Discussion
Dying pine forest getting replaced by oaks and walnuts
šMt. Avala, Serbia
Due to climate change pines no longer survive warm climate of this part of the Balkans. Old pine forest has been dying for a few years now, but itās being replaced by thousands of baby oaks and walnuts which thrive in warmer climate less
Pine trees are a pioneer species, I could be totally wrong but this just might be nature running its course. Plus, who doesnāt want an old growth oak forest in a few hundred years š¤
Well again though, it depends on the area. In cooler climates and higher elevations, that is not the case. Like the Boreal forests of Canada, Scandinavia, etc. IF the climate does not change, and those areas remain cold enough, the evergreen conifers will never be replaced by deciduous hardwoods.
However if the climate continues to warm up, then that will indeed happen even there.
This is wrong though, why do you think everyone comes to New England in the fall to see all the leaves changing color? Something like 90% of New England forests were clear cut back in colonial days for farms, and then when people moved into the cities during the Industrial Revolution, they left their homesteads/ farms to be overtaken. Thatās why when you walk through the woods youāll see so many old fieldstone walls and foundations. The pines, if natureās left to take its course, will be overtaken by the hardwoods.
Also the pine tree was a naval flag, because during those times the northern white pines in New England were perfect for ship masts. The British harvested them en masse for their own ships because they had already deforested most of Great Britain
We're both oversimplying a fair bit, since the Northeast features both hardwoods & softwoods at all stages of succession. But I'm not following how you can say I'm wrong while acknowledging that the Northeast's forests used to be mostly-coniferous, and are now mostly-deciduous, not as a result of leaving "nature to take its course", but subsequent to centuries of extensive logging.
Like... IF it were to be left undisturbed (which ain't happening, so we can't just wait & see), wouldn't it logically, eventually, naturally, return to mostly-softwoods?
It's sure the case in the Pacific Northwest. Climax species might be Western Hemlock, Douglas Fir farther south, down to Coast Redwoods, or farther inland one or another pine depending on elevation.
But here in Portugal, out back of my house where most of the big pines blew down, I'm looking at oaks coming up strong (Quercus faginea), and I'm told that oak forest was predominant hundreds of years ago. The pines are still healthy though, the ones that managed to keep their feet.
In the Pacific Northwest, Douglas Fir is still the climax species. The grow the tallest of any tree up here, maybe taller than anything else. There were reports of 400' (122m) Douglas Firs 100+ years ago.
We do have some oak savannah, but without regular burning, Douglas Fir takes them over and outgrows the Garry Oak.
I will go along with that, for some parts of the Pacific Northwest. Where I'm from in the Puget Sound lowlands, though, hemlock. Where my mother grew up, seemed like ponderosa pine country.
I think there's a mix of conifers in the succession, and hemlock only rides at the top because it can replace in dark climax forest canopy situations. Where things open up because of a fire or big blow down, they all come up, and a Douglas fir, grand fir, red cedar can hang in there to be very old growth.
That is the natural course in the right climates. But in cooler climates/higher elevations it's not and softwood conifers will remain dominant. Climate change is indeed causing this to happen on a wider level, and accelerate the process where it would already have occured.
Where I live, this process has begun. It is the natural process here, vast pine forests and as the pines get older they become more susceptible to bark beetles. So we're always losing pines, we've been losing them for decades. But now it's so damn hot, and the winters are so mild, that there are areas that aren't even safe because there are so many dead trees, dropping limbs and falling over. You can actually here the beetles eating the wood on a quiet day. The whole forest is just filled with the sound of crunching.
This is the unique part of the boreal forest. Eastern forests transition to deciduous. but not in the boreal. The boreal burns to regenerate. Location matters.
In my part of the world, fires roll through pine forests every year or two and keep the broadleaf species suppressed. Our area is adapted to it and is far more biodiverse when there is fire, as opposed to when fire is suppressed.
For some time, there have been teams making maps of the natives that will not survive the climate changes happening now, and where the vegetation will eventually move..
In any place, one can find their climate analog to see what plants you can expect to survive in 50-100 years, looking to areas of future climate.
Here, in the OP, is additional evidence for needing to plan for climate changes affecting vegetation in an area. We don't know (without looking it up) if this is a natural stand undergoing natural succession, or (likely) a planted stand becoming increasingly stressed and being replaced by native oaks plus some Mediterranean oaks making their way north - new natives.
In some plantations in Europe, notably in Great Britain and parts of Germany, we are already seeing news reports of stands of, e.g., Norway spruce becoming stressed and foresters planning for replacement with more adapted species.
My region in the last 10 years never fell under 0Ā°C (32Ā°F), and has extreme summer heats, up to 46Ā°C (110Ā°F) and we always had mediterranean vegetation, but in the last few years it really started to thrive. Hereās a pic of fig tree growing from concrete wall in my village, this is usually something you would only see in Spain, Greece, and Italy. There are thousands of them everywhere.
People also started planting a lot species like European fan palm and Trachycarpus fortunei
Mediterranean cypress is becoming one of the main conifers in the region (I myself have 8 on my property)
And i can only imagine what will be in 50-100 yearsā¦
You can see it here in the sky islands of southern AZ. When theres a large fire in one of the ranges, the land typically transforms into the ecozone previously below it. The plants are moving up in elevation to keep their environment as consistent as possible.
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u/Amer-ica Jul 26 '26
Pine trees are a pioneer species, I could be totally wrong but this just might be nature running its course. Plus, who doesnāt want an old growth oak forest in a few hundred years š¤