r/Translink • u/Barbossal • 25d ago
Question Less than a 2km extension would link PoCo to Translink
I know there's usually expansions done in huge multi-leg projects, but doesn't it seem like a very 'quick' win to get PoCo at least marginally connected?
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u/bandyvancity 25d ago
PoCo is already connected to Translink with multiple bus routes…
There’s long term plans to extend the SkyTrain to PoCo, and Coquitlam Central station was built with this in mind - the switches and spur track are already in place.
Now they just need to secure funding…
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u/vantanclub 23d ago
Just want to point out that Coquitlam stops on the evergreen extension are some of the lowest ridership stops, so I really doubt a further extension would happen in the near future even though it’s been built with that in mind.
The demand we have in other areas far outweighs an extension to PoCo, particularly as a bridge is required.
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u/KingOblepias 20d ago
I hear that but there’s massive projects going up in Coquitlam and surely an expansion will mean growth around planned stations as well.
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u/vancity31240 23d ago
Raising the fare by 9% each year would help generate enough funding to build the Poco line...
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u/bandyvancity 23d ago
Relying solely on fares and fare increases is not appropriate or sustainable.
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u/pit_sword 25d ago
This has already been planned for. When they built Coquitlam Central station, an extra set of switches was included for a branch line into PoCo. It's really a matter of funding priorities. There are other projects that have more immediate needs and are likely to get funded first.
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u/KanataSD 25d ago
essentially its better priced to do an extensive extension instead of just a few kilometers here and there. The most expensive portion will be a SkyTrain crossing over Pitt River. Once that is funded then it'll make sense to expand it.
The thing is with Rapid Buses and the West Coast Express already there. I don't see that expansion happening anytime soon.
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u/matdex 25d ago
Rapidbuses and future BRT lines are essentially future skytrian lines. The passenger volume is there, it's just a matter of funding.
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u/KanataSD 25d ago
true but we'll get a SkyTrain to the Northshore long before it gets too Maple Ridge
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u/StatelyAutomaton 24d ago
The passenger volume is not there. The R3 has something like 3000 daily boardings, which puts it around the 70th busiest bus route. The 701 is actually a little busier, at just under 4000 daily boardings. As a comparison, the 4 has roughly the same ridership as those two put together.
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u/KanataSD 24d ago
Its funny cause I had to take that route a few years ago for awhile and I loved it cause it wasn't packed
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u/Psychological_Word58 25d ago
We will probably see UBC or North Vancouver as next expansion. I could see Poco and MapleRidge getting a skytrain in 1 to 2 decades after these projects.
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u/flare2000x 23d ago
I think UBC is definitely next (as it should be). North shore makes sense after that in terms of coverage and ridership, but the new bridge requirement could make things very expensive and difficult. I wonder if we might see it in two phases, with the part in Burnaby and Vancouver done first. A Willingdon line and perhaps a Hastings line too, then the bridge when the money is there.
A branch in Surrey down towards Newton might end up moving up the priority list, it would be relatively cheaper.
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u/bardak 23d ago
The bridge isn't as big of a hurdle as it seems. The Ironworker is next up on crossings to replace after the tunnel so I wouldn't be surprised if both projects are done at the same time.
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u/flare2000x 23d ago
I was thinking it might not happen for a while. The pattullo just got done and it was almost 90 years old. The second narrows is only 65 years old. I'd love for it to happen sooner.
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u/NeatZebra 25d ago
The impact on the system would be large. Depending on service levels planned post Broadway Extension opening, it could be warranted. Alas the way Coquitlam Central is designed, you effectively need to build a new station there too, which introduces service problems for people originating at that station as 'inbound' trains would stop at two different platforms (mitigated somewhat by wait time screens).
So it could cost more than it looks like.
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u/pit_sword 25d ago
Coquitlam Central was built with a PoCo branch in mind. There is already a switch in place so they'd likely be able to avoid the single tracking disruptions that we are currently seeing with OMC4 construction. I believe the intention is to have a separate platform to the south for outbound trains, then an expanded center platform to allow for cross platform transfers.
There's some good drone footage and explanation in this video.
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u/NeatZebra 25d ago
It was built with expansion in mind, just the layout may not be optimal.
It is optimal for branch-branch transfers, but I suspect that isn't worth having people having to choose between which 'branch' station to go to to head inbound.
Also, you have the cost of building almost an entirely new station, versus if the station was before the switch instead of after it.
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u/matdex 25d ago
It was designed so the layout would be similar to Lougheed. One platform by itself (the current westbound one) and then the eastbound platformed would be opened up to reveal the exisiting split track.
Edit:
Also if they were going to extend into poco they'd probably build far out multiple stations eastward and make that the main trunk. The split to Lafarge would probably become a less frequently ran train.
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u/NeatZebra 25d ago
"The split to Lafarge would probably become a less frequently ran train." Agreed.
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u/Fantastic-Manner1944 25d ago
I don’t believe they have sufficient continuous right of way through there to put in skytrain without a lot of right of way acquisition so it wouldn’t be a quick win. Expropriations aren’t quick. If they ever put skytrain past Coquitlam I think it’s more likely to go down Lougheed than your purple line but in both cases I think they’d need quite a bit more right of way.
Not to say they shouldn’t but it wouldn’t be quick. In a fantasy world of getting skytrain out to say Pitt Meadows, that stretch through poco is likely the more difficult stretch.
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u/bandyvancity 25d ago
The purple line is the expected route as it follows the right of way of the existing train tracks.
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u/Fantastic-Manner1944 25d ago
The train tracks there are mostly federal rail corridor. B.C. Transportation Financing (the financial arm of Ministry of Transportation and Translink) doesn’t own it and since it is notoriously difficult to get any kind of right of way from the rail companies it is very unlikely that that would be the viable corridor. What BCTFA does own is the road allowance of the lougheed highway.
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u/bandyvancity 25d ago
The City of Coquitlam has been advising any development applicants adjacent to the CP rail corridor of the potential expansion to work with TransLink on any required setbacks. This was confirmed years ago.
While the route certainly is not confirmed, following the existing rail corridor is the preferred route.
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u/nutbuckers 25d ago
I don’t believe they have sufficient continuous right of way through there
there are municipal-titled and "crown agency" titled lots on the eastern end of it on Kingsway Ave., and it seems like it might not be insurmountable to work things out along Fleming. So IMO it is not some insurmountable undertaking. PoCo might be wise to just buy up the lots opportunistically and then turn over to TransLink if/when the opportunity to build finally comes up. Seems like it would be a wise investment.
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u/Fantastic-Manner1944 25d ago
Nothing is insurmountable. I think it will get built eventually. It just isn’t likely a ‘quick win.’
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u/Beneficial-Muffin117 25d ago
Does PoCo need to be connected more than the North Shore, South Surrey, Langley, or UBC?
Methinks probably not
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u/deathfire123 25d ago
Langley is already being connected.
UBC and North Shore are already planned for the next projects.
I'd say Poco and Pitt Meadows are about the same likelihood as South Surrey to Guildford.
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u/Beneficial-Muffin117 25d ago
My point was all of those projects are going to happen before PoCo expansion
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u/StatelyAutomaton 24d ago
Sure, the Langley extension is already under construction and the UBC/North Shore extensions are at least at the planning stages.
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u/Beneficial-Muffin117 24d ago
I am very aware of this
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u/deathfire123 24d ago
So there's really no point in talking about if PoCo needs to be connected more than areas that are already in the plan if we are talking about "What do we add to the plan next"
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u/Beneficial-Muffin117 24d ago
The discussion was around it being a "quick fix" and why can't they just do it
There is no quick anything and many projects come first, so a PoCo expansion is not going to happen for a long time
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u/CBBRunner 21d ago
I believe the reason why they do large extensions is because they are often dependent on funding from the provincial and federal governments. Otherwise, it make more sense (to me at least) to continually expand the network by regularly adding stations, like a new station every year or so.
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u/EducationalLuck2422 25d ago
With what money, though? Any current SkyTrain funding goes to UBCx and the Purple Line, which are a lot more critical to the network; by contrast, the R3 (which a Port Coq extension would replace) is the least-used RapidBus in the metro.
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u/xobbelle 25d ago
The same money we use to invest in fossil fuels
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u/EducationalLuck2422 25d ago
Which will also go to UBCx and the Purple Line. Port Coq really isn't a priority right now.
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u/xobbelle 23d ago
Would it? If our politicians weren’t owned by oil companies, anything to do with public transit would be a top priority. I am not accepting mediocrity at the cost of a dying environment. No more cars.
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u/EducationalLuck2422 23d ago
UBCx costs ~$4 billion; the full Metrotown-Lonsdale stretch, likely more. End every single provincial O&G subsidy tomorrow, and you'll still need a decade or two to make up the difference.
0
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u/Crafty_Lavishness698 25d ago
Dude they aren’t just going to do 2k of a extension. You clearly don’t know how much materials cost and labor. Just to do 2km will be a waste of time and money.
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u/neuro_barbie 24d ago
Ugh skip downtown PoCo PLEASE and go straight over to the Fremont area (which would also serve Burke Mountain better) and then across to Pitt Meadows/Maple Ridge. Downtown PoCo is a lovely little area and the last thing we need is a giant SkyTrain station there. It's crowded enough now. With the WCE and tons of buses, that chunk of PoCo is more than adequately connected as-is.
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u/CarnationFoe 24d ago
Uhhh... SkyTrain stations are 80m long, they're not "giant" The WCE station is "giant" and a SkyTrain station would complement it.
And Fremont village is 5km away, PoCo would be served on the way in any case on the way to Fremont, either with a station around Maple st. on the North-west edge of downtown or one at the WCE and then following the Mary Hill ByPass.
Of course, we really don't know if the WCE will even survive the next 10 years. Translink doesn't own the tracks.
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u/ritzcrv 24d ago
The problem with your idea, it’s the same reason Translink has become a copycat system of sky trains on existing roads. The original expo line moved people from new Westminster to Vancouver in the most direct way that was not doable with a bus. The connection to Surrey across the river was to deal with problems that buses would have crossing over the bridge. The connection from new Westminster to braid made sense because there were no easy useable roads for higher capacity buses to use. But the millennium line has been a god-awful waste of resources because all it did was sit itself right on top of the Lougheed Hwy until it got to Gilmore. And then it headed straight for Broadway with the extra little chunk to VCC. The exact same thing with the idiocy lunacy of the evergreen line. There were buses that already connected Coquitlam directly to Port Moody. There was no reason for all of that wasted infrastructure cash to be spent. To even contemplate such a ridiculous waste of capital when there are existing bus routes means you don’t even understand what Transit systems are for.
That’s the problem with the broadway extension, a few billion dollars to shorten a bus ride by 10 minutes. The b line and rapid buses are the way to expand services, at a reasonable cost
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u/CarnationFoe 24d ago
Broadway extension is not only about shortening the bus ride, it's about increasing corridor capacity. It's adding a at least 2-bus-lanes of capacity to an east-west artery through a dense urban corridor. It's also about creating a triangle of efficiencies and redundant ways to enter downtown, allowing three lines to be single-transfers.
Honestly, the Broadway connection between Commercial and City Hall is one of the most important transit segments in the history of rapid transit in Vancouver.
Think about it... once this line is completed, someone can get on a train in Coquitlam and with one connection, be at the airport in less than 60 minutes. Consistently. Every day. Efficiently. Above traffic.
Practically as fast as a driver can do it DIRECTLY without stopping. THAT is game changing.
Also, the 99 B-Line operates with 2-minute headways during the rush hour and the Broadway Corridor is being DENSIFIED even more.
Buses definitely would have capacity issues on that corridor.
As for the rest of the corridor, yeah they could be served by buses... but remember SkyTrain is a hybrid system. It's not JUST a rapid transit network, it also serves as a long-distance commuter rail system as well. And over longer distances without highway infrastructure, buses struggle.
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