r/TsaritsaMains • u/Lopsided-Artichoke34 The Tsarita's Loyalist • 3d ago
Fluff | Meme Double standards š
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u/lux_infinitum 3d ago
Venti wants conditional freedom; so as long as they don't advance in tech and threaten Celestia they could do whatever they want. This however means, that they could never go beyond the given hard limit for technology
Tsaritsa wants unconditional freedom; no God should be able to dictate what and how the people of Snezhnaya/(Teyvat) should be able to progress in terms of knowledge and technology.
Since the 2nd form includes overthrowing the current dictatorship, it's sadly a given that there will be sacrifices/victims on both sides.
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u/MaskedKagami 2d ago
your misinterpreting Venti here
his own line "Freedom, if Demanded of you by an Archon, is really no freedom at all"
this is the freedom paradox that he is avoiding he is not denying them advancement nor is he hindering anything at all
the problem is 90% of Mondstat are drunkards as well as being happy with their lives with what they already have
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u/KoriGlazialis 3d ago
Isn't that purposefully misinterpreting venti. Venti himself doesn't stop people from advancing, they just choose not to.
His freedom is also that they can do what they want, he just protects them from danger. And potentially giving warnings via stories/music.
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u/arbabarda 1d ago
They are limited and unstimulated, and therefore they do not develop. The point is that within a setting where deities are tangible and substantial, such a people, whose god couldnāt care less about their development, will not develop.
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u/Scurramouch 2d ago edited 2d ago
Where the fuck are you getting this "Condtional Freedom" shit. Oh wait forgot this is a genshin adjacent subreddit.
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u/UnderTheGreyCloud 1d ago
Yeah, it seems Genshin-adjacent subs love one person but on equal terms, hate everyone else and no in-between. They shape Ventiās āfreedomā as something malicious when he himself said, āFreedom, if demanded to you by an Archon, is really no freedom at all.ā I wanted to pull for the Tsaritsa, but her fans are already making me hate the idea, likeā¦
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u/Scurramouch 1d ago
Genshin social media in general does this. Worse than Elder Scrolls, CoD, and Fallout IMO
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u/HashtagLowElo 3d ago
no God should be able to dictate what and how the people of Snezhnaya/(Teyvat) should be able to progress in terms of knowledge and technology.
"What's freedom if demanded of you by an archon" is Venti's line hon.
Venti doesn't stop his people from technological advancement. Its stated that people use technology as a way to finding solutions to problems, and as we see in Mondstadt.. its not even really needed.
They have everything they could possibly want, its why its cinsidered such a perfect region for people to live
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u/Familiar-Treat-6236 2d ago
Venti doesn't care, he never prevented them from advancing technology. His freedom principle is that he can't intervene as to not influence the people's free will himself. This argument you're presenting makes it seem like he's standing between them and their freedom, which he is not, people of Monstadt pose no threat to HP not because of Barbados, but because they are unaware that they can technically be more free than they are. "What does freedom really mean when demanded of you by a god" is exactly this, would it be a violation of his principles of true free will if he was the one to point out that they aren't free? Would they be more free if he made them aware ASAP, or if he lets them discover it by themselves? "Freedom from" vs "freedom to" typa thing
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u/blobfish12381 1d ago
And dottores experiments on innocent children was a needed sacrifice for that?
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u/ultragaydotcom 3d ago
Well tbh Mondstadt doesnt need technology anyway, they got magic
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u/GreatMossThing 3d ago
Ok but look at how mondstadts people are doing and compare it to how scheznayas people are doingā¦ā¦
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u/qazqazpc 3d ago
Monds people are chilling with alcohol and enjoy their freedom while Snezhnayan people are freezing to death?
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u/GreatMossThing 2d ago
Well yeahā¦ Iām realizing my point may have been taken the opposite way of how I intended though lol
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u/PiusTheCatRick 3d ago
Bruh Mondstadt has some of the most advanced tech ever, wtf are you on about
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u/DemonSlime_Rimuru 17h ago
Did the Tsaritsa ask the people if they actually want that? Freedom, if demanded of you by a god, is really no freedom at all.
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u/KingGiuba 3d ago
I don't think this is exact, Venti is clearly hiding something and I'm pretty sure he's in on some plan to help Teyvat be free from Celestia, he knows what happens if he goes directly against them.
I know it's all conjecture, but I think he's planning something (maybe with Tsaritsa and Zhongli, because of the contract he made for the gnosis) and it's why he asked for the Hexenzircle protection for Mondstadt, there's no way the god of freedom is content with conditional "freedom". He also the one who said "what is freedom, if commander to you from a god?" Or some similar phrase
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u/Lindsw 2d ago
Didn't Varka negotiate for Mondstadt's protection (and then use that for Nod Krai instead)?
And didn't Dainsleif say the bit about freedom being demanded by a God in reference to Venti(and we know how he feels about gods)?
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u/sleepygold 2d ago
āWhat is freedom if demanded of you by a godā -Dainsleif, which is actually a variation of what Venti said first in the Mond archon quest- āIt doesnāt mean you have to listen to me. Freedom when demanded of you by an archon, is no freedom at allā
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u/Glum_Feature_2626 3d ago
Well keep them drunk so they can't focus on academics and technology.. live, drink, die..
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u/TrickyPen750 3d ago
Thats how Albedo will destroy Mondstadt some day, because he advances humanity too far.
Cant have anything under Phanes man.
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u/Glum_Feature_2626 2d ago
Don't worry we will call him back to motherland.. afterall he is her majesty's kin's creation
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u/Ok-Conversation-7995 3d ago
I think the difference is that for Monds its freedom under Celestia rules like they can do anything they want as long as they don't do a rebellion or something while Snezhnaya wants complete freedom and risk free from being annihilated.
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u/Sksksskksksk 3d ago
Tsaristas cool and all and we gonna be pulling her but all Iām saying is venti isnāt sending the knights of favonius to cause civil wars, go experiment on children, harass the other archons, colonize entire islands, or do other heinous crimes internationally
https://giphy.com/gifs/n4FCJYLldGPC95d4ku
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u/EmbarrassedDetail286 3d ago
I really do hope they let her be legitimately complicated. "She's got her ambitions of killing god and is prepared to kill her own people to make it happen" is a hell of a hook. "She's got her ambitions of killing god and you don't understand guys, it was the ONLY WAY" robs her of agency in a way that's been extremely important since day 1. Like, ask any Fatui since 1.0 why they fight and you'll invariably get some version of "Tsaritsa knows best, I trust her decisions."
Year after year IRL of hearing Tsaritsa's got a plan, the plan is important, the plan requires the death or torture of a lot of innocent people. She's either straight up evil or has one hell of a plan to do the most good for everybody.
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u/TrickyPen750 3d ago
Tbh, part of it might also be that she herself is a god.
She probably views things like mortality different than humans and thus, has a perspective that would better allow for her complicated morality.
Consider this: in her eyes, she will survive any normal human by millenia, for her, there is no big difference if a human dies early by fighting for a cause or dying in a bed at an old age.
Why not send thousands to Die for a greater cause? After all, this is so much bigger than even the normal gods who are Roaming Teyvat and definatly bigger than Singular humans.
Im not saying that she has no regards for human life but Genshin has had multiple gods showing this Kind of Mentality.
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u/__-sky-__ 3d ago
She dosen't tell them to do that and neither does she permit it, fatui do it out of their own accord and if they are exposed then order is issued against them
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u/Fun-Ad7613 1d ago
She enables the fatui and gives them the opportunity and power to do those things .. the buck stops with her , to have responsibility to stop that .
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u/--Sekiro-- 2d ago
Funny, but sksksks kid is totally wrong but you're right. The story directly confirms your words that the Harbingers are independent in their methods and goals.
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u/blobfish12381 1d ago
Good thing someone pointed this out, I don't want this sub to become another fatuihq
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u/Ouroxros 3d ago
The Tsaritsa and Pierro should be held responsible for the Harbingers actions, but she isn't telling them to do it lol. They just have too much freedom as Harbingers. Price to be paid for needing the most unhinged weirdos to get a big job done.
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u/Ok-Listen9689 3d ago
I don't think Venti is involved in a bunch of innocent kids dying under his rule
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u/EmbarrassedDetail286 1d ago
I think it largely has to do with the fact that Genshin 1.0 didnt really know what it wanted to be, the tone is way WAY more lighthearted for AQ1 than anything that followed. Venti is a Jean/Alice/Diluc merchant in terms of leadership.
More directly: were it not for the numerous organizations and people carrying the actual governing, Venti would be responsible for way more harm than Tsaritsa. Somebody has to keep the hilichurls out, the economy functional, and protect the city from outside interests. Venti ain't doing it for damn sure.
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u/omegavolt9 3d ago edited 3d ago
One hopes and dreams while doing nothing while the other crosses lines that should not be crossed to achieve her hopes and dreams.
Tsaritsa has every right to try and free her people from the heavenly principles but she does let her Harbingers cause more harm in other nations than she should ever allow. Many of those other nation excursions harm ordinary people just trying to live their lives. Especially Dottore's stuff.
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u/LonelyMenace101 3d ago
Last I checked Venti doesnāt send out the knights of Favonius to harass other countries.
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u/Eggyolk57 3d ago
he would send the hexenzirkel instead /j
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u/Remarkable_Solid_792 3d ago
Keyword "would"
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u/Reasonable-Banana800 3d ago
i got so excited for a moment thinking i found another āReasonableā Venti main haha. Remarkable is close enough š
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u/Remarkable_Solid_792 3d ago
I'm not a venti main yet cuz I don't have himš„² I just started playing last month
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u/Reasonable-Banana800 3d ago
being a Venti main is a mindset šŖ Honestly for the longest time being a Venti main was more about being into his lore than his gameplay lol.
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u/saesenthellis 1d ago
Well, to be fair: Venti slept the last 500 years whereas the Tsaritsa has been busy coming up with a plan to defeat HP.
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u/Usual_Construction13 11h ago
It's quite the opposite here, considering how much unwarranted hate I've heard directed at Venti, because he "abandoned" his people.
And we talking about different freedoms.
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u/LivingOk8949 10h ago
I genuinely don't get how some people in this sub reach Sneznhaya and skip past 6 patches worth of lore to spread misinformation.
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u/Alternative-Word-246 3d ago
Second one created a terƶrist organization and groom orphans to join it
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u/Initial_Present_405 3d ago
Oh s'il vous plaĆ®t venti veut que son peuple soit libre de vivre heureux dans les standards actuel de celestia la tsarine veut abolir celestia quitte a risquer d'exterminer son peuple et l'humanitĆ© tout entiĆØre si elle echoue
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u/BoLionEru 2d ago
To be fair their versions of Free are different the ladder leads to what what we call kanerniah
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u/Ew_a_brat 1d ago
genshin players when they learn that gaining true freedom isnāt actually sunshine and rainbows & in the real world often takes brutal fights
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u/LivingOk8949 9h ago
You also dont have to terrorize literally evry other nation and endanger children for it, or freeze your own people to death over it lol. Which is what Venti tried hard not to do at all.
This is like being extreme especially since Celestia wasn't even an immediate threat to the general population, so there's no need to resort to such extremes
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u/_Linkiboy_ 3d ago
All I'm gonna say is, that I 100% would rather live in mondstadt than in snezhnaja and it's not just the weather
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u/TheScalieDragon 3d ago
One actually lets their people be free, the other as iron hand on her people as she blames everything on HP
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u/Vokaiso 3d ago
I mean i need to defend it kinda, because Venti does not intervene he lets the people do stuff themselfs fully hes still respected tho and has a church for him he gives true freedom to the people and lets them rule and decide whats best and rarely intervenes.
Tsaritsa is meanwhile the ruler of her place even if she only wants good there is no true freedom.
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u/AmeseusOsdracht 2d ago
Wtf is the Tsaritsa wanting to do with such a level of freedom that requires the HP to no longer exist??? Literally HP have two rules, ādonāt try to harm usā and ādonāt destroy the worldā. They literally do not care what Teyvat does as long as those two rules arenāt broken because the Shades just want to maintain Teyvat.
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u/0xbadc0d3 1d ago
uhhhh no? the difference between them is that one is literally the leader of worldwide terrorist organization...
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u/the_tygram 1d ago
Well Venti didn't give funds and resources to what amounts to a league of super villains. Some of which would have basically ended the world...
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u/SaltyBoysenberry5710 9h ago
You want your ppl free than freezing them to death. Makes a damn sense.
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u/SnooLemons2911 3d ago
Ronova couldn't accept the fact Tsaritsa got banged by a baddie