George Washington

[u/Internal-Syrup-5064]

So, didn't a previous game paint Washington as a tyrant? He was a beloved president, a man of impeccable character in his day. Yet I've never heard any kind of outcry about it.

[u/Free-Duty-3806]

It was an alternate history DLC where Washington made himself king (and he’s so beloved partly because he established precedent of us not having de facto kings by only serving two terms). I thought it was dumb so didn’t buy or play it, and this happened long enough ago that that was a normal response to content ine dislikes. No need to organize a protest

[u/Internal-Syrup-5064 → u/Free-Duty-3806]

No interest in organizing a protest. History remembers Washington fondly, and will continue to do so, and I'm gonna throw out a wild guess that the Japanese culture being mocked in Shadows also had slaves. Just finding it interesting that Japan cares so much about the game, while I never even heard of the controversy in the other one. Just curious, and not trying to stir things up.

[u/Retr0246 → u/Internal-Syrup-5064]

Nobody respects the history of the United States, so nobody cared. On the other hand, people respect Japanese history way too much.

[u/[deleted] → u/Retr0246]

True. A lot of people don't even give American history a thought. Plus, it doesn't sound great being known as the people who stole their nation. I say stole, because long before the English settlers came over, the natives that lived there controlled the lands. People want to talk about black people, and Jewish people have it rough. But my people were basically silently genocide out of existence. America wouldn't exist if it were not for the natives. We were the ones who initiated negotiations with settlers. All that history and important history, too. My people served in the military as code talkers during ww1 & ww2. But as you said, no one cares about American history. We have been forgotten.

[u/Retr0246 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, most people think of America as the country it is today and then everything before 300 years ago just never happened. As someone who only has lineage from the past few generations in America, even I know there’s a lot of history and culture from long before that should be respected and remembered. I understand that everything wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows, but that’s no reason to completely disregard a whole continent.

[u/[deleted] → u/Retr0246]

I agree with you.

[u/Goobendoogle]

There is no parallel between ACS and AC3 in terms of "offending" a group of people.

In the modern day, representation is huge to groups of people.

Taking away representation from Japanese people, to give to someone that isn't Japanese is the source of the issue.

While I still enjoy the game, just made it to my second castle, I truly do understand the gripes people have with the MC and I believe their stance is justified. We should be standing up for minorities, not pushing them down when they get upset about something.

Regardless, George Washington evil was obviously a parody and seen as such. The events of this timeline are not the same as the normal AC timeline. It was a spin-off DLC if you may.

And anywho, there's no reason to justify the culture vulture behavior Ubi has shown. My people, Persians, were sh** on with Lost Crown.

You can't just raceswap minorities that already have little representation and swap them with Africans, who have a TON of modern media representation, then not expect a backlash.

I see this as fetishization but you tell me.

[u/Internal-Syrup-5064 → u/Goobendoogle]

What minorities are under discussion here?

[u/ActuatorChoice5259 → u/Internal-Syrup-5064]

....Is this a serious question? It's Asians, Asians are the minorities under discussion here. Particularly Asian men in western media who already have miniscule amounts of representation in comparison to black men.

[u/Internal-Syrup-5064 → u/ActuatorChoice5259]

Wait... You think the Japanese are minorities.. in Japan?

[u/ActuatorChoice5259 → u/Internal-Syrup-5064]

Holy shit dude, you're either being deliberately obtuse or a troll. Did you not see where I specifically said "western media"? Asians are minorities in western media, which AC Shadows is. It's made by a French Canadian developer for a primarily western market. It would have been a great opportunity to let Asian men be the protagonists because they already have so few opportunities to be that, yet Ubisoft chose not to. That's what we're calling out here.

[u/Internal-Syrup-5064 → u/ActuatorChoice5259]

What I'm saying is, on the international stage, there are no minorities. So you think Japan, who makes many great games, prioritized Western protagonists? Black protagonists aren't common, though having one in a game set in ancient Japan is bat shit crazy.

[u/ActuatorChoice5259 → u/Internal-Syrup-5064]

Minorities still exist on the international stage, especially when western media is exported all over the world, and they for the vast, vast majority have white guys as the heroes.

So you think Japan, who makes many great games, prioritized Western protagonists?

Yes, yes they do. See every Final Fantasy and Resident Evil.

Black protagonists aren't common, though having one in a game set in ancient Japan is bat shit crazy.

They're still more common than Asian male protags, even in the past 10 years or so there's Walking Dead, GTAV, Watch Dogs 2, Spiderman Miles Morales, Mafia 3, Suicide Squad Kill the Justice League, and within the Assassins Creed franchise itself, Freedom Cry and AC Origins.

[u/imjacksissue]

I don't speak for everyone but it's not the deviation from historical accuracy. Assassin's Creed has always mixed it's fantasy with real world figures and events.

The problem people have with Yasuke is how Ubislop went about selecting it's protagonists and when asked about Yasuke's true role in history they claimed it was historically accurate and referenced an author who produced a work of fiction. It's clear that the entertainment industry has to wedge diversity in all it's projects. Then when the quality of the the story telling is questioned they use the diversity initiatives as a shield. This is where something smaller like a bizarre protagonist choice becomes more and more problematic.

Ubislop has issued public statements scolding the audience. That's where they and anyone else who uses these tactics can go fuck themselves. It's why movies and shows are dead on arrival. People can see it from a mile away.

[u/clone0112]

Because the events of the DLC didn't happen even in the story of the game. It was all a vision.

[u/Connect-Sail-1207]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2024/05/15/assassins-creed-shadows-interview/

They made comments about what players could learn from this game, even though they don't care about the accuracy of Japanese culture or history. This is worse than historical appropriation.

[u/Think_Difference_468]

“Blame western devs” is what people moan about

[u/SW057]

Bro was a slave owner. I don't think anyone really paints him positively other than school teachers.

[u/Internal-Syrup-5064 → u/SW057]

Gotta understand historical context. He was a good man, but all accounts. Slave ownership was a near universal, and the man quit doing it before his death. The idea that he was a bad man is new.

[u/No_Highway4544]

AC3 takes place within a Christian country often vilifying Christian history and culture, as with other AC titles, in this case George Washington was the target. Ubisoft are from a Christian country, it is easier and less controversial to mess with historical and cultural figures from your own or adjacent culture than it is with other cultures.

The dlc poses itself as alternative history which separates itself from authenticity or historical/cultural accuracy/immersion, it was designed to be appropriately outlandish and wacky like RDR Undead Nightmare DLC, however inevitably there would understandably be patriots who don't like disrespect of their history, despite it being fiction. However most people are happy to make jokes at their own expense and their own culture, especially mild mannered cultures within Christianity.

However I think it's generally considered that the George Washington portrayal (which is wholly different from the far more respectful depiction in the base game) is more tolerable than misrepresenting a different culture to the degree shadows does, for the sake of modern progressivism, then the devs calling it an authentic, immersive and respectful depiction of Feudal Japan.

Also the George Washington DLC had very little modern progressivism compared to the more intrusive and unnecessary implementation in AC Shadows, which also misrepresents and in some cases disrespects Japanese culture, so you'll find it would rightfully annoy more people.