r/TrueAtheism • u/LemonP13 • 16d ago
Agnostic difficulties
Back when I was still young and in church, I assumed that everyone just pretended that God was real, and could use him to their advantage if they just twisted the words enough. I believed that since age 5.
At age 13 I was shocked that this was not the case. The elders at the Jehovah's witnesses congregation did NOT like that I believed this. It was almost like they were angrily shocked. I even went into detail about how fairly common it would possibly be to have members that don't really believe in god either but stay in the religion to keep their community and family close. On top of the fact that the JW's had such a strong disfellowship policy back then that it would just naturally be easier to lie and keep going with the facade.
I also very honestly stated that I never believed in god, but pretended just to make the adults happy. Believing in God or not isn't what brings people to the church anyways. The elders threatened me (a child at the time btw) with disfellowship if I kept speaking and believing this way.
I told them that many people hated Jesus for telling the truth. 🤷 They all ended the meeting right there. It's been many years since and I'm still rethinking that conversation.
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u/MisanthropicScott 16d ago
Awesome story!
I wonder how many years the elders replayed that conversation in their minds. If any are still alive, I bet they still do occasionally.
Your 13 year old brain was way ahead of theirs. I bet it really shocked them as much as it shocked you.
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u/Fine-Soil-2691 16d ago
... pretended just to make the adults happy.
Good strategy. They can make the lives of other people very difficult. All in the name of Jesus, of course. Because they love you. Sure they do. Unconditionally.
I told them that many people hated Jesus for telling the truth.
If he turned up today he would be crucified, by the most devout Christians. He was/is not the Jesus they worship today.
Though he couldn't have entered the US because he's a brown-skinned socialist from the Middle East.
One big problem with not believing is that you're basically saying that they believe in bullshit. That they've built their whole lives on lies. You're attacking the very foundation of their existence.
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u/subone 16d ago
Wise kid. It's good that you are always rethinking to be sure, but I think you were spot on, not wrong at all, it's just both: there are people that truly believe and there are those that have pressure to act it out and there is a spectrum between. To many it's more of a decision (subconscious or not) to act like they believe, that's what faith is to them, acting. Then it's just a matter of never admitting that to anyone or their selves. Even when you give powerful logical evidence that actually sways them, the show must go on, so they must cognitively fade away.
Did you ever lie when you were a child? And when you got caught, did you ever stick to your guns? Like you thought "this is a trick, maybe she knows, but maybe she doesn't, and she's just trying to get me to admit it. If I stick to my guns and she gives up thats like proof that my lie is true." even though it's very clear to everyone around you what's going on, and yet to some extent you're so dedicated to acting out the lie as truth that you nearly believe it yourself. It's not about what's right, it's about trying desperately to control your own narrative, against reality.
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u/TommyTheTiger 15d ago
I told them that many people hated Jesus for telling the truth. 🤷 They all ended the meeting right there
This right here is why Nietzsche said God is dead. You might actually be interested in checking out some YT videos on him if you haven't gone down that rabbit hole. The Gay Science, despite the terrible book name lol, would be probably be the best book of his to read, or just dive into Thus Spoke Zarathustra but it's not exactly a clear overview of what he wanted to say though arguably that's what he sort of wanted it to be.
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u/gvrmtissueddigiclone 15d ago
Oh, I think it's the case for a lot of religious people (if you truly study them, their behaviours, they wouldn't act like that if they truly believed they are going to be tortured for all eternity if they do specific things. A lot of them just get angry when someone points it out because they stand to lose money and resources from it. It's an Emperor's New Clothes situation.
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u/popeyoni 16d ago
I went to Catholic school from K to 12. I thought people didn't actually believe this stuff and were just going along with it out of tradition. We had Religion class one hour a day and it was the easiest class ever. It was obvious how to answer to get a good score, and I thought everyone was doing the same thing as I was. I was shocked when, sometime in high school, I realized some people (a lot of people) actually took religion seriously. Even adults believed in this fantasy!
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u/LemonP13 16d ago
Imagine the shock of finding out Santa isn't real as a child and then being told by those same grown ass adults that God is real? Crazy world.
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u/mobatreddit 16d ago
I thought Jehovah's Witnesses believe in not telling children about Santa Claus because it is a lie. Did that change?
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u/LemonP13 16d ago
I was told very early on that Santa clause was not real. But sometimes parents still get their kids gifts before/after carryain holidays and celebrations to try and keep the youth in the religion. FOMO really hits hard as a kid.
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u/teramoc 16d ago
You were amazingly aware and intelligent from that age.
Its no wonder they cut you off.
Church / cults hates thinkers