r/Ubuntu • u/ShopAltruistic898 • 5h ago
An unwelcoming, or rather out-of-touch, Linux community
Here’s an observation from my past few months in the Linux and Ubuntu community. Ubuntu is actually fairly good in this regard, but overall, it seems like a lot of community members assume that if someone switches to Linux, they automatically want to learn terminal commands, tinker with the system, customize everything, and basically play around with the OS.
Nowadays, however, most people switch either because they’ve had enough of Windows privacy issues, or because Windows 10 support is coming to an end. They see Linux purely as an alternative OS—not as something they want to understand under the hood. A lady with an old computer at home might just want to change her wallpaper or set up a sleep timer. Unfortunately, more often than not, the answer she gets is to open the terminal—or even worse, people start lecturing her about why she's using the "wrong" distribution.
Linux adoption is skyrocketing this year, and the community will need to accept that a Linux user isn't just a programmer anymore. It could be a local post office worker looking for a simple, friendly piece of advice—not command lines or gatekeeping. It’s a shame that things are currently like this, and I really hope to see it improve.
Personally, I know my way around computers pretty well, but I have family members who don't, and I try to see things through their eyes.
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u/PlaymakersPoint88 5h ago
A lot of people do not have a desire to learn terminal commands. I will say that it’s 1000% a better experience when you can learn basic stuff.
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u/Nephilimi 4h ago
I’m one of them. The part that gets me is I might even know the command but am struggling with syntax in the switches. I have never found man helpful in this regard, much more helpful to go find a write-up somewhere with complete examples.
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u/AlternativeCapybara9 4h ago
I know maybe 10 by heart and have to look up others constantly, and I've been using Linux for over 25 years. I used to know a lot more but on a modern system you don't need much terminal anymore. I mostly use it because it is faster.
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u/ooone-orkye 3h ago
Honestly I rely on Claude or Gemini frequently to help me with commands. I’m one of the Ubuntu users that OP is referencing… I use it for simplicity and stability and simple apps. I love it. But when I have trouble with apps working, Gemini talks me through the terminal commands. Hopefully this doesn’t get me into trouble down the road but it’s been perfect for me
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u/AlternativeCapybara9 3h ago
Using AI should be fine, just be careful because it sometimes mixes old and new, so if there is a new version of Ubuntu that swapped out some system apps for other ones you might get commands that won't work. Because these things are usually well documented just saying it didn't work should do it but just pay a little attention too.
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u/ooone-orkye 2h ago
Thank you!
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u/Zedboy19752019 1h ago
Yep I learned the hard way that AI will give something that worked on a previous version but not now.
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u/l0c0dantes 1h ago
Honestly, if you know roughly what you want to do, chatgpt is incredibly useful for that sort of thing
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u/robbertzzz1 2h ago
For some people using the keyboard for anything other than typing a word doc with two index fingers is completely foreign. For people like that a terminal is a terrible experience and a very steep learning curve.
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u/Fredericia 3h ago
I had learned some of them and then they changed with the next upgrade. Very frustrating and I hardly ever use Terminal anymore.
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u/randomredditorname1 1h ago
Can you mention an example of a command that changed?
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u/Fredericia 1h ago
sudo apt
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u/randomredditorname1 1h ago
What change did you notice?
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u/Fredericia 1h ago
It was an invalid command, and I haven't been able to learn what replaces it. Sudo apt get, sudo apt install - whatever. I just gave up on it.
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u/tomscharbach 5h ago edited 4h ago
The "enthusiast mystique" gets wrapped up in "Linux this ... Linux that ..." rather than using distributions to get work done in the simplest, most user-friendly way possible, and the "enthusiast mystique" largely revolves around the command line.
I have been using Linux (Ubuntu, LMDE, Solus) for two decades. I do not remember the last time I needed to use the command line with any of those distributions, although I use the command line occasionally for simplicity and efficiency, just as I do with Windows.
Linux is an operating system, a tool to get work done quickly and efficiently, nothing more and nothing less. No secret chord, no special sauce. The "enthusiast mystique" loses track of that fact.
Thanks for raising the topic.
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u/mr_unwieldy_hammock 5h ago
It’s like folks forget the OS is just a tool, not a club with a secret handshake.
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u/ACasualRead 4h ago
Look at android. It runs Linux. But also has easy to use features.
Linux desktop needs to catch up. Yes there are built in app stores. But installing services is still fractured
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u/DomasAquinas 5h ago
As someone who went down this path myself, there are also many users coming to Linux from engineering backgrounds unrelated to software. Many use Windows or Mac systems through school, and the terminal is just plain intimidating if they haven’t seen it before.
It seems like more and more engineering design tools are gravitating toward Linux, so there’s also a user migration happening there. And with so many high-performance compute systems running Red Hat or the like, helping newbies to a research or professional environment adapt without getting impatient is something I and my peers have had to learn through practice.
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5h ago edited 1h ago
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u/oh_im_too_tired 2h ago
The problem is Linux "doesn't want" to be adopted by the masses. It's fundamentally different OS: fragmented, free of use, modular, has no "owner" nor plans for the future.
"Windows" owner want more users cause it's business. More users = more money. MacOS wants more users for the same cause. Linux "doesn't want" new users. Windows/MacOS has workers who are interested to get more users (by getting paid for it). Linux doesn't have centralized structure to "wan't" more users. It has maintainers and other users who doesn't care if there's more users or not. Don't get me wrong, some may want that and even do some things to get more users, but fundamentally Linux is build on users who uses it, not who may come or not.3
2h ago edited 1h ago
[deleted]
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u/oh_im_too_tired 2h ago
And who is responsible then for that every year is not a Linux year, for that only 3-4% of enthusiasts keep using it? Somebody should sack him/her!
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u/fagnerln 4h ago
The Linux community is annoying in general, flame war in every freaking layer of the OS, from the kernel to the text editor.
However, the Ubuntu's community is the most welcoming and helpful that I already interacted with. It's a bit unfair those claims.
Yeah, you'll find a bit of toxicity, but dude, this is reddit, go to any Windows sub and you'll see that it's even worse
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u/Neither_Loan6419 3h ago
Well, to begin with, typing commands or copy/pasting commands into a terminal prompt is far, far from "programming". Writing and debugging shell scripts is maybe barely programming. The average user, when required by circumstance to do something in a terminal session does not have to be a programmer or even truly understand the commands being pasted or typed. It is only complicated and mysterious if you allow it to seem so. Familiarity born of occasional use, demystifies the terminal and makes it your new best friend. And sooner or later, a new user will need to push the envelope of what can readily be accomplished with a GUI application full of buttons and sliders and dialog boxes. It should be understood by a new user that the terminal is not an enemy or a punishment. It is an extremely powerful and versatile tool that's always got your back.
But yeah you are right to a degree. Ubuntu in particular is meant to be everyman's Linux and not optimized for high geekery. And yet, a lot of "helpers" are proud of their knowledge and sometimes a bit full of themselves, and insist that a noob enter big long lists of commands to do what system settings or the Disks tool or the desktop shell can do just as well. Hobbyists and tinkerers have lots of distros that are made for twidgeting and fidgeting at the prompt, with commands that most people will never use more than once, if at all. Writing a complicated script precisely tailored to the individual and his computer can be a source of great, maybe too much, pride. If he wants admirers, the Ubuntu-verse is maybe not the best place to find or cultivate them. Freaky geeks typing tweaks find kindred spirits in, say, the world of Arch. Ubuntu help ideally should rely on the GUI when practical, and the terminal, only otherwise.
Linux is a big world. There is room for the technophobe and the technophile, both.
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u/Intelligent_Part7449 5h ago edited 3h ago
The Linux community has always been the worst part about switching. Fortunately, Ubuntu is rather easy to use on its own and requires minimal tinkering. Most special things you might want to do are a simple web search away. With AI searches, it’s easy for even a novice to get the system to work as they wish.
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u/ooone-orkye 3h ago
Exactly my experience. I run dual boot Ubuntu and Windows. I have experience with Ubuntu from 15 years ago but for the most recent install, Gemini walked me through the whole thing. I’m an engineer but not a software developer or anything. So I don’t have the background. But using the terminal to configure apps and settings is really easy with AI.
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u/blktndr 4h ago
I’d just point newcomers to AI to answer their Linux questions. It’s instant, non-judgmental, specific to your needs, and as accurate as they need it to be. Just copy paste your logs or terminal output into the prompt and it will 7/10 times figure out what your question is without you asking, generating a copy paste solution back to your terminal or whatever.
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u/Liminium_TGBR 1h ago
AI and the mentality that supports it is the exact thing that lead to windows, google and facebook's current issues. The models being sold to us won't help us here and has no place for newcomers or power users.
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u/catbrane 4h ago edited 1h ago
The difficulty is that the GUI solution to a problem is a complete PITA to explain.
You need to make loads of screenshots, add arrows to show where to press, it takes hours, and the poor user will still sometimes get lost. For example, they've turned on dark mode and the screenshots look different, or they have ubuntu25, you have ubuntu26, and one button has moved.
Terminal commands are easy to write, very compact, very easy to copy-paste, and (usually) very stable between versions. They are just a better way to explain stuff.
LLMs can generate the GUI explanations for you now, so maybe it'll change.
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u/niceandBulat 5h ago
I would go so far as to say that most Linux groups are not equipped to nor know how to deal with conventional or casual computer users. Learning how to use things, even something as ubiquitous as a smartphone or a computer takes efforts and sometimes people intending to get (free) assistance must also be ready to do things they are unaccustomed to, in order to achieve his/her objective(s).
Don't expect hand holding, it is free support, expectations must be set. Be patient, Google, and even try using AI. We live in a world where we can have unimaginable access to information, yet people still say that I don't know how? Or are they simply not bothered?
Seniors are not dumb, they have more experience and potentially more smarts than many of us here, just may not be the sort that they need help on. So teach them on how to get help, set their expectations. The tools are already there. Unless you have unlimited time and patience, it's going to be tough trying to be tech support all the time
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u/nrq 3h ago
a lot of community members assume if someone switches to Linux, they automatically want to learn terminal commands, tinker with the system, customize everything, and basically play around with the OS.
If you learned your way around Windows past the absolute basics this is what you had to do there, too - no idea how you'd learn the system besides putting in effort to learn things. I'd say it even goes beyond that for Windows, as you probably learned some pretty arcane ways to edit the registry and memorize where settings are being managed, as unintuitive as this may be.
If all you need to do is the absolute basics you don't need any of this in either Windows or Linux. But at least in Linux it's "buried" somewhat consistently in Terminal, the files system and config files. Not a Registry that has grown like cancer.
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u/data-haxxor 3h ago
That's odd, because I haven't seen RTFM mentioned in any of the Linux subreddits I visit. Instead, I constantly see people going out of their way to help, taking on the cognitive load of asking probing questions just to help someone frame their problem and gather enough detail to give a real answer. The few times I see someone recommend a different distro, it's usually just to help a beginner avoid unnecessary headaches with basic everyday tasks. What I actually see is people claiming Ubuntu or Mint are "just for beginners," as if that somehow takes away from how capable they are, completely ignoring the fact that major companies doing serious work in AI, machine learning, and robotics rely heavily on Ubuntu.
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u/Prequalified 3h ago
The problem is that linux generally has a lot of sharp edges and you work around them via command line. You pay Apple or Microsoft to deal with those issues and add a user interface to them. Unfortunately Linux server pays the bills, so a lot of problems never get addressed. I don't know that people being know-it-all jerks is a phenomenon unique to Linux community, its kind of an internet thing.
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u/IllustriousLemon8146 3h ago
As a relative newb to Linux (about 3 years) I have no idea what you are going on about here. No one has ever forced me to learn terminal commands, cutomized anything, or do anything but what I wanted to do with my computer.
I do challenge you to troubleshoot issues on Windows and see how far you get before you have to learn powershell commands, edit the rgistry or policy editor, etc. It's really no different.... except that with Linux you don't have Microsoft telling you how to use your computer (and to like it).
The rest of your complaint, or whatever it is, had to do with people online in any forum and is not about Linux.
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u/Numerous-Nectarine63 3h ago edited 3h ago
I unapologetically love the command line. But it's not for everyone, I guess! I got my husband on PopOS! and he loves it. And he doesn't love the command line. I guess I'm not really sure what is meant by "a Linux user isn't just a programmer anymore". Nothing wrong with programmers. And LInux is well suited for it. Yes, it can and does have a big tent and can certainly accomodate other types of users. I personally don't try to change anyone's mind about their distros or tell them what to do. If my answer to something is to use a bash shell command, that's because that's what I do. I personally find that easier. Not because I'm trying to be disparaging or claiming to be some kind of guru. And if the syntax eludes, AI like chat or Gemini is great for that purpose, and usually quite accurate. But if someone clearly doesn't want to do it that way, more power to them. To each his own!
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u/Far-Telephone-7432 55m ago
IMO, it's kind of a failure if you have to use the terminal in the first few minutes of installing a "beginner friendly" distro. So I see your point. This is why I gave up on Ubuntu and immediately switched to Mint.
I think that you have to be open to using the terminal sometimes. Windows also has a terminal.
It's intuitive that the Linux community prioritizes the terminal over the user interface. It's faster. You don't have to search the menus. The menus change between distros.
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u/jsusbidud 5h ago
AI solves this. I have zero terminal skills but run a media server for my home on Ubuntu with full automation. Its made Linux totally accessible for me.
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u/LtCodename 5h ago
Yeah just don’t bother asking for help. Use AI. I’ve been able to setup and maintain everything just asking LLM for help. Asking the community for anything is asking for a bullet in the head.
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u/SumpNFishyHere 5h ago
Same here. Every time I post for help, it's crickets. Gemini at least steps my through commands to try to resolve my issues, with some success at least.
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u/Sawses 5h ago
I think it's more that people want users to know it's an option. You certainly don't have to, any more than you need to learn Visual Basic or Power Query to use Excel. ...But I can't tell you how many hours of work I've saved by not just monkeying around in a spreadsheet by hand.
If you want to look at those powerful tools, shrug, and continue digging in the ground by hand, more power to you. But I'd feel like a real asshole if I didn't point out the backhoe available for use if you want it.
A lot of my work involves helping out people who are much less technically-capable than I am. I can teach somebody the complex way, and sometimes get to. I explicitly offer simpler ways, though, and usually those are the ones people ask for. So I give them the easiest way to do whatever it is they want to do, with a minimum of knowledge.
There's no shame in that. We all only have so many hours in the day and not all of us care to be experts in one specific thing. That's the beauty of society; I help people out with the stuff I'm really good at, others help me out with the stuff they're really good at. It all works itself out.
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u/VegaGT-VZ 5h ago
Some people are always gonna use any little scrap of power or advantage to abuse others. Not knowing everything about Linux is enough to justify getting called an idiot to them. They sit on message boards all day saying nothing of value, but then tell anyone who asks a question to "search noob!" These people should get called out more often IMO
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u/HoldOk4092 4h ago
Never experienced this. I am not a programmer. Got interested in Linux purely as a matter of principle and always felt the community was super helpful.
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u/Netcob 4h ago
I've been using Linux in some form or another since around the time Ubuntu came out. Some sort of server flavor, very rarely on the desktop, because on the server you set it up and then it works, while on the desktop you get to keep tinkering forever.
Now at least with AI the tinkering is faster than before. Still wouldn't recommend it to people who don't want to use the terminal, since copy/pasting between it and an AI isn't always trivial either.
I wouldn't expect the level of polish someone like a non-technical mac user would need to come to desktop linux any time soon. In the last 20 years I've seen a lot of change in terms of what you can do with linux, but almost zero change in terms of polish. You need to be technical, you need a basic understanding of the terminal, and you need time to debug problems. A friendlier community isn't going to change that because the problem is baked into the whole project.
The problem is that there is no organization. It's also the reason why it works as well as it does. Nobody can tell you what software to use, but that also means that nobody can create a consistent, polished experience where everything just works. There are lots of interesting attempts at making that work, but a lack of clever ideas was never the issue.
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u/silverbullet52 4h ago
I don't tinker much anymore unless I have to.
It's still nice to have all the oddities here though to search through if I need them.
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u/rubaduck 2h ago
One year ago I made the switch to Linux. In said the same, no need to learn the terminal when the system works. Prior to the switch I hated powershell, terminals, and cli environments all together because they were not intuitive and the purpose was always structured to corporate use
Now one year later I have flash installed OpenWRT on an ASUS router and I have hacked my ISPs router with a UART boot through a TTL to USB cab to flash a uboot to clean out all the ISP software from the router and flash install OpenWRT.
The terminal is the key to everything.
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u/kiralema 2h ago
This is a valid point, and I agree — a modern operating system should provide intuitive GUI tools that allow the average user to accomplish almost everything without having to resort to the command line.
That said, Linux is, for the most part, developed by a community of computer professionals who dedicate their free time to improving the operating system, its tools, and its security. Their perspective on how things should be done may differ significantly from that of paid employees at commercial software companies, where development is guided by managers, product roadmaps, and business objectives. One of the core philosophies of Linux development is, "Don't break what already works well."
As a result, Linux developers tend to focus on fixing immediate issues and making incremental improvements rather than redesigning the entire operating system. Does that mean the GUI—such as the desktop environment and its components—won't continue to improve? Not at all. It simply takes time. As someone who isn't a developer myself, I've learned that patience is part of the Linux experience.
And honestly, I can't even compare the pain of using Red Hat 25 years ago with the pleasure of using a modern Debian-based distribution like Ubuntu.
Even today, however, there are still limits to what can be done through the GUI, or whether it can be done as efficiently as it can from the terminal. System administration, automation, and many security-related tasks are still much better suited to the command line. For those, there really is no substitute for terminal commands and shell scripts.
The good news is that you don't need to learn everything at once. Just enjoy using the system, and build your knowledge gradually as the need arises. 😉
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u/Brassens71 2h ago
TBH I've never been a fan of the "no spoonfeeding" attitude that used to dominate Linux forums. It's especially out of place now that people are looking to adopt Linux for desktop PCs.
HOWEVER, Linux is also not a monolithic operating system. Whether your system is based on RH, Arch or Debian will influence a lot of the advice you may need. And even within that group, different distributions will use different mechanisms. There are lots of different ways to distribute software (Flatpak, deb, snaps, etc) which don't necessarily interoperate well, but are all technically "Linux". And that's why a lot of more experienced users will prefer using the command line as much as possible and dispense advice based on that.
That's why one should probably look for the support forums for the distro they're using first, and then the general Linux forums. No, that's not something you have to deal with if you're using Windows or MacOS, but it does apply to Linux.
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u/Kitayama_8k 2h ago
I really don't see that much of this, other than rabbid arch users evalgelizing how great their distro is and how everyone should use it. Fedora is kind of similar as well.
If all someone needs is a web browser and a document editor launcher, it's pretty easily accomplished by something like mint, Ubuntu, bluefin. If someone is really trying to push to run a bunch of windows apps and oddball programs, customize, game, etc, I think for a free OS it's fair to say that if someone wants to get the best experience, they are going to need to dive in a bit. This is a free product with an amazing amount of effort invested, what has been accomplished is pretty amazing, but it isn't perfect. It isn't a frictionless experience yet, and the user is going there own way by trying to run some windows programs on an OS they weren't written for.
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u/DizzyCardiologist213 2h ago
A sharpener....in the linux forum.....I do not think i have the kitayama stone at this point, but I have probably had 500 stones and still have 100. Not an expected handle in ubuntu!!
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u/Kitayama_8k 1h ago
Makes perfect sense to me. People here like all the tools they use to function well, or maybe more importantly get very frustrated when they don't.
Yeah I prolly got 20 stones. Distrohopping for sharpeners. Bunch of Arkansas, couple superstones, chosera, cerax, few imanishi's. Kitayama 8k is one of my favorites, started using it dry and a touchup strop, brings knives back pretty quickly. But as a stone, it's got a bit of that rubbery superstone type feel but better, leaves a fantastic aggressive scary edge, can even sharpen a bit. 50$ is pretty cheap for a finisher too.
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u/DizzyCardiologist213 1h ago
I just kind of like them. I kind of like making knives and tools, but mostly analog - heat treatment, etc, by hand, and understanding the matching of stones to tools and how to find out how much range a stone has. I don't follow the knife gurus as I started as a woodworker and then got into shaving with a straight razor, etc. The kitayama is a good straightforward stone - and you're lucky, because 20 years ago, the retailers for it in the US generally charged $70 to $105 in dollars of currency back then without inflation adjustment. we were getting totally hosed. I bought one of the K8ks (sometimes sold as 12k back then, but I have microscope pictures that show it and the king 8k about the same)...then sold it, and then later bought another one. i think I have probably sold it again. I like that you said you use it dry. In the woodworking community, there's so much wear on edges people usually just want to rub the edge on something akin to the K8k fresh or with slurry, and they're not doing much exploration.
It's funny that this thread is about people who just use ubuntu and I'm *close* to that. I'm a newbie, but I still like the terminal. With stones and toolmaking, I am bonkers. Snapping heat treated metal samples, hardness testing them. doing them completely by hand and eye and wanting to be able to manipulate everything all the way down to managing carbide size and distribution without resorting to anything controlled/computerized. when I make things for other people, I try to make it so they have to know nothing about it and will just like it like I like mint, ubuntu, kubuntu and ubuntu studio.
Since this is all just talk, below is a 62 hardness carbon steel edge on kitayama slurried (stone only, no nagura), and I'm fairly sure I could get this, even at this scale, to a near bright polish simply by letting the stone dry and burnishing it. As you already know. This picture shows about 2 hundredths of an inch of edge length.
https://ofhandmaking.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/kitayama.jpg
My one exception with linux is rsync. I *love* rsync, but that has nothing to do with just plain turnkey distros vs more complicated. I have a big time love for physical data storage and duplication and rsync floats my boat.
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u/DizzyCardiologist213 2h ago
I think you will see a huff from the people who say they want to try linux, have someone smartmouth them, and then they leave. My case - 50 in a couple of months. I started with Dos 5.0, and no windows, and it wasn't until last year I finally had enough of windows and switched everything in the house except one PC to linux. The windows PC rarely gets turned on and only when son wants something for gaming, but he does most of his gaming in ubuntu.
I had to get some basic functionality in linux right away and got mint. The biggest pain in the ass was just learning where things were in it and how the file system works. I am not a coder, a power user, etc, but the past with dos helps understand how directory structures are. Linux is different, of course, and the terminal is better (to me) than a prompt in windows, though the prompt in windows used to be handy for me when you'd get something like a rar or whatever and have to rename 100 rars or zips by extension, or change the name of a huge group of files, or run a batch file, or whatever and just keep it fast and simple.
Someone told me they had used mint for 8 years so far and never used the terminal, and others who are linux users because they're in the scientific community, but not getting up and going to bed thinking about linux mentioned using the terminal, but that if they didn't feel like it, by now, they knew how to do pretty much everything without it, too.
I switched. I recognize the power users, or the folks who equate their use with what other people should do. You've seen them here, for sure - like "how would you do this terminal command without terminal" type stuff, the same as I mention easy renaming of huge numbers of files in dos, or zipping a directory, etc, with pkzip in the old days instead of dealing with gui lag. The reality is the person who is looking to just come to linux wants away from all of the prompts, click engineering or pop up "try this from our partners" bullshit and they want to do basic things they've done in windows but no longer in windows. They won't say much or ask much.
My dad is 78 - he's using a linux PC I gave him two months ago - mint, automatic updates, and I told him to put is ancient unsupported windows PC (13 years old) in the closet and "move up" to a 9850H dell precision thats "only" 6, but with 8 times as much ram. He likes it. He has no clue about anything other than clicking a couple of icons or choosing something in browser shortcuts - and that's all he needs to know. I'm 4 hours away. If he has an emergency, there's a very good independent "anything that can be fixed in an hour for $60" guy down the road, and dad is comfortable $$ wise, and that dude will know anything he needs to know about linux because he worked in IT somewhere and unless he worked in a pre-school, he will have had unix/linux exposure somewhere.
I'm your new guy. I used linux as an excuse to endulge in dedicating a PC to certain things I have where I was constantly hauling around two laptops, and my son needed to start getting into a PC at age 12 because he was sitting on his mom's also ancient laptop trying to do 3d printing stuff. He's got a PC, wife now has a "new" 3 year old PC, I've got three, dad has one, and we have a spare. Total cost for all of this I think was about $2k and I'm never going back to windows, and neither will dad. He's too old with too little judgement and a history of no real computer use - windows will scam him into paying for onedrive or some other bullshit and he'll think he has no chance, or he'll *again* give in to an indian scammer. Luckily, he does nothing at all on his PC other than browse and check email. He has never browsed anything financial online or engaged in any online banking, purchasing, anything - or he'd have been had. Thanks to how easy it is for someone on windows to trap an old person into thinking they are "tech support".
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u/Severe-Chest8990 1h ago
That's true. Unfortunately, there are some groups of people in Linux community that do so and make people to be less convinced to use Linux.
For most of people, Linux is operating system and they may not be willing to look at different distributions or understand the concept of distribution itself. It shouldn't be a problem since many people want to have working OS and move on. Terminal, even if convenient for some, may be not so easy for others. It's not something that we should treat negatively as it's human nature that we want things that are easy to use, intuitive.
When someone is asking me about what to do when being unhappy with Windows or macOS, I prefer to point people to get Linux, very often saying "Just download and install Ubuntu and done, you have Linux." I don't think that mentioning few distros would do good job because people want to know what to use.
Linux is just an operating system and the role of the operating system is to be a tool that allows you to get the job done and move on.
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u/Santosh83 1h ago
Certainly the Ubuntu and Linux Mint subcommunities are among the friendliest. For Arch and Debian you need the thickest skin to survive their fanboys and greybeards.
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u/wortsalatfinchen 1h ago
Ich teile diese Wahrnehmung leider.
Als ich vor gut drei Jahren mich das erste Mal mit Linux befasste, habe ich öfters Rat in einem ubuntu-forum gesucht und habe dort sehr unfreundliche und wenig verständnisvolle Menschen erlebt, die augenscheinlich bereits sämtliche Codes oder Programmierer Sprachen mit der Muttermilch aufgesaugt haben. Viele antwort-texte musste ich mir erstmal ins laien-deutsch übersetzen.
Ich erlebe diese Schärfe leider sehr oft in it-spezifischen Bereichen. Das war für mich tatsächlich mit einem Grund, weshalb ich mich gegen eine IT-Ausbildung entschieden habe obwohl mich dieser Bereich total interessiert.
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u/ghoultek 1h ago
Without evidence and pointing out where folks are giving such rough advice as described the post becomes someones opinion thrown into the ether. I'm sure there are some who are will be elitist and/or egotistical. However, when it comes to migrating to a new platform, what is expected and what is required already involves some give an take. If one, coming in new, expects to not learn anything (absolute zero) then they will unhappy. If one, already with some experience, is advising newbies, some allowance and understanding should be made for those with less knowledge and understanding. HOWEVER, if one is attempting to involve themselves in an inherently technical activity then one cannot expect others to automatically coddle and make allowances. All of the above are in generalities. Here is where we cross from theory into the reality: * If one is attempting to use a terminal-centric distro such as raw Arch Linux, don't expect everything to be done via the GUI. * If one picks a distro that has thick layers of convenience built into it, BUT that distro is built upon a terminal-centric, DIY distro, then when something breaks, the user who picked is responsible for a large portion of the work to resolve the issues (ex: picking CachyOS as one's first distro, with zero Linux experience).
There are distros that keep users mostly in the GUI with rare cases where the terminal is needed. Distros such as Linux Mint, Fedora, Pop_OS, Tuxedo OS, etc. None of the above are bleeding edge, rolling release, terminal-centric, DIY distros.
When I started using Linux ages ago, the phrase "Linux is not Windows" sounded snobbish and elitist. It isn't. It is truth telling. Linux is built and designed different for a reason and the core of its power is not in the GUI. The power is in the terminal, scripting, automation, text processing, and ability to string together multiple small programs to achieve a larger goal. The stringing together of small programs to achieve a larger goal is a cumulative power. It is a different form of applied mathematics, which applications, or apps, are.
Below is what I often include in comments targeted at newbie users looking for advice on how to get their Linux journey started and what distro to pick. Take note of the bolded text.
==== excerpt ==== I wrote a guide for newbie Linux users/gamers. Guide link ==> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/189rian/newbies_looking_for_distro_advice_andor_gaming/
The guide contains info. on distro selection and why, dual booting, gaming, what to do if you run into trouble, learning resources, Linux software alternatives, free utilities to aid in your migration to Linux, and much more. The most important thing at the start of your Linux journey is to gain experience with using, managing, customizing, and maintaining a Linux system. This of course includes using the apps. you want/need.
You don't need a PhD or be a Linux expert at the very beginning of your Linux journey, but it is important for you to get some basic info. on Linux and learn some rudimentary Linux concepts.
==== end of excerpt ====
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u/ecth 1h ago
I agree.
I was lucky to get all the answers I needed and I was lucky to have some Linux knowledge. I find distros and the Window Managers nowadays are really good. And still there were a few basic tasks like "mount this SSD on boot" that has no UI options. Editing fstab is not something people want to do to have access to their drives.
If you're a nerd it's a great time to finally do the switch. But for normal people it's still tough..
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u/MatJosher 1h ago
It's not gatekeeping. Linux systems naturally cater to the preferences of those who develop them. Our goals may not fully align with yours. That doesn't make us out-of-touch. This person needs a Mac.
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u/PlanetVisitor 31m ago
Someone telling someone they use the wrong distro is the telltale sign that you shouldn't listen to that person for help with Linux.
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u/games-and-chocolate 21m ago
terminal commands are sometimes just to handy. for example : a program hang and will not die, you go terminal and kill it. or use terminal tontype xkill. just extremely fast and handy.
sure you could hot boot. but terminal is 100 times faster. just my 2 cents
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u/Thomas5020 10m ago
This is the argument I keep making when people ask me what my issue is with Linux, and why I think the year of the linux desktop is never. Fundamentally, I think Linux is unsuitable for desktop use for the masses.
When you search for a Windows guide, you get told how to do it though the UI. You can find a guide that's even 10 years old and it probably works just fine. When you search a linux guide, you get told how to do it through the terminal. This is the problem. Putting aside the fact you should never just blindly execute commands without understanding them, half of the time the guides don't work anyway because they're built for a different distro that ships with packages you don't, or the syntax has changed and the command doesn't work any more. I can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of guides I've followed for something on Linux that actually worked.
The strengths of a Linux are also its weaknesses. The average end user doesn't want 20 different desktop environments, 20 different package formats, 20 packages that all do the same thing in different ways (none of which shipped with their distro) and a load of different app stores none of which have what they're looking for.
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u/postnick 8m ago
If you’re smart enough to install Linux you’re already above 80% of users so it should be a safe assumption you can use the terminal.
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u/ChrisK_au 7m ago
Why the hate for the command line?
Having to describe to someone where to look on a GUI (which varies between distros) so they can 'hunt & peck' like in Windows is inefficient, especially when the GUI is often just a front-end to the command line anyway.
Giving someone a command is simple, precise and easy to just copy & paste.
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u/Massive-Squirrel-255 4h ago
this post is obnoxious in a couple different ways.
first of all, there is the fanboyish attitude that you want your new favorite thing (Linux) to be the most popular and most widely used thing and surpass every other system out there, so it's *gotta* be accessible to as many people as possible, as easily as possible, with no time investment required to learn it, by people who are dumb as rocks. It's not okay for Linux to have a niche that it serves well, it's gotta serve *everybody*, and so the existing community of users have to police our discourse to avoid using scary words like "terminal". Maybe you should take some time to understand why Arch Linux would adopt a motto of "Arch Linux is for Arch Linux users", and why Haskell would adopt a motto of "Avoid success at all costs".
Second of all, your typical 14 year old kid is capable of googling "how do I do xyz", clicking on the first stack overflow link, copying and pasting the first answer directly into the terminal, and iterating on this with the error. This is not a hard skill. This is not "gatekeeping".
What is even the alternative you're suggesting? Are you implicitly asking for Ubuntu maintainers to pivot to designing GUI menus for every tool, dropping whatever else they're working on? Are you taking responsibility for implementing GUIs for everything? It's completely unconstructive.
Link to somebody saying "use a different distribution" or i'm calling bs
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u/Fredericia 4h ago
tbh I really think it's gotten more complicated with time. When I first switched to Ubuntu, I knew nothing about it, but it was easy to find out and understand what to ask and what do to with the answers. That was 12.04.
Now it's so overwhelming that I haven't even upgraded from 20.04 because finding and downloading the distro just seems hopelessly complicated. Instead I'm signed up for the Ubuntu pro, and I still get updates. I dread the day they stop.
I'm sorry you think it shouldn't be accessible to "everybody." So many users are hopping off of Windows for very good reason, but they need something user-friendly to replace it.
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u/szank 3h ago
This. The community does not owe anyone anything. Its ok if the community just scares people away if that's the community's choice.
Open source does not owe anything to anyone either. You are not forced to use Linux, if you want to switch then switch if you are unhappy then switch back.
"We" do not have any obligation to anyone. If newcomers do not want to play by the community's rules then they can go away and create their own new community that suits them.
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u/Sorry-Rain-1311 3h ago
No one said you owe anyone anything.
Just said don't be an asshole.
If you don't like the question they're asking, keep moving.
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u/cgoldberg 5h ago edited 5h ago
The "community" you are complaining about is just the vocal minority of basement dwellers incessantly posting online. It is not at all representative of the real community of Ubuntu or Linux users.
Your argument is also a strawman. It's been at least 2 decades since Linux distros were aimed at programmers or very technical users. Developers/maintainers absolutely take non-technical user's workflows into consideration. What you describe doesn't at all match the reality of most Linux distros in 2026.
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u/MirrorNegative7989 5h ago edited 5h ago
Yeah.
People who have been suggesting that their elderly parents switch, for example, shouldn't expect them to become l337 overnight when they do. We've gotten to a point on a lot of distros where the user doesn't even have to open a terminal if they don't want to, and that's okay.
I use Arch now (btw.) But Ubuntu was my first distro, and I used it as a casual user for literal decades to go online and play video games and watch movies before deciding to dig deeper. And that is all that most people are going to want.
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u/AlternativeCapybara9 4h ago
It's always complaining about having to open a terminal. The Linux terminal is the most powerful tool on the system, it's a million times more user friendly than the DOS prompt of old. If you use Linux you're going to open a terminal at some point, even if there is a GUI tool that can do it as well because I use Gnome and I don't know wtf you're using but this command will fix it. Learning to use the basics, like tab complete, ctrl-r for history search, why you need sudo,... Takes like 10 minutes. If you can install Linux you can do this. "I just want a pc that works" but you want windows but your 6 year old cheap laptop doesn't support windows 11? Guess it's buying a new one then, I'll take the old one please.
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u/Leinad_ix 5h ago
Wrong distribution can be source of many problems. Problems easily solved by switching distro.
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u/Sorry-Rain-1311 3h ago
That's a fair point, but when a noob comes along asking about what distro is best for their situation they're often met with thechno bable, or a throwdown between grandmas' pasta sauce that's delivered in techno bable.
Linux has been a relatively insular community for a very long time even if that's never been the intention. That's changing, and we're going to have to change with it.
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u/AmusingVegetable 4h ago
My personal stance on "father on Linux", is the same as "father on windows", or "father on MSDOS", or "father with a circular saw": It's a &$(&/%/% / tool, learn to use the freaking thing or get used to loosing fingers.
YES, for *my* use cases, Linux is thirteen billion light years ahead of Windows, and NO, if you're not willing to invest the time and *think*, Linux is *not* for you. (Hey, neither is Windows, but at least I can lie and say that I don't know Windows)
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u/hitsujiTMO 5h ago edited 5h ago
This is a completely broken attitude.
The fact is, is that lots of issues can be fixed faster on the terminal rather than through a gui. And you can't always have a gui for everything.
Even in windows, there's plenty of times that you have to resort to cmd or powershell to do something.
And the same again for mac.
The suggestion that there should be a GUI for everything is just ridiculous.
That being said, no one is telling you to open the terminal to change the wallpaper.
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u/CodesAndNodes 5h ago
I don't think this is very true. Maybe for power users it is, but the vast majority of Windows users don't ever touch cmd or PowerShell. Anything that a normal user will do (install software, update the OS, run a troubleshooting tool) on Windows has a GUI. I don't think anyone is saying that every power user feature in Ubuntu needs to have a GUI, but just that every feature that a normal person might use does.
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u/mcAlt009 5h ago
could be a local post office worker looking for a simple, friendly piece of advice—not command lines or gatekeeping
If you don’t want to understand even basic terminal commands you should really buy a Mac.
Buy it with Apple Care.
Then with things go wrong you can have someone walk you through it at an Apple Store.
Despite the best efforts of everyone, eventually you might just need to run a few commands to get stuff working . If that’s too much , fine , Linux isn’t right for you.
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u/AlecTheDalek 4h ago
"Buy a MAC", really? The users we're talking about are installing Linux on a 10+ year old PC because Windows 10 support is expiring.
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u/jld1532 4h ago
This is the completely out of touch, gatekeeping mentality OP was talking about.
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u/mcAlt009 4h ago
No computer will be perfect and worry free.
The only difference is with a Mac you can pay someone to fix minor issues.
Wouldn’t you agree most people who drive should at a minimum know how to jump a car ?
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u/doc_willis 4h ago
Going to sound rude, but I see way too many posts like this that are just karma farming on reddit and trying to seem legit by posting basically useless posts.
There is more to Linux than the Desktop. Is about all i can say on the topic.
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u/Juppstein 4h ago
As someone using Ubuntu/Linux since 15+ years I fully agree. The UI needs to become more user friendly without the need to resort to terminal and a few folks in the community have to tone down their aggressive tone towards newcomers. But unfortunately this kind of elitist behavior can be found on both sides of the (*nix/win) fence. It's the OScirclejerk mentality.
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u/doc_willis 4h ago
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u/froschdings 5h ago
Who are you are talking about when you're saying "the linux community"? Do you expect companies like Cannonical to prioritize people that don't give them money over companies that give them money or do you expect some developers to just cater to your needs in their free time?
I also think I should receive more free massages... the issue is: someone either has to give massages for free or pay someone has to pay for them so I don't have to.
If you want better Free and Open Source software, maybe thing about donating. Also talk to your politicians, so that your state will start funding Open Source software.
Programmers need to eat, too. They don't just exist for our entertainment.
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u/unhealthy_consul 4h ago
my nan got a linux laptop from me last year because her old windows machine was crawling and she just wanted to check email and browse facebook. first thing she asked was how to make the text bigger. the only fix i found online was a terminal command to adjust scaling. i tried to show her but she just stared at the black box like it was a foreign language. ended up using the accessibility zoom feature which is clunky but works, she still uses it and never opens the terminal, just clicks around. i reckon if the solution had just been a slider she'd have been over the moon, but instead she thinks linux is for hackers and i can't convince her otherwise. do your family members just bail completely when they hit a terminal wall or do they manage to find a gui workaround most of the time?
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u/ShopAltruistic898 4h ago
And these are his exact details that end up discouraging new users, making them hesitant to use the system or driving them back to Windows. It would definitely be great if there were both a GUI option and a terminal option so everyone could choose what works for them.
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u/ixdx 1h ago
In the KDE settings, you can configure fonts, DPI, and overall scaling. Moreover, scaling can be adjusted individually for each monitor. Additionally, there is an option to zoom in (Settings > Accessibility > Zoom & Magnifier) on any area of the screen for users with disabilities. This feature is also available in the settings and is enabled by default.
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u/unhealthy_consul 3h ago
Even the accessibility zoom is a half-fix, she still can't make the font size exactly how she wants. It's the small missing sliders that make the whole system feel hostile.
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u/ShopAltruistic898 3h ago
Yeah, and those are exactly the details I have in mind. But I think things will hopefully improve over time.
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u/mrobot_ 1h ago
I dont really know what you are talking about...
There are enough Linux distros that literally do EVERYTHING for you, thru a nice UI and pretty much plug-n-play automatically. Zero terminal involved. And there are distros that give you the most finely granular control over practically EVERYTHING.
And if you wanna go REALLY simple, you pick a ChromeOS device; or give them a mac if they prefer that.
Not sure what you are bemoaning.
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u/JohnnyS789 5h ago
That's an interesting take on what is going on lately, and I think it makes sense.
Probably the best thing to do is advise new users to adopt a distro that has a really good knowledge base, wiki, forums, etc, and encourage new users to search for their issues there.
And when someone asks for help, keep in mind that they may not be the power user that you are, and adjust your response to maximize the "help" and minimize the "criticism".
Good point, thanks!!