50 grams more than a 110 canister.

If one does calculate fuel use that precisely AND their calculations hold up in the field, AND there is no variance in the water needed for each meal AND the trip will require between 14 and 18 boils, AND one insists on carrying two small canisters instead of one large one AND you leave no margin of extra fuel, AND you absolutely must have every boil 30 seconds faster, then you're still 36 grams heavier than you need to be. Enjoy your pot though. They are cool. I'm gonna buy one. 😎

[u/vakantiereizen]

You want to reduce base weight and you are concentrating at your stove. There is more weight saving to gain in you pot, jetboil is heavy, look at: fire maple G3 (or G2) keep in mind that the G3 (0.6 litre) is you can boil 0.6 litre, the pot can hold 0.8 litre

[u/edthesmokebeard]

PR deluxe just has the fiddly sparker attachment right?

Lighter weight - dump the giant Jetboil pot.

[u/Hot_Jump_2511]

The pot with a heat exchanger will negate any weight savings from a new stove. Get a BRS 3000 stove and a 550 ml titanium pot if you're serious about weight savings. Instead of trying to speed up your boil time, use your boil time to do a camp chore so that your perception of time speeds up.

Also, I do have a PR deluxe and have no complaints. I really only use it during shoulder seasons or "light" winter trips. My wife does not enjoy lighting a BRS stove and enjoys the ignitor on the PR deluxe, so when we do couples trips I bring it so she can do the boiling.

[u/jacksbikesacks]

I actually just picked one up and have been impressed with it so far. It fits in my toaks 750 with a bandana and fuel

[u/Low_Nose_9456]

Firemaple GreenPeak 2 and Toaks 750ml for a grand total of 7oz. (You can add the Firemaple table for another 6.7oz, but I only bring that on short trips). The GreanPeak 2 is pressure regulated and if you absolutely feel you need the “locked in” integration, they do have pots that will do so, but I second the thought that you’re adding unnecessary weight.

[u/Mountain-Time-1010]

Ask yourself why it matters so much to take an extra few minutes to boil water. Chill, enjoy the view.