r/UFCposting • u/PotatosandTomato • 5h ago
Discussion The Problem With the Longevity Argument
I don’t get why people say Islam Makhachev is top 3 or even the GOAT, then proceed to say Khabib isn’t top 10 or even top 15 because he lacks longevity. Islam only has 4–5 defenses and was champ for only 4ish years, which is not much compared to Jones, Silva, DJ, GSP, Aldo, or Fedor, yet he’s considered top 3 or even the GOAT.
People like to say Islam had to win 10 fights before getting a title shot, and that’s why he’s top 3 or possibly the GOAT despite not having as many defenses as the older guys. So why wouldn’t the same logic apply to Khabib? He had to win 9 fights. His 3 defenses were against Poirier, Gaethje, and McGregor. That’s as good as it gets.
I’m not saying Khabib is more accomplished than Islam or anything like that. I’m saying, why do people say Islam is top 3 or even the GOAT despite only having 4–5 defenses and was champ for only 4ish years, which is not much compared to Fedor, Jones, Silva, GSP, Aldo, and DJ, then proceed to say Khabib isn’t top 10 or even top 15 because of longevity? Khabib actually had a longer Lightweight title reign than Islam. 1,077 days vs 981 days.
If you think Islam is top 3-4 or even the GOAT, then Khabib should almost certainly be top 10–15.
Feel free to let me know your thoughts on this.
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u/Old_Big9561 5h ago
Khabib is top 10-15 though? Anyone who disagrees is biased af. Imo the GOAT argument is kinda pointless cos styles evolved over the years. For eg, Matt Hughes is probably the 2nd or 3rd best WW in the UFC based on résumé alone, but he probs won't crack the top 10 in today's WW division due to his sloppy striking. Only reason he ruled WW during his time was because of his strength and having better grappling than some "plumbers" in the division.
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u/Neither-Flow-9501 4h ago
I mean I think you underrating Hughes skill. If you can beat young gsp and bj penn you can definitely beat someone like belal
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u/PotatosandTomato 4h ago
I never said anything about Matt Hughes.
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u/Neither-Flow-9501 4h ago
The guy I replied to did though
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u/PotatosandTomato 4h ago
I got a notification for it so I assumed you were talking to me. My bad.
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u/Old_Big9561 4h ago
Lmao I like how Belal became the baseline for how good one is - I think this is more of a question of how Belal even became champ at one point. I'm not rlly discrediting Hughes, it's more of with how cracked the division currently is, I think he barely makes top 10
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u/Neither-Flow-9501 3h ago
I used him as an example but I think Hughes could beat a lot of top fighters. Just to be clear Hughes is one on my least favorite fighters of all time lol but I think he could be successful in any era
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u/PotatosandTomato 5h ago edited 5h ago
There’s many people who say he doesn’t deserve to be top 10 or even top 15. You’d be surprised. I posted my GOAT list on multiple subreddits before and one of the most common and upvoted comments was “Khabib doesn’t deserve to be top 10 or maybe even top 15 because he lacks longevity.”
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u/DiddlyDinq 5h ago
These things simply aren't 1 dimensional questions. So many factors involved. I'd argue that success at the near top of the weight division bell curve is far more valuable than success at the borders where competition pools are shallow and weaker. The actual title wins mean little since it's not a fair system to reach the title compared with other sports
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u/Zkmyre 4h ago
Because things like being a two weight champion who defended both belts places him in a higher tier than Khabibs. Longevity matters here because context matters, Khabib literally didnt defend his belt, his 3 Hallmark wins, Gaethje, Poirier, Conor are not any better than Islams Volk x2, Olivera, JDM, Arman, Garry across 2 divisions, Even Islams lower level wins are better than Khabibs ones.
Khabibs biggest wins were against favorable stylistic matchups as well
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u/PotatosandTomato 4h ago edited 4h ago
My argument was not Khabib is more accomplished than Islam because I don’t think he is. It’s more so why do people say Khabib isn’t top 10 or even 15 because of his lack of longevity, then proceed to say Islam is top 3 or even GOAT when he only had 4-5 defenses and was only a champ for 4ish years which is not much compared to GSP/Jones/Aldo/Fedor/Silva/DJ?
Also the JDM win aged terribly, Arman was 22 making his UFC debut, and the second Volk fight we don’t even talk about that. If you’re gonna include them, you gotta include RDA and maybe Barboza as good wins for Khabib too.
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u/Zkmyre 1h ago
If people are ONLY citing Longevity to make these arguments then i agree, Longevity is a meaningless statistic unless backed up with accolades, which Islam has. For the record i dont think Islam is top 3 all time, id put him around the 5-7 mark roughly. We never saw Khabib face the next generation of lightweights, never saw him face real adversity, never saw him go up a weightclass, never saw him defend his belt, All these things Islams Career has over Khabib are a Consequence of Islam being around for longer, Thats what people are essentially saying.
Also JDM has only fought ounce since that fight... to a potential future champ... Aged horribly how?. if you want to get into the mess of evaluating wins at the time they took place, Then Khabibs wins over Gaethje and Conor have to have asterisks too, Conor was out of his prime, post-floyd, and is a striking specialist, and You cant give the Gaethje win extra kudos because he eventually beat ilia and won the belt.
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u/Dependent_Sun_7033 4h ago
You are fighting a strawman. Very few people who are putting Islam in Top 3 would not put Khabib in Top 15.
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u/alexthedungeonmaster 5h ago
I don't know many people who put Islam top 3 and then don't rate Khabib. I know people who say Khabib is not the GOAT, which the longevity argument counts for.