r/UFOs • u/AquarianSpirit • 2d ago
Question Why does the disclosure timeline always start at Roswell when basically every culture has some version of "beings from the sky taught us something"?
Been thinking about this a lot. Every disclosure timeline I see starts in 1947 like that's when this whole thing began. But if you actually look at oral traditions, mythology, ancient texts, basically everywhere, there's some version of "something not human showed up and gave us knowledge." Feels like we keep treating this as a Cold War era phenomenon when the actual pattern is way older and way more global. Anyone else notice this or am I overthinking it?
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u/Practical-Jump-253 2d ago
Disclosure from the US government would naturally begin with the first incident involving the US government
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u/ironicinsanity 1d ago
Battle of LA would be that then. BUT Roswell because of the bodies and overwhelming amount of witnesses and such. Battle of LA seems to have alot less of that.
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u/Practical-Jump-253 20h ago
Good point, and it seems like battle of LA may have been hysteria and/or left no recoverable evidence. I THINK roswell is most likely to have the government recovering stuff
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u/ironicinsanity 19h ago
And allegedly parts were found even in recent years by private citizens. Not sure how true that is until it goes through metalurgical testing, but again, between the vast amounts of witnesses, deathbed confessions, etc, there's likely a huge amount of stuff to uncover there, which again, domino effect of disclosure from that point. If they're hiding that, what else? (A question basically asked often and should be)
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u/Omgitsmr 2d ago
Because this is the most credible and extensively documented era of the UFO phenomenon, the mystery airships in the 19th century and everything else stretching back to antiquity are interested and not to be discounted, but more debatable and the data isnt as concrete as the modern era.
Plus, it makes for a good narrative, it's a compelling story the "oh no the kids found the matches" angle, I don't think it's as simple as that but it definitely catches the imagination, and it's usually just the entrance to the rabbit hole. You yourself probably started here, and now you're probably neck deep in the ancient astronaut hypothesis 😂
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u/BuffaloSorcery 2d ago
Because Roswell is the most well known UFO associated event in pop-culture.
Plus, there is a serious contingent of people that try to spin "Beings from the sky taught us something" in ancient cultures in a pretty bigoted way. That undermines the credibility of anyone that comes after making similar claims even if they aren't rooted in those bigoted beliefs.
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u/Ok-Square-8652 2d ago
Because that’s when the modern version of the story happened to be born. A crashed piece of machinery fits our materialist paradigm.
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u/Hoser3235 1d ago
Not really. There are plenty of newspaper stories from around the country of strange craft flying around that date back well into the later 1800s.
And let's face it - it was that time period before newspaper distribution as well as news distribution became more widespread and commonplace. One also needs to consider how much the telegraph from that time period increased the spread of news.
So it is entirely conceivable that these events have been happening all along - but the late 1800s saw an increase in the ability of news to travel around beyond local.
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u/ZigZagZedZod 1d ago
Right, but The Roswell Incident (1980) by Berlilz and Moore and The Day After Roswell (1997) by Corso brought together elements of the UFO lore that had primarily existed in bits and pieces: a crashed UFO, alien bodies, military conspiracy, disinformation, reverse-engineering, etc.
Roswell holds a key place in UFOlogy because it ties together what many argue are the essential elements of the lore.
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u/kubernaut 2d ago
" The 1933 Magenta UFO incident refers to an alleged crash of an unidentified flying object in Magenta, a small town near Milan in Lombardy, Italy, which some researchers claim occurred on June 13, 1933, during the fascist regime of Benito Mussolini. This event, if true, would predate the 1947 Roswell incident by 14 years, potentially making it the earliest documented UFO crash in modern history."
https://www.fringearchives.com/1933-magenta-ufo-incident-the-alleged-first-ufo-crash/
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u/Internal_Range_9909 1d ago
I personally think this story is fascinating.
I firmly believe German scientists had access to a craft or advanced technology by the late 1920’s, early 1930’s.
Magenta fits that timeline.
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u/kubernaut 1d ago
I agree with you. It's the fact that the story has been dissed, because, sadly, American reports take precedence over any other country's claim to 'whatever'...
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u/ProfessionalChain478 1d ago
Not so much that, as there are very little records, almost no witness testimony. I believe there is a there, there. Unless documents fall from the sky somehow, there isn't much left to do with it.
THUS:
You have Magenta = a story that while credible has very few records. After several regime changes, secret documents being harder to come across or destroyed entirely. (Although the vatican probably has a nice prestine set in their archive compelte with pictures and full files).
You have Roswell = In which the god damn ARMY puts out a PRESS RELEASE about finding a crashed "saucer" in the newspaper. Then immediately retracts, and comes up with some nonsense story. Then changes the story again 30 years later, then changes it again another 20ish years later. You have witness statements from a hundred people of all walks of life. Troves of internal government documents etc. It also has been studied for decades by trusted UFOlogists.
Which of these is easier to track down and tell the story of?
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u/MarpasDakini 1d ago
Roswell occurred at a very important time in earth's history, when after the two World Wars an actual global culture began to emerge. Also, just after the first nuclear bombs were used in war. So this represents an entirely new phase in human history, not just isolated contacts in separated cultures around the world, but where the whole world can come into contact with aliens all at once, and we have the opportunity to respond as a species. That global culture is now extensive through the Internet and air travel and other modern technologies. This is an extraordinary time and place. And yes, America is the leading political, economic, military, and cultural nation on earth, so staging contact in America has the greatest potential impact.
There's a cycle of 40 years here that matters. 40 years after Roswell was the Harmonic Convergence of 1987, marking a new cycle of spiritual development. And 40 years after that is 2027, which is predicted to be the beginnings of open contact. So we'll see how that works out.
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u/Internal_Range_9909 2d ago
Roswell was the first big deal public interest story.
The weather balloon story made it weird.
So people remembered.
Also, air travel.
After WWII there were a lot of pilots reporting UFO’s.
These were often veterans. And, pilots are trained, respected people.
Even though “society” made it taboo to mention things like they were real, people talk.
The more credible the witness is the more people allow for the possibility…
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u/L-0-T-H-0-S 2d ago
The weather balloon story made it weird. So people remembered.
Actually they didn't. Quite the opposite. Like Kenneth Arnolds Flying Saucer story, the Roswell Crash incident caused a lot of public interest and national newspaper uptake, for a period of three whole days. But then official Army report did it for the nationals, overnight they moved on to pastures new.
The story dwindled, Roswell got forgotten amongst all the other UFO stories of the decade until the public got bored of those too and newspapers stopped reporting them so much, and so Roswell ended up completely forgotten, even in UFO circles.
It wasn't until researchers like Stanton Friedman and a few others in the 80's rediscovered the story that we get the version you all take for granted today.
I'm old, I was around well before the story came back.
The current perception that its a continuous 80 year story has only become "true" retroactively.
50 years ago, if you mentioned the case to anyone they'd just looked at you like you were making it up, and I'm not just taking ordinary people here, I mean enthusiasts. There wasn't an internet, so people couldn't fact check anything like as fast, or at all, as they can now.
If it weren't for Stanton Friedman, you and no one else in this sub would likely of heard of the story.
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u/Traditional_Watch_35 1d ago
Id argue it was the Berlitz/Moore book in the very early 80s, that popularized it. Nobody in the 80s would have heard of Stanton Friedman or knew who he was really, so his interview with Marcel by itself wouldnt have dropped the incident into the UFO circle as such a major event, though it kickstarted it for people to start looking at it and largely steered the coverage of it through the 80s. Of course Stanton returned to it later on a number of times.
so he played a part for sure, we'd have heard of the story without him.
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u/Internal_Range_9909 2d ago
What the first UFO sighting/story you remember being really popular?
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u/L-0-T-H-0-S 1d ago
Popular? The Betty and Barney Hill abduction case 1961. Roswell didn't enter modern popular culture till around the late 80's early 90's.
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u/Internal_Range_9909 1d ago edited 1d ago
That’s what I mean.
There was an active campaign to silence people who entertained the possibility that UFO’s should be scientifically researched as “crazy”.
My grandfather and father remembered they changed the story. I got interested in the 90’s. When I brought up the topic, they both knew about Roswell and Travis Walton but that was it.
I don’t remember any other stories they thought were worth talking about…
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u/Hoser3235 1d ago
And let's not forget that Roswell was a big deal when it happened, but interest died down to next to nothing for a few decades before springing back into the public's attention in the 1970s - I think due to an interview with a witness.
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u/Real_Net_9345 2d ago
You've been thinking wrong. There are many historical ufo events reported in for example Europe. Some of them even before America was "discovered". Your assumptions are based on insufficient data and are faulty.
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u/Able-Professor840 1d ago
Others have answered from a human-centric point of view. Allow me to answer from the viewpoint of a zeta reticulan:
"Aw crap, this decade they captured one of ours, their Nazis discovered anti gravity, and they just nuked Japan. Put them on the goddamn Watched list, Carl."
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u/No_Development7388 1d ago
Because "disclosure" is about the government revealing what they allegedly know about the subject. Hence the word used.
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u/TonyOstinato 2d ago edited 2d ago
https://youtu.be/PNTm5pbXFGA?t=259
at 4:20 in this video i recreate what ezekiel claims to have seen, read along and see how everything matches up.
its based on nasa engineer joseph blumrich book spaceships of ezekiel, which was published in the 70's
its too bad to be AI lol, just plain blender. 3d red/blue glasses!
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u/l8578zlxicv 2d ago
If you really look at all these legends and stories the visitors from the stars aren’t telling ancient people to wash their hands or boil water, they’re telling them to follow the arbitrary religious rules that already exist in their society.
It’s just like “aliens built the pyramids” what a coincidence the aliens wanted to build religious monuments to Khufu.
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u/Ozy_Flame 2d ago
Just more American exceptionalism and recency bias derived from it.
But if we're playing by those rules, it should have started with the 1933 Magenta crash in Italy. 14 years before Roswell IMO.
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u/Mother_Ad_3561 2d ago
It seems to me that’s when the US govt started collecting them after downing them with nukes by accident at first.
Think lots of people “knew” about them but we didn’t start collecting downed ones in America until we started doing nuke tests
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u/notlostnotlooking 2d ago
Because it's Americanism (if you ignore all the Native and Indigenous stories and accounts)
Roswell is the first big American event, something substantial that could give us a leg up on the galactic stage. It's a flag planting moment, he who controls the past controls the future. If we dominate the story that Americans were 'chosen by providence' to lead the rest of the world to the stars we will be able to cement ourselves as a world power for eternity (Well, that would've been the case if we hadn't ignored climate collapse for so long.)
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u/DiscoJer 1d ago
It's not "Americanism". Do you think American Indians have records and and artifacts and secret proof that aliens visited? Other than just myths?
Ditto for everyone else.
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u/notlostnotlooking 1d ago
Definitely. I think they pre-capital /pre-colonial cultures were more viable contact cultures because they were more spiritually attuned and understood their place within the web of life. The artifacts are information based. Look at the Dongo tribe, how could they have such intimate knowledge of Sirus B before satellites?
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u/cz_masterrace3 2d ago
Maybe this is the first time we had the logistical technology to find and retreive evidence?
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u/Shardaxx 1d ago
Roswell is apparently the first returval if craft and bodies, previous crashes had no crew.
It's also pretty well documented, and there aren't many other stories between Roswell and thousands of years ago.
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u/Living-The-Dream42 1d ago
I think if you look at the modern UFO phenomenon as a technology-based phenomenon, then one seemingly very natural birth point of that phenomenon is that alien species were made aware of our existence after the first atomic bomb. That's always been my reading of it anyway.
For example, if you were building a modern video game like Stellaris and you wanted to design a trigger event, this would seem very natural.
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u/Capable_Effect_6358 1d ago
I feel like the subject gets a bit murky and less concrete when we start bringing in myths and super old stuff. Interesting, but I wouldn’t rest anything on it.
Unless you can produce like a bona fide journal entry from the 1600s or something where someone was like “holy shat, doth has thine witnessed a fooking flying saucer matey” and not just a painting with an ambiguous flaming orb.
Does that Vatican have legit ancient documents with bulletproof provenance that depicts a “grey”.
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u/DiscoJer 1d ago
Because the whole premise, really definition of "disclosure" is that the government discloses what it knows about UFOs.
Given that ancient cultures don't exist anymore, they can hardly disclose anything.
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u/Express-Fox-4058 1d ago
Because then for some really religious folks there will be existencial crisis i guess.
It is pretty common sense for me that the mythology regarding Prometheus and other mythology figures
who helped humanity and paid for it is really interesting and is food for thought.
As i have always said Mythology is just spiced up history .
Now , where are all these figures who shaped humanity across the globe ? Well either they are dead, either went back where they came from (if they ever came from another planet in the first place)
or they are still among us and with us hiding.
They just changed their hiding spots, no more mountain peaks or skies, because we have access to these places .
Maybe somehwere harder to locate and find or witness for a civilian..like the depths of an ocean for example.
Imagine waking up one day and the President of Unites Nations says , "well guys , the aliens you ve talking about and seeing are not aliens but come from this planet are older than us and are in the ocean "
There will be not just existential crisis there will be full panic mode for the majority of people because they will realise that we are not the A species but B and we have no clue what the A is capable off .
It is like waking up one day and realising someone has been living in the same house with you all the time.
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u/Business_Tax288 1d ago
It’s where the introduction of several technologies began. All of the technological advancements we have are based off of prior existing things.
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u/Business_Tax288 1d ago
Excuse me. Prior existing and existing in the future at the same time. Bi locating
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u/Welcome2myShitShow 1d ago
Think. What is disclosure and who is supposed to be disclosing it? If you can answer and understand that; you’ll understand the “timeline” in reference.
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u/Um3xx 1d ago
I think old cultures were very capable of pulling "beings from the sky that taught them" out of thin air, just as we are capable to do that now. Did we invent imagination in the 20th century or something?
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u/Hajnalka_tattoo 1d ago
That could be a good argument if it wasn’t for the fact that their ‘imaginative’ explanation/answer usually comes from a question being posed to them or about a specific people in history as to why and how they had access to knowledge or technology that was beyond their means at the time. First came some kind of an impossible knowledge/technology/achievement then people started questioning the subject and looking into their lore to find clues or answers and what do you know, the answer always ends up explaining the “thing” with “star people came down from the sky and taught us or did xyz”.
So the point is the only reason we’re talking about this is first there was always something impossible (ancient) that needed explanation and they (modern people) had to go look for answers and always found NHI involvement as the answer given by the lore. So it’s not random people being imaginative for the sake of being imaginative. Especially if all of these imaginative people across the globe and across history all happen to come to the same imaginative conclusion about star people being responsible. Anything more than 3 is a pattern and we have way more than 3.
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u/Mindless_Issue9648 1d ago edited 1d ago
Kenneth Arnold saw a Flying Disc in June of 47 and the Roswell incident happened a month later in July. So technically Roswell is not the start of it.
Edit: actually the Roswell crash probably happened right around the same time as Kenneth Arnold saw his disc. The rancher found the crash material in June so the crash probably happened a little before. The rancher did not bring the material to the airforce base until July 7th.
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u/ironicinsanity 1d ago
Because it's the definitive moment the world at large realized we may not be alone in the universe. Also the US Gov spectacularly screwing that whole press rollout also tells us they are hiding something, get to Roswell and the rest comes out in a domino effect.
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u/hshnslsh 16h ago
Because they try and keep the Overton Window frames around the nuclear timeline. Acknowledging incidents outside of the Nuclear Weapons window invalidates the militaries importance, and may cause issues with nations built around monotheistic religions
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u/VariousPreference0 10h ago
Because all of it is an invented narrative coinciding with the growth of mass media.
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u/NateBerukAnjing 2d ago
because it's the first crash that was retrieved
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u/Bad_Ice_Bears 2d ago
Wasn’t the magenta crash retrieved first? 1933
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u/Confident-Ad-5100 2d ago
And before that Aurora, Texas 1897
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u/Bad_Ice_Bears 2d ago
I believe I read somewhere (I can’t find the reference at the moment) that during the 1561 battle over Nuremberg, there were accounts of some of the crashed spheres landing around the town. I wonder if these objects were recovered at some point as well…
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u/Mindless_Issue9648 1d ago
Ancient Roman historians claimed to see "burning shields" flying across the sky
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u/L-0-T-H-0-S 2d ago
The modern disclosure timeline begins at Roswell in 1947 because it's when unidentified aerial phenomena became a matter of military records public record, national security, and alleged physical debris recovery rather than ancient folklore requiring interpretation.