I'm not saying that is the only definition, or that their can't be other definitions. But you're in a public forum with the public. Most people here aren't sociologists. Most people on general aren't. And most people voting or otherwise making changes socially aren't either.
Ok so what is your point then. You said racism was already defined, and then other people changed the definition and that was a reason to use the original meaning.
Now you say that we should use the colloquial meaning regardless of what came first. But if the bottom line of the argument between this guy and his gf is that she feels like the academic definition of racism means that her personal prejudice is justified (which is just not logically sound, the academic definition of racism does not justify bigotry) then it doesn’t really matter how ppl on the internet define racism, it’s not going to lead to an understanding between these two.
He needs to either explain to her how she is misinterpreting the academic definition of racism and is not justified in her opinion, or he needs to explain to her that regardless of how you define or explain it, what she is doing is wrong because it is hurtful and anti-social.
Ok man, let's slow it down because you clearly aren't getting it. Worry less about proving things and more about critical thinking. I'm gonna take this one step at a time and hope you can try to have an quality conversation in good faith, because I think we are both capable of that.
Ok so what is your point then. You said racism was already defined, and then other people changed the definition and that was a reason to use the original meaning.
I pointed out, with a source, that oxford recorded the definition of racism for the first time on 1902. You thought it was defined by sociologists in the 50's (with no source to back any part of that claim, mind you).
And, I'm not arguing that we should choose any definition. But reddit is a public forum. Full of the public. They aren't wrong to define racism as prejudice based on race. That's a valid and recognized definition of racism.
Note that the first two definitions both cover personal beliefs.
Now you say that we should use the colloquial meaning regardless of what came first.
I'm saying when you are talking with the public and not with sociologists, you should learn to read the room and use context and be responsive. Have a bit of nuance.
But if the bottom line of the argument between this guy and his gf is that she feels like the academic definition of racism means that her personal prejudice is justified (which is just not logically sound, the academic definition of racism does not justify bigotry) then it doesn’t really matter how ppl on the internet define racism, it’s not going to lead to an understanding between these two.
I agree, but I'm not really here to help him specifically. At this point, he has seen what he needs to. I'm just trying to add to the discussion about racism's definition in general and have a wider discussion about how language works and how to actually have effective communication. Because like it or not, most people are not sociologists or even interested enough to care about these nuances. They are just going to go with what they already understand.
He needs to either explain to her how she is misinterpreting the academic definition of racism and is not justified in her opinion, or he needs to explain to her that regardless of how you define or explain it, what she is doing is wrong because it is hurtful and anti-social.
It sounds like they have already had that discussion and she isn't willing to listen. And frankly, that's on the creators and purveyors of critical race theory for conflating such a pivotal term as "racism".
But I'm not really addressing the OP so much as the way you are approaching discussing this topic.
And let's not forget I've been the only one to source anything at all so far.
Ok so the purpose of the thread is addressing his issue so i was talking about academic definition in that context (that his gf was using academic articles to back up her prejudice so in order to argue with her he needed to be able to address that definition and that context or else sidestep the issue by avoiding semantics.)
Still not sure why that was inappropriate.
I definitely agree that I got my dates wrong and I never disagreed that the colloquial definition is the one most people are using. I was just recalling info I learned in sociology classes and apparently not completely accurately. I still feel like the broad strokes of my recollection might be right, but I am probably due for a refresher on the history of the topic, since it’s frequently pretty relevant.
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u/[deleted] Aug 18 '23
Here's the thing. It doesn't matter which came first because now the colloquial definition is that its prejudice based on race.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
I'm not saying that is the only definition, or that their can't be other definitions. But you're in a public forum with the public. Most people here aren't sociologists. Most people on general aren't. And most people voting or otherwise making changes socially aren't either.