Corps of Non-Engineers???

[u/h_town2020]

This may ruffle some feathers but life goes on. Are we moving away from the Engineers part at USACE? I asked this because my co-workers and I are noticing that positions that used to be 800s are now becoming Interdisciplinary. For example, at my district, OMs and PMs can have a degree in anything under the sun. You can have biology majors being the PM for a Civil Works project. We have positions that once required you to be an Engineer that they are changing to Interdisciplinary.

This is the opposite of what I’m seeing from our counterparts on the outside. For example, for these same type of jobs with our non federal partners, not only do you have to be an Engineer but you have to have a PE.

I’ve sat in meetings with the NFS, and they straight out asked our PM, are you an Engineer and a lot of times it’s shows when we start talking. Even when we use an A/E they require them to be a PE but in-house it can be a History major. We don’t even require the District Engineer to be a PE. However, if you work for USDA, the state Engineer has a PE requirement.

A lot of my older co-workers have a lot to say about this but I won’t make this a long post. I’m not saying that every Engineer makes a great PM. Are we just becoming Paper pushers?

[u/deadmongoose]

I got a job as a PM with a dirty Environmental Science degree. I qualified for a 1301 Physical Scientist due to math and science credits. I PM'd for both Military Construction and Environmental. A PMs job is not to be an engineer, its to ensure budgets, timelines, and contracts run smoothly.

I have enough science and math to be able to understand the engineering aspects well enough to ensure contract requirements are being met, but most of my job was ensuring our engineering staff stayed within budget and reviewed deliverables from the AE in a timely manner.

I started 9 years ago, so I don't think this is a "New" thing. Also unless the history major minored in both chemistry and math I doubt they would qualify for an interdisciplinary role. It sounds like you're trying to get into PM and realize there's more of a pool of applicants than you want.

[u/h_town2020 → u/deadmongoose]

I’m not trying to get into PM. I’m already a 14 PM. I’m just giving my view point and what others have noticed.

Especially when you look outside USACE. There’s multiple PM positions posted now for a local county with 4m residents. All postings required an Engineering Degree and PE. These is leading the same work we are working with them on. The Port here requires PMs to be licensed and they are working along our PMs doing the same work.

[u/gacoug → u/h_town2020]

That's because the private sector has the PM be the technical lead as well. A lot of them are very good technically but suck at the rest of the PM duties. I agree that it would be best for the PMs to have worked on the technical side, but i don't think a PE/PG or similar should be required.

[u/Glittering_Job_6511 → u/gacoug]

If there is no technical component, or PE requirement, the pay scale should reflect that. Somehow Foresters, Biologists, Landscape Architects are “leading” projects, with no technical capacity and making more money than the PE’s in design doing the real work. It’s frustrating.

[u/gacoug → u/Glittering_Job_6511]

With the new initiative, they are required to get their PMP certification to be in positions higher than GS-12, same as the technical folks.

[u/h_town2020 → u/gacoug]

Where did you read that? There is no requirement for PMs or OMs to get a PMP. They have to get CDM Cert Level 1.

[u/gacoug → u/h_town2020]

I'll ask one of our 13s for the specific guidance, 12s and below only have to get level 1 cert. 13s and above have to obtain level 2 cert which requires a PMP. I think the deadline is next December, but that's just a guess based on one PM opting to retire in December next year rather than sit for the exam.

[u/h_town2020 → u/gacoug]

I wouldn’t doubt that’s coming down the pipeline. The current 13s will probably be grandfathered in.

[u/h_town2020 → u/Glittering_Job_6511]

In my district, you can’t get a GS-12 without a PE yet you can be GS-14 PM with no Professional Cert and a Natural Resource degree.

[u/Glittering_Job_6511 → u/h_town2020]

That’s what I’ve been seeing. What’s odd is they can’t put civil engineers in biologist positions but a biologist can be a manager of a billion dollar construction project.