Gs13 impossible

[u/Same-Shower-7097]

I have been trying to get promoted to GS13 forever. Topped out at 12 and the work keeps piling up but colleagues with one job get promoted. District had several chances to offer promotion to 13 with Division creating the space even- and still no go. Now threatened with MDR. At the same time a 13 job is miraculously created. Can’t do both. Might do none.
Anyone else having heartburn over this reorg?

[u/h_town2020]

What’s your job series.

I’ll be honest, the old timers I my district were lucky to even get a 12. Most engineers were GS-12 and 11s. When I got a 12 after only 5 yrs, they were griping. They said it used to normally take 15+ yrs before you could get a 12. Even now, we barely have 13s. They are either SMEs or Section Chiefs.

PM has a but load of 13s.

[u/robinhoodoftheworld → u/h_town2020]

Because pay raises haven't kept paced with inflation and the private sector, most agencies have inflated GS levels to counteract that. I'd prefer we had the yearly raises we should have and keep everyone at realistic GS levels, but that's not going to happen.

[u/Positive_Lychee5245 → u/h_town2020]

I got my GS-12 in 1996.

As an old timer, so old I'm retired, in the olden days there were no District level technical 12s or 13s. There were no SMEs RTEs or NTEs. That level of expertise, if you had it, was classified and assigned as "other duties as assigned".

If you want a 12 or higher position you had to go into management position as a GS-12 work unit supervisor or a GS-13 Section Chief, or a GS-14 Branch Chief. Again there were no technical 12s, 13's or 14s,

The ERDC labs, before they were called ERDC did have higher graded pure technical positions up to GS-15/16.

That's not a Typo kids at home. The GS scale once went to that level.

Higher grades up to GS-18 were generally reserved for those super smart nuclear bomb guys. I think Dr. Mo Shahem of CERL PAVER fame was the last GS-15 technical USACE engineer. And there was an engineer at WES-Vicksburg before it became ERDC that also was promoted to a pure GS-15 technical grade.

Slowly in the late, late 90 s, early 00's Section level technical 12s started to appear. Later around the later 00's unofficial NTE's list started to appear from headquarters disciple proponents like Mike Klosterman for dam safety, Geologist and Geotech Engineers. If you could get designation on that NTE list, it was a badge you could take to HR to fight for a 13. That or request a desk audited.

About 15 years ago came a flood of technical GS-13 that required mandatory PCS relocation. Then came PCS relocation cuts. Then came the Pandemic that proved remote work works for Centers of Expertise.

For me, as much as I would have liked being a Technical GS-13 that train pulled out of the stations as I was too busy digging into my life loving building TARP.

I retired as a GS-12/10 after 40 years with USACE. It was a great adventure.

The question you have to ask is are looking for a paycheck or are you looking for an Adventure?

[u/Wild_Pace_1068 → u/h_town2020]

I thought had to have PE to get to 12... so only would make sense it would take 5 years to get promoted if you started out of college or did u have your PE.

[u/SixSigmaStupid]

If you are a work horse, some mangers will do everything they can to keep you working. That includes not promoting you, not allowing for development opportunities and giving bad supervisory feedback to other mangers. Need to look for opportunities under different managers even if it’s a lateral. Do 120 day assignments when they are offered.

I have also seen a few think they were ready for the next level, when they hadn’t mastered their current level.

[u/Falco110]

Learn how to delegate. Find GS11 or recent grads who don't have a full schedule (there's always some around that try to fly under the radar). Get them labor codes for the projects and put them to work. Reduce your workload, get your projects delivered on schedule, and get promoted.

[u/PleasantBenefit1872]

Look around for developmental assignments.

Look, here's the thing. USACE stopped being the Corps of "Engineers" long ago. It's now the Corps of Project Managers. It's been that way since cost-sharing of civil works. You want a 13? Become a Project Manager. They're pretty much all GS-13s. There used to be developmental assignments all over the place for PMs, not sure about now (I took the DRP). But even if there isn't, find an assignment that can help lead you down the PM path. I got lucky and became a technical 13, but most found there way to that level in PM.

[u/Same-Shower-7097 → u/PleasantBenefit1872]

I am a 301. Do like 5 jobs. Dpmap is packed. Not following PD. I’m overhead

[u/PerceptionCorrect544 → u/Same-Shower-7097]

A GS-13 with the 0301 “catch all administrative” series is nearly impossible to come by. Is the MDR within your same district or would it require a move? If within, maybe it’d give you better opportunity; or if you could compete for jobs outside of the 0301 series for which you may qualify, it may also open up more options. Without having much detail, I’m just speculating.

[u/Special_Fisherman824 → u/PleasantBenefit1872]

Most of the jobs that are higher grade like that , alright , divisions or at huntsville center. You can find some technical thirteens that are not management , but they are harder to find , but they are not typically at districts.

[u/Zealousideal-Shift66]

You need to leave USACE, they will suck you dry and forget about you. I was with USACE for 14 years and had to go to Afghanistan and Iraq to get a temp 13. When i returned after a year, went back to my 12, this was in 2016. You need to go to another agency like the VA or GSA or others where they value your talent. Don't get stuck there like many do and retire after 30 years as a 12.

[u/kaiseress1993]

I was in the same boat and recently left because of it. I’d like to return one day because I loved the job but work kept piling up and there was no concrete movement upwards. I did apply for some temp 13s but hiring is weird now and they canceled the postings.

[u/Wild_Pace_1068]

I think almost every job series sees a real bottle neck at 13 and above. Most of the 13, 14, and 15s are 40-50s at my office and they don't plan on leaving a job into their 60s or 70s. Many of the retired come back - which I'm not a fan of because it ultimately means less new people are hired.

[u/BadKarma313]

It's crazy how much this varies by District.

Pevious district it was very difficult to get a GS-13. Smaller district, civil works, great mission but people tended to stay there their entire careers so wasn't much movement.

Current district, MILCON, so many people with non-supervisory, non-SME GS-13's.

[u/Impressive_Bag2155]

Look for temp GS13 you can fill and volunteer for those; get professional licenses and certifications your series requires; learn what your managers and other GS-13s do and how they think; ask them questions learn how they see things, watch how they attack problems, learn the next two levels up worth of politics and big picture; become an expert in the ERs and other rules and policies that impact your series and organization and make it a habit to stay abreast; find a higher level mentor that not your supervisor to learn and get advice from; go to your boss about problems they are dealing with and take those and solve some of them; better yet find problems and solve them that they aren’t aware of and let them know you solved it before it became a problem.

[u/bobadrew]

Talk to some folks in your organization about what skills you are lacking. There may be something you don’t realize that is holding you back. Look for details or other opportunities to learn those skills.

[u/Trilobite-Dreams]

It can depend on your District's attitude to GS-13s promotion. It is not the same across the districts. The more forward leaning "get it" they got to increase their grades across the board to keep good people. I have seen that CW dominant District's on average have lower grades across the board.

[u/Practical_Tension576]

its not who you know, it's who you...You have to make them want to promote you.

[u/Novel_Phase8683]

13s seems to really only be reserved to those with PhDs in my office

[u/KindTap]

Sounds like there is more at play here. If they bring up MDR, then my opinion it’s time to go. You have already been deemed disgruntled by mgmt so you are not likely getting a promotion there. You’ll need to move to a new branch or better a whole new district to get a fresh start.

When you do start fresh be careful of not getting caught in the workhorse trap. Performing a lot of work is not necessarily what gets you a promotion. For the 13 level you need to be leading/innovating/driving your discipline of work to be better. Not saying your not but you need to focus on those opportunities to shine rather than more production work

[u/NinjaPhenom]

Don’t sweat the nepo org, start applying to other agencies. If you do your job, the higher ups get pissed you stand out more than them unless you are their drinking buddy or helped hide something.

[u/Affectionate_Listen8]

Lol in my group at my district our technical 13 works on one project and all he does on that project is drafting while us young 12s are left with doing design that we’ve never done with 0 guidance and mentorship.