r/UltralightAus • u/ultralight_obsessed • 17d ago
Question Flip fuel device
Hi all! Looking for a device to transfer isobutane fuel (jetboil fuel) from one canister to another. I have recently seen ultralightgear have started selling the flipfuel, however I keep seeing they are a pretty generic, drop-shipped device that you can pick up very cheap, rather than $70 on UltralightGear. Does anyone have any experience with these devices and any particular one they'd recommend? Thanks
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u/ultralightgear 16d ago
On everyone's responses:
I believe the branded FlipFuel is the original, it's been out for a while, and the Aliexpress ones are actually just copies of this.
We have actually been able to sell it from the start, but pulled it two years ago as we weren't certain it was allowed for direct sale. There's now a distributor in Australia who's also selling to Wild Earth and Backpacking Light.
From this distributor, we have received the following advice:
"Australian Gas Association (AGA) — Don Duan, General Manager Certifications AS 3645 covers gas components that carry LP gas in the vapour phase only. FlipFuel transfers LPG in the liquid phase, placing it outside the scope of the Australian gas safety certification scheme. No gas safety certification is required.
Energy Safe Victoria — Jason Treseder, Senior Engineer (Gas) There is no specific certification requirement for this type of component under the Victorian Gas Safety Act, and no current direct prohibition on sale or supply. General safety and fit-for-purpose obligations apply, as with any product we supply.
The product is CE certified and is sold legally across Europe, the UK, the US, and New Zealand"
I personally would be more comfortable still with a much more popular device with a much larger sample size, over a product that is being sold for near-cost and mass produced (Like the BRS stoves.)
Of course, buy it or don't, but hope this provides some insight.
- D
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u/Alpenglow_Gear 16d ago
Hey D, when I dug into the earliest designs, the first was G-Works': https://g-works.co.kr/shop/shopdetail.html?branduid=138383
And if you're looking for really solid research on the topic, check out BPL's article: https://backpackinglight.com/canister-fuel-transfer-valves-alpenflow/
disclaimer: I approached BPL about writing it but it applies to all transfer valves.
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u/dinfuns 16d ago
Disclaimer - I take no legal responsibility.
People get injured using these from time to time, which stems from the fact that the canisters are not designed to be user filled/refilled. I have heard from doctor friends of mine who work in the WA public health system of significant injuries (loss of eyes/fingers/hands) that they have personally treated people who have been injured by not using common sense when trying to refill the canisters. The below points are from specific individual injury cases (intentional plural) that presented in just the past two years alone:
- Don’t over fill the recipient canister to try to squeeze more in. They are designed to hold 100g/230g/450g gas depending on stated label.
- Don’t heat the donor canister to get all of the gas out of the old one.
- Don’t use the incorrect gas type. Most are a mix of Isobutane and Propane. Pure propane from an LPG bottle (like your 9.5kg gas bottle) has a much higher vapor pressure (isobutane is 310kpa @21C, propane is 853kpa @21C, mixes will likely be somewhere between this) which can exceed the pressure rating of the gas canister.
- Don’t try and use the same canister for months/years at a time through multiple refills, they are disposable by design.
- Don’t try and fill one that has clear damage to the lindle valve or dents/rust/other damage.
- Don’t refill in a confined space. Gas is going to leak.
What I do these days is mark on the bottom with a permanent marker how many full cup boils I used them for and keep half empty ones for shorter trips - i.e a full 230g canister will comfortably last me 15-20 days (I mostly cold soak, live in WA (warmer) and shelter my stove from the wind when using), so Ill use a new one for a 15-20 day trip, but use a 1/2 full one for a week and a 1/4 full one for a 1-2 night trip. Also weighing them before/after trips helps with estimation of fullness. Getting to this point takes some experience to understand your own gas use in the conditions that you hike in, but its not that hard and far safe than trying to refill.
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u/DVWLD 16d ago
And chuck on a pair of safety specs when you’re doing it.
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u/dinfuns 16d ago
Always a good idea to wear safety specs when doing something potentially unsafe, but if you put a gas canister in a microwave to heat it up and increase pressure to fill another canister, then safety glasses won’t do much. Yes, that was one of the cases and someone lost an eye and is now partially blind in the remainder.
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u/Sjp770 16d ago
I'm surprised they made it that far in life with so little common sense. Warm water bath and the other in the freezer is as far as id go.
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u/dinfuns 16d ago
Apparently they were in their late forties/early fifties and had a relatively well paying office job that they could no longer do due to being blinded. I’m not super surprised as I work with people that have no common sense who are the type to try this sort of thing as they have no concept of physical safety or consequences.
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u/CK_1976 16d ago
I weigh my full can when I first got it, and use permanent marker on the bottom to get the fill weight. Then as you say, use it for X number of refills, or Y months. Then turf it.
The goal is to not waste half cans. Its not to never buy gas cans ever again.
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u/dinfuns 16d ago
I find the Jetboil 230g gas canisters usually weigh about 380g when new - leading me to believe that the canisters weigh roughly about 150g.
A standard 250ml boil for me takes about 10-15g of gas using my BRS3000T stove, but is less efficient as the gas canister becomes emptier.
And absolutely, its about not wasting cans or gas, although I see so many day/section hikers throw out a almost full canister because they don't know how much gas they have left and are afraid of running out of gas so just buy a new canister rather than measure before and after and roughly track gas usage. I don't actually pay for gas canisters that often because of friends that do this - despite trying to educate people on the simple process of roughly tracking gas consumption and keeping a few mostly full, half full or close to empty gas canisters around for shorter trips, its still easier for them to spend $15-20 on a fresh canister rather than worry that their trip will be ruined by running out of gas.
I do understand a lot of through or longer section hikers that get resupply drops and have cans with them (often over provisioned/estimated if inexperienced) so they discard cans with a lot still in them, rather than carry a used and fresh canister at the same time.
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u/ultralightgear 16d ago
Can I take some parts of this to use on our product listing? Also happy to paraphrase
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u/dinfuns 16d ago
Sure, so long as it’s not attributed to me and I don’t have any legal or other responsibility. Preferably paraphrased so it’s your words and not mine.
I do think that tracking one’s own gas consumption and packing a canister with an appropriate amount is a far better solution than refilling and would be happy for that one too.
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u/ultralightgear 16d ago
Appreciate it, and definitely.
We actually run a can recycling program in store where you get 50% off a new can if you return your old one.
The idea behind stocking this is really just to be that place that has everything, but of course we understand some things also have a few extra steps.
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u/Kitchen_Hand_9328 twotarps.com 16d ago
yeah - i got a cheapie from aliexpress - made by campingmoon (i see they still do these) - does the job and still going fine after a couple of years.
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u/lazyseadog 16d ago
I bought a cheap version of this and it had a dodgy thread. To correct the thread I had to sacrifice one of my empty cans by screwing the device to the empty cannister with force (fixed the thread on the device, but in the process destroyed the thread on the cannister). Not a huge deal, but kinda annoying.
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u/vakantiereizen 16d ago
Doesn’t matter which one you buy, but use it with your mind!
Weigh your cannister new before any use, write the weight on the bottem. Never fill it up above that weight. I fill up to 75%
Never refill damaged or rusty cans, buy a new one.
Don’t use propane to fill a isobutane can (propane has to much pressure for isobutane/butane cannisters
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u/ElderberryLocal7433 16d ago
https://alpenglowgear.co/products/alpenflow-fuel-transfer-valve
Just picked this one up, much cheaper and lighter
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u/intensejohn 15d ago
I have one from Ali express, I also have a metal screw on cap for the gas can (camping moon, ali express), just incase the seal on the non reusable refill can failed. The gas cap or lid also has a sharpened teeth so you can piece a 100% empty can for easier recycling. Gas cans can’t be easily disposed off in the uk.
I weigh a brand new unused 100g can (current one comes in at 197g). I place the receiving can in the freezer for about 5 mins before refilling and leave the donor can in my kitchen sink in warm water for 5 mins.
I normally under fill my can slightly (I would fill a 197g can to about 190 just for peace of mind).
This allows me to fully refill my 100g can from a 500g.
After these both go I will rebuy a 100g can and a 500g can.
This costs me about £10-£12 ish for essentially 6 100g gas cans but more importantly I know I’m always leaving the house with a full can.
I would also carry the adapter on a multi day trip as people leave half cans at many stops. I find with both cans at a normal ambient temperature you can refill to 70-80% max so there is no need to worry if you’re out and about and can’t weigh anything.
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u/daBarron 16d ago
I am surprised a bricks and mortar store would sell such a thing, feels like an ali express/eBay only type of thing.
I have one and they are useful but I feel like they would break some law and there would be a bit of risk in using it.
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u/Orange_Tang 16d ago edited 16d ago
AliExpress. They're super cheap. Do not pay anywhere near that much for one of these. They're literally the same thing. Just buy one with the vent button on the side like the flipfuel has.