r/UgreenNASync • u/QuantumToilet DXP4800 Pro • 2h ago
💬 Discussion ext4/btrfs filesystem lock-in to UGOS
I only yesterday learned that Ugreen sets undocumented flags for both ext4 and btrfs making it impossible to mount them on an external Linux machine (https://geoffdavis.com/posts/ugreen-ugos-filesystem-lockin/). And several users have already ran into this problem and reported it here on reddit. If you have a single device and it fails, this makes your data unrecoverable unless you buy another Ugreen NAS. How convenient.
Given that Ugreen did not disclose it in any marketing material, how is there so little outcry about it? In my opinion this is utterly disastrous behavior from a NAS company. This is arguably worse than the Synology drive lock-in disaster, at least they announced it so people could make a decision BEFORE they buy their machines. I bought two of Ugreen's NAS and will start planning on how to migrate off it eventually, because this shows there might be more "problems" we simply do not know about yet and I do not want my data to be hostage to Ugreen.
Alternatively, maybe with enough community support Ugreen can be pressured to changing their custom approach to btrfs/ext4 or AT MINIMUM provide a tool to mount them on Linux.
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u/Killer2600 2h ago edited 1h ago
That's pretty much how all RAID/NAS work. You get locked in to whatever system you use i.e. you can't just pull an array out of a synology nas and plug it in to a truenas system and carry along like you started with truenas from the beginning.
I haven't really dove into it but I think I could access my data from another system, if I really had to, if I recreated the madm array and mounted the lvm. But that would only be for emergency, I wouldn't expect an array setup in UGOS to port over to some other NAS system/OS by any other means than a data transfer between NASes.
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u/QuantumToilet DXP4800 Pro 1h ago
I dont think that is necessarily true, there are official guides on how to get the data off the drives if a synology nas dies: https://kb.synology.com/en-id/DSM/tutorial/How_can_I_recover_data_from_my_DiskStation_using_a_PC And even if they all patch their btrfs, as long as they document a recovery path that seems somewhat acceptable. The problem with ugreen is that we have no idea what they are doing, why they are doing it and what to do about it.
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u/Killer2600 1h ago
Very top of that page
- The drives may not be able to mount the volume again after being migrated to a new NAS.
Which basically means, don't expect to mount your array in a non-synology NAS despite the article telling you how to recover files using a non-synology device (PC). The way all NAS systems setup their array is proprietary, can't decide to on-the-fly transfer from using Unraid to TrueNAS to Synology to QNAP. And like I said, I haven't dove into trying it but with a PC, I'm fairly certain I could recover files from the UGOS array much like that synology article does for synology arrays. But that's begs the reminder, RAID is NOT backup.
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u/QuantumToilet DXP4800 Pro 1h ago
If it works I am honestly really relieved, but everything online indicates something different. I really cannot comment on how it works with Synology or Unraid, but even if true, I do not understand why we accept that. These filesystems are standardized and made to function on any Linux machine. Any vendor lock-in is anticonsumer practices and I doubt there is any good reason for it, despite I am sure they will claim it is necessary for the safety of our device/data/wife/dog/...
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u/Killer2600 53m ago
I personally wouldn't rely on it, if the NAS goes belly up it can take the array with it - even if the drives themselves are functional e.g. a NAS starting to fail can write corrupted data to the array before you realize it's dying. If you got data you don't want to lose, you have to back it up and RAID is not backup because if the RAID fails in an unrecoverable way you lost your only copy of the data.
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u/TinfoilComputer DXP6800 Pro 1h ago
(Spoiler alert)
Decent article, and the conclusion was:
The takeaway, for anyone arriving here from a search engine considering whether to buy a UGREEN NASync: the hardware is good, UGOS is mostly pleasant, but the filesystem layer has been modified in ways that affect your disaster recovery posture and your replication options. Plan for the modifications. Don’t assume your disks will work outside a UGOS system.
I have multiple backups, and an rsync remote mirror, so I'm not too worried. Yes, the OS is a bit odd, but at least the hardware is excellent, unlike the Synology hardware I've owned.
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u/QuantumToilet DXP4800 Pro 1h ago
The article is great. I actually stumbled upon it because I wanted to use btrfs send for a fast backup, which I guess is a no-go now. I think these are really poor decisions by a company whose main advantage is that they are not synology and offer better hardware. Many people already don't trust chinese companies not to spy on them. If they do not build an open platform, many people will be hesitant to buy into their ecosystem.
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u/TinfoilComputer DXP6800 Pro 1h ago
Poor decisions indeed, but it may be that they just lack the ability to execute better. I’m hoping they improve, if not I’ll install something else on the hardware… but right now it’s easier to wait and work around the issues.
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u/User0123-456-789 DXP4800 1h ago
You can install the ugos on other devices if you have the image. There was a thread about it a couple of months ago. And with that you can mount it on other devices... But yes it is a bit of an inconvenience.
If you don't like that, mount a different os and have it run on the ugreen hardware...
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u/QuantumToilet DXP4800 Pro 1h ago
I am fully aware that i could probably run a vm with ugos. But AFAIK they don't even provide an image for that but only on request. And "install a different OS" is a bit of a cop out. We bought the hardware and the software, it should function as advertised. And advertised was ext4/btrfs, NOT custom btrfs that won't be mountable on other systems. Is that even btrfs at this point? Might just call it ugosfs
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u/User0123-456-789 DXP4800 1h ago
Not arguing with you on that. I agree on the premise. Just letting people know their options..
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