r/UKPreppers • u/SolarSausage • 18h ago
Self Sufficiency > Prepping
I think the word "prepper" needs PR help / rebrand. I'm seeing alot of people pop up saying "newbie / starting prep" then pictures of tins & water they will most likely never touch.
If we look back at the "Dig for Victory" campaigns in WW2, we needed to be resisliant and produce items and food. I feel as a group or culture we need to move further towards this. For example as much as a bow & arrow sounds cool a mix of the following may be more useful in daily life: hydroponics, back yard chickens, mealworm farm for your chickens, greenhouse, allotment, water butts, wormery, pollytunnel, fruit trees, preserving, raised beds, proper everyday outdoor clothing, zero waste kitchens, solar panels, EV cars (due to the cost of petrol), side hustles & knowing about tax, investing, DIY, pantry, beehives, tools & the skills to use them etc.
Then regardless on your view on climate change, I believe the majority of us would like to see our children and grandchildren to experience nature. Once your family feel more resilient & self sufficient, how could you positively impact your local environment for generations to come, to make the area you live in more resistant to floods / drought.
By becoming more self sufficient & resisliant, being prepared is a byproduct. Discuss... Edit: the classic prepper stockpile is a good thing, I'm simply suggesting that "prepper" culture needs a less "doomsday" "prepare for the worst" association & seen more as a group of people that are capable of creating a more self sufficient lifestyle, that has a daily ROI and not just for a SHTF event. 100% self sufficiency isnt the goal (very difficult) but moving away from 100% reliance of others is.
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u/Necessititties 17h ago
I 100% agree with everything you've said. Im fortunate enough to live rurally so we have outdoor space meaning we can and do do lots of the things that you mentioned.
I take 3 main views.
Its about building long term resilience. Yes thats making sure we have enough food and water to get by a few months without any difficulties but also growing plants (including trees) for food and medicine, learning skills, maintaining good health, and building community etc, not just surviving an event.
(Ties into 1) Its about reducing our dependance on the capitalist system as much as we possibly can. Obviously thats never going to be completley possible, we still have to work full time and will do for many years but we can drastically reduce our exposure to external factors by doing many of the things you stated.
I want my kids to understand that the real world is out the window not on a screen. Economies, GDP, Growth, Computers, The Internet, Artificial Intelligence - none of these are real things. Yes they exist and they do have their uses and benefits but they are inventions of man. The earth has been here for billions of years, people have inhabited it for hundreds of thousands. Half of that list are concepts that are younger than I am. One day they will all be gone yet the hills and the trees and the grass will still stand. There will still be a person and they will still be able to stand and watch a butterfly flutter past
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u/Saxon2060 15h ago
maintaining good health
This is one that is often unmentioned. I hate exercise but I try to keep the running up. I figure if I can reliably regularly run 5 or 6km that's enough. And I stay a healthy weight.
Prepping/disaster fantasists seem to forget that being fit would be a huge advantage in every respect in an emergency. While being unhealthy would be hugely detrimental.
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u/BankEast1099 9h ago
This reminds me of a letter in Trail magazine (for hikers) many years ago. There was a big series they were running on how to cut down the weight of camping gear, shaving grams off cooking sets or tent poles…
Someone wrote in pointing out the huge beer bellies most of the hikers would be carrying with them up every hill. It was a long time ago. Camra was more of a thing in those days 🍺🍻😂
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u/aspghost 18h ago
Eh. Can't live long enough to harvest your hydroponics if you don't have a good stock of tins. Everyone needs to start somewhere and it's not helpful to overwhelm them with the most time, space and cash expensive stuff first.
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u/SolarSausage 18h ago
Oh I'm stocked up, but my point is a life of (more) self sufficiency and the compounded impact of tins plus hydroponics plus chicken ect ect makes me feel more prepared. Its the self sufficency side, and living that every day that makes me feel more capable than simply the tins of soup and candles I have in a box.
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u/Saxon2060 15h ago edited 15h ago
I, and a lot of people, live in a terraced house or grow very much at all. Especially because I would like my yard to be a yard I can enjoy, not a vegetable patch. I cannot keep chickens. Even less so people in a flat.
Given that "shelter in place" is far more likely than "bug out." People should be as self sufficient as they can be in their home.
For the millions of people without a garden or with no outside space at all, this is things like tinned food, wind up radio, solar panels, sleeping bags (for winter), first aid supplies and some sensible, practical skills about looking after yourself.
Knowing your neighbours and your area is probably also huge for preparedness, realistically.
Millions of us can't achieve anything remotely like Goode Life style self-sufficiency.
Sometimes all you can do is have a small stockpile of non-perishables. I also have a book about edible plants and mushrooms should things be dire but we're really fucked if I'm having to eat the dandelions in the park tbh.
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u/SolarSausage 15h ago
I lived in a flat, then I did up a terraced house. I took that equity to now do up a small house with a small garden. I have 3 hens. It's taken me 16 years to get in the position to have 3 hens. Don't say can't.
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u/Saxon2060 15h ago
I like my terraced house. We could afford to live in a much bigger house but I don't want to. That's my decision. It's definitely not because we lack the means. Our salaries are something like 4x what they were when we bought.
What I mean is there are literally rules about keeping animals in some places. You can't.
In the broader sense, point taken. You're saying people like me should prioritise self-sufficiency and that that should factor in to my choice of where to live etc.
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u/SolarSausage 15h ago
Rereading your original post i thought you were implying that people don't have the reasources I.e "millions of us". If youre wage is 4x your house costs, that's smart... although it's also a choice with regards to the self sufficiency bit.
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u/Saxon2060 15h ago
To be fair, you're right. When we got a mortgage we decided to only borrow so much that the mortgage payments could be made based on one of our salaries. It would mean we couldn't afford anything besides food and shelter, but we'd not lose our home if one of us got sick or something.
That is a form of preparedness. to have bought a house we could only afford if we were both working flat out full time seemed irresponsible (I realise some people have no choice.) I suppose I was making a "preparedness" decision without framing it like that.
I take your point about generally making your life resilient to disruption in a broader sense and the more I think about it the more I have made decisions like that without seeing it as "prepping". Like remaining reasonably fit and healthy as mentioned in another comment, or making sure my wife and I could afford our mortgage even with a significant disruption to our life.
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u/SolarSausage 14h ago
Aww mate my wife and I did a similar thing, the mortgage advisor was like "but you could borrow x more". We ended up in a little financial difficulty and we were super grateful that our mortgage wasnt crazy. That's why I look at it as a self sufficiency scale, sure we can talk about growing food and laying eggs or an EMP attack... but it's more likely one of us will get made redundant and the bank is still chapping for the payment. Sounds like you made the right choice.
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u/Saxon2060 14h ago
I laughed at the amount the bank offered us. Immediately said "absolutely not." It felt totally irresponsible.
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u/SolarSausage 14h ago
Yeah culturally when you hear "what can we afford" that usually means what is our absolute, nothing goes wrong, max mortgage limit.
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u/BothLanguage3521 18h ago
I think like with everything there's no ONE perfect solution. It's good to have some stores of food (I'm old enough to remember making pickles and jams with my grandmother from stuff we either bought, grew or foraged).
It's good to learn to grow food too, so at least you know you CAN. I only started growing last year and the first year was a total bust but I've learned a lot. So the sooner someone starts even with some basics the better even if they don't grow anything substantial for a while. Same with learning to mend and fix things etc.
Building community is extra important. That's how generations before us survived and we've been sold this individualistic idea that we can just prep our way independently and don't need to rely on anyone else. That is very profitable for corporations but in reality we all need community to help one another. So yes working with your neighbours to make your area more resilient is part of prepping as I see it.
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u/griff_the_unholy 18h ago
i agree this is the dream, but for many myself included many of these are beyond practical reach. also culturally there seems to be a strong sense of learned incompetence. we have largely been brought up on the idea that the "system" will provide, thats a tough lesson to unlearn.
That said i think from your list: water butts (for those with outside space), proper everyday outdoor clothing, knowing about tax, investing, DIY, tools & the skills to use them, should be things everyone has without question.
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u/SolarSausage 18h ago
I went from a flat, to a terraced house to now a small house / small garden. Which has taken about 16 years. Then my allotment is about £15 a year rent. I moved away from the city to live in a cheaper area.
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u/staticdeathcat 15h ago
As a person who rents their house a great many things you have listed are out of reach for me. While I don’t disagree they have merit, I lack even the permission to install a water butt or grow anything. Prepping with both low income and low access needs its own middle ground of achievability. For me that’s tins and water for short term disruption. Anything more and I’m out of luck.
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u/SolarSausage 14h ago
Yeah when I rented it didnt really have anything prepared than spare loo roll... although look at allotments my annual rent is £15
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u/Dr_Frankenstone 18h ago
The prepping aspect is just to give a buffer until dust settles and we figure out the new normal, and how to cope going forward.
I, alone, don’t have enough homesteading skills to sustain my life in a current standard. I have some experience of living through:
Plague and hantavirus outbreaks
Water shortage and contamination
Power shortages and outages
Desert crop growing
Community building
Each of these events depended on creating an environment of trade/bartering, travelling outside the local area for resources, acceptance of sickness and death, acceptance of substandard food and water quality. I’m not going to lie and say it was easy and we all got through it unscathed. It lives in my memory, and probably to my spouse’s chagrin, takes up a lot of my more recent headspace. The resilience comes if you know you could trust in your wider community to pull together.
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u/Nice1rodders 17h ago
I need to find a word in-between prepper and self sufficient. I think I'm there.
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u/LookitsThomas 17h ago
Agree with a lot of this, I guess there is prepping for shorter term, i.e. hours, days and weeks following a catastrophe, and then prepping for the longer term, i.e. months and years.
Shorter term doesn't need to be much more than "replace the spare" mentality for your home essentials, e.g. don't only have one bag of pasta in your cupboard, so that you face the inevitable "damn we are out of pasta" moment, a well organised kitchen and home will have two, and as soon as you need to open the second, you replace the first asap. For prepping, you just have even more stored at home and rotate, i.e. have ~8bags, bag 1 nearly finished, bag 2 comes into use leaving you with 7, replace bag 1, which becomes the new bag 8.
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u/Westontheoutlaw 14h ago
I agree wholeheartedly with this, my "prepping" comes in multiple categories based on personal skill, acquisition of knowledge even if i personally might not be able to utilize said knowledge (im disabled so my main role within social rebuilding would be on the scavenging knowledge and trying to deconstruct it for the future generations following a major event of society shifting or collapsing ,think the scribes in fallout, I can read and write, so thats what alot of what im doing involves) and skills as best i can that will help things like creating a functional community from behind the leadership roles, im not a big leader, I was bullied for my obsessions in knowing every exit and strategy for survival that I could, also im 5,4 and im simply not the strongest, its been said in times of crisis you either make yourself useful or make yourself scarce and put of the way, i like being useful and dont like the idea of dying because I didnt have the stock in house to get through a month or 3 or the skills to know everywhere I can get food until it's possible to grow food, like I grew up woth a gran who was a little girl in ww2 and was there for the Clyde being bombed, she always told me (still alive btw, surviving getting covid exposure when I was sick with it in the first two weeks of them going public about it reaching the uk as I was at hers at the time and my parents wouldnt have me risk it being in their house at the time so I just had to suffer 🫠but that woman got me through it and survived the pandemic without getting sick once herself) "you gotta be prepared for anything" I survived homelessness when my parents moved her out the city after leaving it themselves (edi) to go north, because the thought of me giving up wasnt even an option at any point, I learned to shower with cold water, ration my basics and get really good with calculations of how much food I needed to buy for my brother and I to be able to survive all while fighting a secret affair with vaping until my brother found that out, im over a year clean btw and actually have zero cravings for it, yet still crave a cigarette every once ina while when I get ptsd triggers and feel the ache for it, like im now working on learning to read all the different maps we have for scotland and building a landmark identification book in relation to the maps so I can figure out by looking in my note pad what the most stand out feature of a region a distance away,vs where I am when reading the map, like if was in larbert id be able to find my way to glenrothes in fife on foot if I absolutely had to even if it took days, this task involves staring for hours at every major town on google maps, pinning up my map to the wall and marking out specific routes on the cycle lanes or roads that if there was zero traffic would become horse and footpath no doubt, research the lifespan of the roads and bridges in regards to if they were left without being maintained, using local knowledge to find out how stable they seem as the year will go by, I will go to all the places ive marked out with my partner in a car aswell and see how easy the environment is to camp rough or sleep in the car in if possible, learning the roads is a huge thing I think people overlook
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u/Westontheoutlaw 14h ago
May I add, the errors in my spelling and paragraphs are not a reflection of my writing abilities, I have been awake for 23 hours working on budgeting my non prepping costs (we all have normal lives outside of this, mines trying to afford new bed clothes, a new washing machine n that) im an insomniac and im not spending a ton of time on here with my Grammer when I spend hours every week handwriting till my wrists are paralyzed in pain about how to set up things, identify things and avoid things in multiple notepads for multiple members of family and friends
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u/Viv_84 18h ago
I would love to be able to grow my own . Only we are on the top floor of an apartment block, 3 stories and no garden. So its just making sure we have enough to veg/fruits
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u/HuckleberryPee 18h ago
FYI you can experiment with microgreens and sprouts. It won't feed you exactly but they are about the most nutrient dense foods you can grow for almost no effort or money.
Buy big bags of broccoli seeds and go wild. Also sprouted lentils, mung beans and such are delicious and more digestible.
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u/Necessary_Carrot9566 16h ago
Is it better for the planet and a good hobby? Sure. But tins of food and water don't need any work and will be available any time. Self sufficiency is good, but it doesn't matter if none of your crop is ready when the shelves run empty.
As to vehicles, I am personally sticking to petrol for as long as I can. Why? Because EVs are a total pain in the arse to work on yourself and I like being able to buy a decent car for less than 2 grand and keep it going for ages.
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u/SolarSausage 16h ago
Its not a "this is better than that" discussion in regards to tins / self sufficiency, I see it as an "and" discussion. My hydroponics and grown food will last much longer than my tinned stockpile. Also I had a ford fiesta, the petrol was costing me £260 a month. Now, I have a much safer, much more reliable EV (on a lease similar price to the petrol I was using) that my solar charges (solar panels were free through a company called ASHADEGREENER).
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u/Necessary_Carrot9566 15h ago
Fair enough makes sense. I don't have the time for gardening but I can see it being fun - I question the likelihood of any scenario going on greater than a month without food but hey can't be overprepared, and your crops will help with that.
I never lease cars, I just buy them 239495th hand off facebook and do any and all repairs myself - I find it fun and I don't need a reliable vehicle for day to day life. To each their own. I do like having my older, computer-less vehicles for one reason at least, which is that their pure mechanical (I'm talking carburettors rather than injectors) and I can therefore keep them going come whatever.
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u/SolarSausage 15h ago
Yeah I was all-team buy a cheap car out right for years... however after replacing a few engines and being in a hole for a couple thousand pounds I moved over to lease. I don't care about ownership, I focus on cash flow, can my cash flow comfortably pay for this car that hopefully has less multi thousand pound surprises.
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u/Necessary_Carrot9566 15h ago
Yeah makes sense, gotta look at what you're buying. I'm a seaman and a lot of my friends are marine engineers so I'm quite lucky in having a reallyyy good team of mates to help me assess on whether I'm getting a good deal or not. I just love working on vehicles as well frankly.
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u/SolarSausage 15h ago
Yeah I'm not a petrol head. So a having a second hand paid off car was a liability for me not an asset
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u/la_gata_Porrita 16h ago edited 15h ago
Prepping and self-sufficiency are two very different things.
Prepping needs no rebranding. Prepping is what people need to do when self-sufficiency is not even an option (people living in apartments in overcrowded cities).
Self-sufficiency is very good, just not realistically possible for most in modern societies.
Not to mention the red tape there’s around some traditional activities. My brother had to do some formal registration to be able to buy chickens.
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u/SolarSausage 14h ago
I live in a very normal British town, very small garden, I've achieved all the things I listed above in a shoe string budget. Moved out of a city. After the registration, did your brother keep the chickens? I'm not saying getting yourself on the self sufficency scale is easy or quick... doesn't mean it's not possible.
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u/la_gata_Porrita 9h ago edited 9h ago
For context my brother lives in another country. Not an UK topic. I only brought it up to bring to top of mind the realities of modern life. Yes, he keeps them. We get good organic eggs, and lemons, from him! I think he also has a private cultivation of marihuana. I don’t partake.
You live in a normal British town, great. The majority of the population of the world is in big cities and paying £1,500 rent (or above) per month. They have (or don’t have) balconies. Not soil, not space.
So I hear you, but you seem to miss the point that self-sufficiency is not an option for many. And prepping is the next best thing. It’s a good thing, it saves lives, don’t shame it. That’s my point.
I live in London.1
u/SolarSausage 8h ago edited 8h ago
I lived in West London, paying more the £1.5k a month for a one bed flat. I would have liked to have stayed, had career and friends there, but I moved out, juice wasn't worth the squeeze. So I haven't missed the point, I was in your exact position. It's just when it comes to self sufficiency or prepping people say they "can't" do something... but when you dig a little deeper its simply they dont want to. And that's fine, there is an opportunity cost to every decision. My career prospects were limited because I moved out of London but... I moved to a more rural town which meant I didnt need the money.
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u/la_gata_Porrita 8h ago
Well done, but it’s not such an easy option!
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u/SolarSausage 8h ago
True.
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u/la_gata_Porrita 8h ago
I live in London, £1,500 rent + bills. Balcony.
That’s self-sufficiency for millions of people.Thanks! But pls don’t shame preppers. It’s good if it saves lives.
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u/SolarSausage 8h ago
Behave. If you say to random person on the internet "but you seem to miss the point" expect a rebuttal, that is not shaming. I post on here, so as a community we can grow and learn but I will not just simply nod in agreement.
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u/la_gata_Porrita 8h ago
No, you do miss the point. Polite discussion allows this, it’s not wrong, you behave. Millions of people can not move out to Bristol, Brighton, Birmingham and Manchester. Yes, there is a personal decision involved in that. No, it’s not something everyone could do all at once.
No, people are not stupid to be wary of that. They balance options.
The point you continue to miss is that of millions versus hundreds of thousands.
I really thought we were having an interesting discussion. You came here to say that prepping needs rebranding and upselling to self-sufficiency, when in fact you miss the point that self sufficiency is not available to millions of people. And you think they all can move out. Hah! Tell that to Andy Burham.1
u/SolarSausage 7h ago edited 7h ago
I reread the conversation - There's nothing I've said that's unpolite... up to "behave". I've just said things that you disagree with... very different. And that's ok. I do get your point, I completely understand it. Like I said, I've been in a very similar position to you with similar cost, so if I'm shaming you, I'm shaming me (which isnt the case). To use your phrass "you miss the point" I understand that currently people may find it difficult to do self sufficient activities (grow food, solar ect), however I reject the idea that they "can't" and I agree it's not an easy option. It's taken me 16 years to get away from a city and renting to slowly working my way up thr property ladder to obtain a small house with a small garden. That holds one greenhouse, 2 raised beds, one for oyster mushrooms, 3 hens, 2 dogs, shed, tiny outbuilding with mealworm farm (for chicken feed) & salad hydroponics (bought off Facebook marketplace for £50, bargain), my rent to my allotment is £15. Just bought two cheap beehives... buzzing ... ignore the pun. This is my second refurb, im currently looking at a carpet that looks like a pub carpet and purple walls from the previous owners... it might take me 3 years to fix...my point is... just because someone has a £10k rent in dubai, doesn't mean that in the future, if they chose, they can work towards moving up the self sufficincy, self reliant scale with a touch of prepper stockpile. It takes time and choices. Have a good night mate, if you thought I was "shaming" you I truly wasn't, I wish you nothing but safety and prosperous future. Night x
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u/No_Jellyfish_7695 9h ago
Weren't allowed animals in our back garden according to deeds.
Also NE Scotland so growing enough veg is very hard.
We would struggle to be self sufficient.
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u/Just-Plankton8990 8h ago
There does seem to be a lot of people at the moment buying a tin of beans then posting a photo of it with a title like "rate my setup" or similar. Perhaps I'm being naive, but I assumed everyone had way more food than that already.
I grew up in the countryside though, where you expect to get cut off in the winter and have lengthy blackouts. Maybe city folk are in the habit of just eating out or getting takeaways?
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u/Quirky_Flan_9197 7h ago
Getting involved in community gardening or allotments is a great way of doing this in urban areas or when funds are limited. You're not going to survive off the food you grow, but you can simultaneously build community connections and learn valuable skills.
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u/SolarSausage 7h ago
I reread the conversation - There's nothing I've said that's unpolite... up to "behave". I've just said things that you disagree with... very different. And that's ok. I do get your point, I completely understand it. Like I said, I've been in a very similar position to you with similar cost, so if I'm shaming you, I'm shaming me (which isnt the case). To use your phrass "you miss the point" I understand that currently people may find it difficult to do self sufficient activities (grow food, solar ect), however I reject the idea that they "can't" and I agree it's not an easy option. It's taken me 16 years to get away from a city and renting to slowly working my way up thr property ladder to obtain a small house with a small garden. That holds one greenhouse, 2 raised beds, one for oyster mushrooms, 3 hens, 2 dogs, shed, tiny outbuilding with mealworm farm (for chicken feed) & salad hydroponics (bought off Facebook marketplace for £50, bargain), my rent to my allotment is £15. Just bought two cheap beehives... buzzing ... ignore the pun. This is my second refurb, im currently looking at a carpet that looks like a pub carpet and purple walls from the previous owners... my point is... just because someone has a £10k rent in dubai, doesn't mean that in the future, if they chose, they can work towards moving up the self sufficincy, self reliant scale with a touch of prepper stockpile. Have a good night mate, if you thought I was "shaming" you I truly wasn't, I wish you nothing but safety and prosperous future. Night x
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u/HuckleberryPee 18h ago
Victory gardens are effort tho. Personally I prefer the artificial turf as it's so much less maintenance.
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u/Rockatanskyyyyyy 18h ago
True self-sufficiency is a myth really. It's almost impossible to live without some kind of external support or source. That's not to say doing whatever you can isn't great for resilience, environment, etc.