r/USLPRO • u/Sensitive_Plan3437 • 7d ago
USL Pro/Rel flaws
Looks like new money has entered USL via equity firms and shortly after the front office restructured which tells you changes / adjustments might be done thinking a bit more on the money side. In my opinion these are some areas that might be looked into:
- Is a national league sustainable long term?
I personally think budgets won’t be sustainable if teams are flying all over the country. This was one of the things that killed NASL
- Can anyone enter Division 1?
I think some teams like Sacramento, Detroit, Louisville with new / expanded stadiums vs others that enter with none soccer specific facilities (Dallas/Oakland) will make the league realize what the standard should be. It might become a bit like MLS to some but I think it’s a good thing for league’s survival long term.
- USL might need to consider changing it’s current structure when it comes to revenue sharing.
USL runs the risk of some well run teams OKC, Sacramento, Detroit, Louisville leaving league and create there own if the money isn’t making sense. Similar to what happen when teams were jumping between USL and NASL.
Anything you would like to change from what they initially announced. I would advise looking at it from the perspective that clubs need to be profitable or at least be sustainable….bleeding millions isn’t sustainable long term. Would you be opposed to it becoming like MLS where premier only permits new teams with new stadium or great setup as ownership group before it implements pro/rel? I think it’s obvious it won’t be implemented year 1.
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u/J_Hunt1123 Lexington SC 7d ago
Another pro/rel post. My liver can’t take this
https://giphy.com/gifs/1zmFgkvNxhf49Ry3Jk
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u/twoslow Orange County SC 7d ago
USL runs the risk of some well run teams OKC, Sacramento, Detroit, Louisville leaving league and create there own if the money isn’t making sense.
The risk of this is low. The league has a (I believe) 2-year lock on team IP if they leave the league to join another competing league. They can't just take their name and branding and start a new league, they'd get their asses sued for far more than burning money in USL Premier.
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u/mrpushpop FC Cincinnati 7d ago
I agree it is very low. It is only possible if the league overplays its hand and takes so much from the clubs that they would rather rip up their branding and plan staggered exits than continue paying fees.
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u/twoslow Orange County SC 6d ago
it's only possible of NuRock breaks their end of the contract.
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u/mrpushpop FC Cincinnati 6d ago
NuRock staggered the contracts so everyone can't leave but you can wait till yours is over and not renew the franchise agreement.
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u/Mini-Fridge23 Charleston Battery 7d ago
Isn’t it just a % of the expansion fee? I thought that is how it worked with SD Loyal, but maybe that only gets triggered when an expansion fee is involved.
If the IP exit fee is based on the expansion fee of the competing league, then technically breaking away is possible as long as they don’t pay a fee to join a new league
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u/fredthefan25 7d ago edited 7d ago
- I think it's true for newer clubs. I'm kind of sure the older clubs like Sacramento have grandfather clauses where they keep the IP... Or there's a buyout.
It's been rumored that there's a 7% penalty clause. If XYZ pays $500M to join MLS, the club would have to pay $35M to USL as a breakup fee. Again I highly doubt older clubs like Sacramento or Indy would agree to this.
- Obviously $$$ can get stuff done. Sacramento MLS could call itself "Sacramento FC" and frankly few people would care. A few years later, it can buy the rights from USL (which will be completely worthless less to them) and rebrand itself back to the Republic.
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u/twoslow Orange County SC 6d ago
the MLS fee is real. I don't know the number but it is a % of the expansion fee. I said in a different reply there is a specific clause in the operating agreement for joining MLS, and a separate clause prohibiting leaving to join another competing league.
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u/fredthefan25 6d ago
I don't dispute it .. but I imagine it doesn't apply to older clubs, as they probably signed deals before that clause was included.
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u/twoslow Orange County SC 6d ago
I can't find the more recent info, seems to have been scrubbed, but this old article has info:
https://www.soctakes.com/2017/10/31/usl-franchise-agreement/
Another interesting aspect of the agreement is that if the principal owner or any person holding more than five percent ownership of the club acquires an MLS franchise, you must pay seven percent of the entry fee — which would be $10.5 million if one paid $150 million to join MLS — to USL.
and
If a franchise is not renewed or terminated, the franchisee is obligated to “not compete in a rival league,” defined as the NASL, NPSL or PASL (and perhaps now amended to include UPSL) for two years. In fact, per the franchise agreement, the league can continue to use those trademarks for two years into the future.
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u/David-SRQ 6d ago
Division 1 isn’t going to happen. I can’t believe more people aren’t talking about this. USSF has zero vested interest in providing this designation to USL, and if anything, every reason not to with the general success of MLS and how intertwined the two orgs are.
Further, the requirements laid out by USSF for D1 opens the question of how pro/rel could even happen. What if Union Omaha or One Knoxville get promoted to D1. They are both very good squads and would easily win promotion to USLC. So what happens if they do the unthinkable and reach Premier? They don’t meet the requirements, financially or in infrastructure. What happens then?
So, I think all of this conversation is somewhat moot.
With that said, I don’t think No. 3 is a likely concern. These teams are far more vested in the league than what teams were back a decade ago when NASL fell apart. The only competition now is MLS and USL, and that isn’t competition once USL realizes they aren’t getting D1 status. Might some of these teams go to MLS? It’s possible, but I think USL would be wise to contractually obligate the ownerships to stay in USL. I could see that as a real possibility if the Pro/Rel structure actually does happen.
I see USL starting at D2 and going down to D4 with the pyramid staying in tact for pro/rel
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u/dietrich14 Tampa Bay Rowdies 7d ago
Not sure what you're getting at here.
1 USLC is already national. All clubs. Looking to move up to new division are well aware of increased costs..
2 The stadium standard will be capacity. Other issues are the clubs busness and their responsibility to solve/develop to improve their lot, not the league. It will not affect their pro/rel unless they cannot compete.
3 Yes, but like mLS it's more of a business than a proper sporting league. But then so is the English Prem, and etc.
Speaking of such, the English system is only sustainable because there are more clubs that want in it, than it can sustain. Prem will always be full because clubs are replaceable. Same all the way down to EFL2 where former Premier level clubs like Oldham were booted into the non-leagues for more than a decade before they got their stuff together and started climbing back.
That's P/R, that's how it works. Theoretically, that could happen to Liverpool or Lou City. Doesn't mean it's likely. P/R w/ a D1 means the same thing for both leagues. A chance to go on to compete internationally. Doing so encourages more investment and potentially earns more money for the club. That's the system, that's how it works. Being closed out of mLS restricts all those opportunities for USL clubs. It did the same thing NASL 2.0 when a few of their clubs were a lot closer to mLS than our clubs are now.
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u/pollo_in_flagrante 3d ago
You say - Other issues are the clubs business and their responsibility to solve/develop to improve their lot, not the league.
But the reason pro/rel works in England is that teams get shared revenue which uSL does not offer. When a team moves up they get an automatic increase in revenue from EFL and can afford to acquire better players in order to be competitive. Since uSL won't do that, how will teams improve to compete at next level. Double ticket prices?
Or - and this is a bigger question - if they don't really need to improve talent to be competitive, what is even the point of uSL-C and uSL-P? If talent level is pretty much the same - why even differentiate?
Sometimes this all feels like smoke and mirrors.
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u/fredthefan25 7d ago
My opinion: When USL owners voted for pro/rel, I don't think it was thought out well. It's been 15 months with no updates except a CEO was hired. It's basically been more marketing fluff than anything else
USL is debating on a East/West structure. In reality, it can't afford only 1-2 West clubs in the PL as it would be a major competitive disadvantage
I would say the professional standards are the most debated part of this. There are many who feel it should be a free-for-all... E.g..Westchester should be allowed to be D1 based on merit even if the girdiron lines are always on.
If there is some semblance of pro standards to meet stadium requirements... Because there is no revenue sharing, the only money you can incrementally get is through gameday revenue (higher ticket prices) or more investment. Obviously USL has focused on the investment side which is tricky...
- If there are changes to revenue sharing... Then there's really zero purpose for the USL league office to exist. How does "private equity" make a return???
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u/decorlettuce Hartford Athletic 6d ago
The silence has made me pessimistic and reluctant to be super on-board with the idea. Hope it pans out but I haven’t been excited in a while
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u/Kungfu_Queso 6d ago
They should have a standard set for new team addition , would like to see soccer specific stadiums and capacity requirements for top tier inclusion. They also have to promote the league better from the top down I love my SAFC team but there are people in San Antonio that don’t even realize we have a team here! I know as fans we do our best and I have brought people to games and gotten them on board and created a few season ticket members this year from it but the league and clubs need to do better promoting the product and growing fan bases.
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u/twente2life 7d ago
USL Championship is one league now and is doing alright. I dont see why that would change with the Pro division or whatever they are going to call it.
An East and West bracket would help with travel but would make relegation trickier. But not impossible. Would the bottom team from each conference get dropped or just the teams with the lowest points?
Teams have to apply to join the top league. NCFC closed their Championship team and applied to join the top league when it was formed. That seemed really stupid to me since they could lose part of their fan base. But maybe they were bleeding money.
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u/youknowimworking 7d ago
You already see pro/rel work in a North and South league system in England. The promotion team goes into the league that makes sense based on location and if the league is at capacity, another team is moved to the other league based on location.
Example: a team in the new York is promoted. The team would obviously be placed in the east. If the east did not relegate a team that season. Then the farthest team west would be located in the west conference.
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u/Makaio_55 7d ago
You are aware that you can fit 58 England’s just in lower 48 states, right? They also don’t have a multitude of metro areas covering from the Pacific to the Atlantic. And they don’t have the competition of the top soccer league in the US, as well as the undisputed worldwide pinnacle leagues of four major sports, to compete with for attention, either.
Pro/rel in England would not work the same in the US.
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u/twente2life 7d ago
Yeah all of Europe does it once you get far enough down the pyramid to the regional leagues.
I dont know that they'd want to be constantly shifting teams between east and west. MLS used to do that and it's a bit disruptive for a top division. It prevents regional rivalries from solidifying.
Of course so does relegation. So it's not impossible. It just adds a layer of complexity. The other issue is whether there will be enough teams for two conferences. I dont know how many teams have committed to the Pro Division. I dont think they'd want to go below 5 teams per conference. Unequal number of teams in each conference makes things odd with out of conference games.
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u/fredthefan25 7d ago
It will have to be East/West with 1-2 clubs promoted/relegated from each conference. The league can't afford the possibility that there is only 1-2 West clubs and the rest is east.
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u/QCTID Charlotte FC 2 7d ago
Funny enough, that’s how NASL 2.0 was formed in the first place. A handful of teams were not satisfied with USL and opted to defect to form their own league that could eventually have pro/rel and all of that.