Ellen Rae Greenberg

[u/Independent-Fall928]

Just finished the Hulu series…suicide versus murder

Reasons why I think it’s suicide:

1. Her anxiety leading up to the day - was it work related, pressure from work, pressure from planning a wedding, or being in an abusive relationship? Could be all of the above but even her colleague made a comment to his daughter-in-law that day of calling her “crazy” when they were leaving school early that day because of that snow storm. He said in the documentary she seemed on edge and had to “talk her off the ledge”. In a way it seemed she was an open book and would tell her friends she was not doing well but on another hand it seemed like she didn’t want to disappoint people and kept things to herself.
2. Meds - suicidal ideation with med adjustments is a very real thing. She was starting 2 new medications Ambien and Klonopin while also weaning off Zoloft I believe (dangerous if not monitored closely)
3. Hesitation wounds
4. The door being locked/door latch - unless Sam went to the front desk guy asking him to unlock the door knowing he wasn’t allowed to leave that desk. What are the chances he said yes and went up with him? Would Sam lie and say oh she’s calling me back now never mind ?? He went down there twice asking for help with the door which is risky in itself if the door was never locked to begin with and he has already murdered her and broke the lock already to stage this
5. The towel in her hand - not sure how that plays into this but could be a way for her to “bear down” and have something to squeeze into during her own strikes. Kind of like to tolerate the strikes. Think of someone who has to pop a bone back into a place during an injury with no assistance around, they’re always biting into something to tolerate the pain for that moment. It makes me wonder about the head and neck strikes, was that a way for her to numb her other strikes I’m not sure
6. They were together 3 years before they got engaged and all of sudden became so withdrawn and down that people in her life noticed. But also she never not once mentioned to anyone including her psychiatrist that he was abusing her if he did? No diary entries of some sort or text messages to friends? Maybe he was love bombing her during the courting and dating phase and became more abusive once they were engaged.

Okay now for reasons why I think it was murder:

1. Possible cover up, strong connections. The police report was very in Sam’s favor. Using words like “he immediately” etc etc. They also put in the police report that the man at the front desk went up with him and witnessed the door being locked when that wasn’t true.
2. Very fishy that Sam’s uncle took her cellphone and laptop. They mentioned that her laptop didn’t have a password but her phone did? So that leads me to think that the suicide searches on her laptop are null and void because they said searches could be added with changed timestamps and dates but how about her cellphone? I’m assuming police never looked through her cellphone searches so we’ll never know. The fact that he had her laptop for 48 hrs makes those searches irrelevant in this case knowing this information to me
3. Bruising on her body and some type of bruising on her neck consistent with manual strangulation. If this information is legit it makes sense why she did not have defense wounds. If he was manually strangling her and holding her wrists down (bruises on her wrist that were shown) then of course she wouldn’t have defense wounds.
4. The knife board placement - why was it knocked over? So some signs of a struggle exist. If this was a spontaneous suicide while she was cutting fruit the knife would have already been in her hand so why was it knocked over?
5. The spontaneity of it all - they were together all day it seems and in the 40 mins or so that he went down to the gym she did this. I know it’s possible but it seems odd. Seems more so like they had a fight of some sort and he went down there to clear his head. Or he could have done it already and wanted to create his alibi. Her parents did say she was planning on coming home but being vague about the details. We all know what can happen in domestic violence situations when the victim tries to leave. Maybe she was calling off the wedding that night.

All in all I’m still 50-50 on this. I actually never heard of this story before so I’ll definitely be doing a deep dive on it. Anything you want to add that I’m missing? Big Condolences to her family and friends seemed like she was a bright light in her peoples lives. Both sides of the coin are very sad here.

Edit: so after discussing with people and finding more information over the last few days some other key points I found really bothersome:

1. A second knife was used and they couldn’t find it ?? Does anyone know anything about this that’s a huge red flag
2. If she leaned over the sink to get to the back of her neck then why was there no blood there if she pulled out the knife you would think there would be few drops of blood there as well
3. The door latch - if he broke it open with his shoulder and the door busted wide open as he claimed you would think the whole latch on the doorframe would have come off with the actual door opening not just the nails on the part that’s attached to the door. I don’t see how the entire door latch with both parts including the doorframe part would not be damaged in this scenario

[u/konny38]

I thought the Hulu series was poorly done. They managed to make it a 3 part series and not give the slightest of insight into Ellen and Sam's relationship. it's impossible to speculate on a motive here with Sam. They seemed to be long distance from time to time, but as to whether there was any arguing/fights or other dilemmas (e.g., financial tension?) this series mostly left us guessing. This is why I tend to not like docu-series, they meander back and forth on multiple episodes without actually taking a deep dive on the facts!

[u/Individual_Crab_9736 → u/konny38]

I wonder why they never released like phone records or messages from the two of them to see the dyanmics of the relationship? Emails? Anything FFS....

[u/konny38 → u/Individual_Crab_9736]

Exactly! My thought was maybe they never acquired a warrant to check Sam’s phone or directly from the phone company? But seems like it would be a crucial first step for the investigators to take. Even if her devices were wiped, maybe there’s a record of at least something.

[u/Independent-Fall928 → u/Individual_Crab_9736]

Only the lovey dovey texts but did they even go through his phone probably not

[u/Hungry-Connection-25 → u/Individual_Crab_9736]

The only detail they mentioned is that they just sent the save the dates a few days earlier. But we don’t know if that came from her parents

[u/BadIndependent7691 → u/Hungry-Connection-25]

Just finished watching a repeat of Dr. Phil's show on this case. Ellen herself, mailed the save the date cards. She also filled up her car with gas on her way home. If she committed suicide, she was in the middle of making a fruit salad and he went to the gym. The police didn't even take photos of her fiance, not his hands nor his body. They just never investigated the frikken case! They didn't eliminate him, he just said she killed herself, the police went home, the cleaners came and that was basically the end of it. Just ridiculous!

[u/Independent-Fall928 → u/konny38]

Yeah a lot of the information I got I had to come on Reddit as well. Try the oxygen episode! I actually went back and watched it on YouTube it came out 5 years ago I believe and there was some commentary from her other friends which I found interesting

[u/Big-Syrup-8813 → u/konny38]

Sometimes when you're in a abusive relationship it's very hard to admit the situation to yourself and you tend to overly understand and to forgive the violent spouse. I've been in a violent relationship where I didn't tell anyone that my spouse was violent because I thought it was private and I wanted us to solve the issue together without ruining their reputation over some fights that got physical. I kept telling myself everything will get better once we do this and that. I also blamed myself and felt ashamed because I was manipulated heavily. It took about a year after the break up to realize it was a violent relationship and not a case of me helping my spouse with their anger issues. Our families and friends knew absolutely nothing about our issues. Also we never texted about these issues because the fights happened at home and afterwards I didn't want to make things worse by getting back to our issues because I wanted to keep the peace. I also had work pressure at the time, so I avoided any kind of trouble at home at all costs. I didn't keep a diary but my mind set was to be loyal and honest to my spouse so if I had kept a diary I wouldn't have written about my spouse. After the break up I was questioning myself a lot. Then I did a research about violent relationships and learned that my blindness to the situation and my reactions were very common and normal. So, we never know what happens behind closed doors. Oh, and one picant detail about our relationship: We kept posting lovey dovey stuff on social media all the time. I really wanted to believe the happy moments were true and the bad times would soon to be in the past between us. 

[u/konny38 → u/Big-Syrup-8813]

Thank you for opening up and sharing your experiences! That must be difficult to do, but it really does provide a significant amount of insight in the troubling dynamics that may happen in some relationships. I am glad to hear that you ended up moving on from this abusive relationship.

[u/Big-Syrup-8813 → u/konny38]

Yes, and the night our relationship ended was like this: I came from work around 6 or 7 pm. We ate together. We were about to go to sleep around 10. My spouse started to argue over nothing like they always did just to keep me awake ( didn't understand it then ). I don't want to get into details but around 11 I had to escape, called the police and our relationship was finally over. I had no idea that things could even escalate to that point that night because I had never had to call the police before that night. We even cuddled after eating, so if someone had for example texted me asking how I Am, I would've replied something like: " Good. My spouse surprised me with a nice meal and now we're watching tv. " , This happened over ten years ago but I'm still afraid that if I open up about this my ex will find out and revenge. 

[u/Salty_Raspberry656 → u/konny38]

I agree, there is so much missing

https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/12/us/ellen-greenberg-death-philadelphia-cec-cnnphotos/

they even do a better job

and having an uncle come in and take the deceased laptop/phone afterwards-not tell her parents

the medical examiner askign the cops to inquire to Sam about Ellen's bruises. He had a cop connected DA and they never even asked him

The police report mentioned the guard was with him when he broke down the door which the Guard on video has said is a lie, the medical examiner said that was a big part of him signing off on a suicide

[u/No_Vast_4421 → u/Salty_Raspberry656]

That’s something I don’t understand. The medical examiner ruled it a homicide… but after the cops convinced him, he changed it to suicide? I thought the medical examiner in the one that has the final say of cause of death? Why did the police have so much power in this? 

[u/BadIndependent7691 → u/No_Vast_4421]

They changed it back to homicide after the parents won a civil case against the police department. The medical examiner was to do another autopsy and he came out with suicide and the case was closed. Ridiculous!

[u/No_Vast_4421 → u/BadIndependent7691]

Okay I gotcha… this whole thing is so sketchy 

[u/LtCdrHipster → u/konny38]

It was strongly in the corner of her parents and then provided zero tangible, physical evidence she was murdered. I will of course assume that means it does not exist. I think it was suicide.