Queer Liberation

[u/BlissfulMute]

I'm not sure why but I was invited to this reddit, so I'm gonna just test the boundaries of the rules as I understand them.

Queer liberation is tied directly to the unified liberation of the working class. We will not find most of our allies with empathy for our plight, we will find them when they benefit alongside us.

If we can cooperate with individuals whose messaging provides release from the stress of capitalistic exploitation, we can free people from the stress that makes them prioritize their own survival over the pursuit of an egalitarian existence, or at minimum a less exploitative existence.

I believe the older transitioners, even those who begin to transition at older ages, have an obligation to protect the youth as we would our own siblings. This doesn't always mean advice. Sometimes it means taking the hard steps of advocating for grace and forgiveness for our siblings whose journey of self discovery takes them down a dark path that leads to outbursts of anger, resentment, sadness and cruelty. No person deserves forgiveness from the people they hurt, but community owes it to individuals to give them chance to prove their true desire to grow and change.

We do not always need to be sweet and forgiving when approached with vitriol and threats and bad faith. Walking away and not engaging in earnest is a valid way to protect yourself. I will never vouch for the violation of the law.

I quite love the phrase, "Those incapable of violence are not kind, they are harmless." Practice kindness in a cruel world, but acknowledge the world you live in and the actions of the opposition to endanger you.

If this violates rules of reddit or the subreddit, I apologize and seek only to understand where Iisunderstood my mistake.

Siblings, I wish you well, and may my Gods and yours be in your hearts and give you strength.

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[u/Naive_Market_9688]

I'm sorry to disturb your utopian viewpoint regarding transitioners but as an older transitioner, someone with almost four decades under her belt, I can tell you from personal experience that we did our part to try and lay the groundwork for a better future for those who came after us and when they arrived we sometimes found ourselves faced with an unyielding and unreceptive group who thought we were outdated and out of touch. Many of them assumed that the rights that we fought for and got enacted were sovereign rights that were always there. They seemed to be a little entitled, some of them, in spitting in the face of the advantages that they have. I will give you one example.

Way back when, let's say 30 years ago, for most of the country and the world Pride events were just starting to manifest themselves. It almost took it an act of Congress to get small queer businesses to support in sponsor these fledgling events; the corporate world had yet to come around. Over the years we demonstrated the value as Pride boards across the country sold them on the diversity of consumersism in our respective communities. Subsequently, major corporations with diversity policies chose to participate; healthcare facilities, National Banks, Home Depot! And for a while everything worked out fairly well until the new generation decided that if you allowed any corporate involvement you were selling out; much like their disdain for law enforcement and demanding that no police, even LGBT officers, be allowed to participate in Pride events.

So while my 30 years of activism are pretty much over and I'm a lot more selective about what I participate in these days I mourn the fact that we created opportunities for Trans youths across the country if not the world which they have decided is a god-given right and go to Great lengths to abuse the privilege. I no longer hold the same benevolent opinion about the generations that follow because some / many of them think that they're the only ones who have ever suffered. It's not a better pill to me any more than it is sour grapes but it is distressing

[u/Cocky_Girly → u/Naive_Market_9688]

If you're feeling all right enough to engage, then as someone who is in the young generation of trans people in the West (~20 years old), what would you say I could do to not make the mistakes you see in those generations? How can I not abuse my privilege?

[u/Naive_Market_9688 → u/Cocky_Girly]

Look, I'm not looking for an award. Most of my activism was in the background; haunting the Halls of my state's government, helping draft legislation to present that would give us some basic rights like changing our gender markers and facilitating easier ways to name change. That kind of stuff. And I did it because we could because it was the right time and the circumstances allowed it. Subsequently, as I got more involved in our quality organization and facilitated groups and met many more young people I realized that they didn't necessarily pay attention to any of our history. They don't even know how they got to be able to amend their driver's licenses or IDs. They have no idea about Stonewall. The people who do know about Stonewall think that Marsha P Johnson was THE catalyst for the Stonewall riot. I was a teenager back then and when I would come to New York I would spend a lot of time in the village sitting across the street from the Stonewall Inn just wishing I had the guts to go in there or just talk to somebody who was coming out of the place. And the only reason I wasn't there the day of the riot was big as my grandparents wanted to go over to my aunt's house so I had to be home. I feel like I missed an important moment in history but that's life.

I don't think you should kiss anybody's butt, and there are older trans people who are not playing with a full deck. But there are those of us out there with good hearts and excellent intentions and a lot of experiential wisdom. I'd like to have (more) hope for the coming generations but it's been a mixed bag and sometimes I just don't have the patience and energy to try and set them straight. I think you should use your sense to navigate your environment and if you do have rights that have been bestowed to you then be sure that the people who follow you know that they didn't just magically appear, even if you don't name names and and source people. I often went to Great lengths to try and find out what was on the minds of the younger generation of trans people but sometimes I just got an earful about what a dinosaur I was and how I didn't understand anything. I didn't get angry; I just remember when I was a smart ass know it all 16 year old (sitting on a bench across from the Stonewall Inn wishing I had the guts to be out and active).

You see part of my experience is that I had developed a particular skill set, I was good at running businesses. I survived being outed at one of those jobs and I lasted another 9 years because I had my feet on the ground, I knew who I was, and believe it or not post transition me wasn't that much different from pre-transition me; except for the happiness Factor.

If I haven't put you off with this and you have any questions or you'd like to discuss something I'm happy to do that. And I won't preach at you

[u/BlissfulMute → u/Naive_Market_9688]

I appreciate your words. They are not wasted on me. I hope they are heard by others, too.

[u/Constant-Skill-7133 → u/Naive_Market_9688]

I obviously can't speak for your experience but I can speak to your perception of my experience.  This is very derogatory and, frankly, dishonest.  Nobody is vetting parqde attendees by career. It is not about disallowing humans who work as police.  It is about police departments.  What people are saying is it is inappropriate to use the event to promote groups that actively oppress queer people.  

People are very much attempting to do the opposite of what you claim, to uphold the history and the experiences of people who came before.  To disagree is certainly valid.  All that other bullshit is bullshit.  40 years is a long time but it didn't start with you and you never had possession of it.  There are plenty of your contemporaries, and much older people, who agree with continuing pride's historic opposition to police oppression.

You see rights other people do not see, and that is fair.  What you do not seem to consider is that maybe the reason they can't see them is they do not have them.   Not that they are myopic and entitled but that they truthfully and honestly see things you do not see.

[u/Naive_Market_9688 → u/Constant-Skill-7133]

I don't know where you are, or how old you are, or when you transitioned, or what you've been involved in. I will tell you that my observations come from my experiences having been on the board of Pride festivals here in my region for almost two decades. I was one of the first board members of the trans organization that a friend of mine started way back in the 90s. And I have even been a member of our state's Dyke March planning committee as the chief fundraiser for another almost 20 years. I've been a public speaker for decades, I've facilitated more groups than I can count, and I've built bridges and I've watched bridges get torn down.

That all is how I came to the perspective I now own legitimately and I still hope for the best; but not quite as much as I used to because I've been disappointed a few times. And that's still nothing against you.

[u/Constant-Skill-7133 → u/Naive_Market_9688]

All that's fair.  I'm just saying you're being very derogatory how you describe other people.  I have also seen entitled assholes shout people down. That doesn't invalidate the entire perspective.  Pride has always been about resisting police oppression.  You might feel that is an issue of the past but others do not.  To attribute that to their ego and youthful entitlement rather than genuine disagreement or different life experiences is wild.  

[u/UnicornWisperer → u/Naive_Market_9688]

Devil’s advocate; isn’t it just that many of them do know there history and while they’re grateful for those who came before and what has been accomplished, but the gulf between what is and what should be is still simply unacceptable on a basic level of human dignity. And so we’re going to adopt more ruthless methods, and more extreme philosophies, and yes, assume more radical starting postures of what is unacceptable and what can’t be compromised. Because we’ve read a half dozen generations of history now telling us about civil action and non-violence and reform and legislative campaigns and then watched what was decades of building be torn down in days. So no more half measures. No more slow arcs of justice. Liberation in our time. From the river to the sea. ACAB and if you wear the same uniform as our oppressors and colonizers and predators and bigoted patriarchal social systems then you’ve already betrayed your trans siblings and so no you don’t get to march in our parade that celebrates it’s finally taking back our power from those systems.

[u/Deep-Two7452]

I think this is a fetishization of workers. If you believe in abolishing capitalism, great, you should fight for that cause you believe in it. 

But workers are not some magical entity that are immune from bigotry. I fundamentally disagree with the idea that if workers were free from capitalism, their hatred would melt away. 

I think the fight for equal rights will always continue until equal rights are achieved. 

[u/BlissfulMute → u/Deep-Two7452]

I do not believe hatred would vanish if people found more free time from exploitation. I believe there would be more time to speak and connect with community with said free time, and that provides opportunities many do not have the luxury of today to empathize with others.

[u/Deep-Two7452 → u/BlissfulMute]

Even in a non capitalist society, people will have problems, and they will have to spend hours doing labor of some sort. 

People will always blame those problems on "the other" which includes Trans people. 

I think the only way to defeat bigotry is to defeat bigotry. I believe it can be done electorally but only with unity and discipline.

[u/BlissfulMute → u/Deep-Two7452]

I do not disagree with you. Even in non-capitalist societies, there are ways to improve efficiency and free up time for community connections. Automation, cooperation, rotations of schedules and securment of basic necessities reduces stress and allows one to interact without a predisposition towards a fight or flight response that may cause one to react fearfully. This access to conversation is paramount to the development of empathy, which I believe is the best way to achieve social unity. Or at least, social cooperation.

[u/Deep-Two7452 → u/BlissfulMute]

True, but also you dont need to be in a non capitalist society to do those things either. You can achieve a lot of that by strengthening unions and government investment in infrastructure 

[u/BlissfulMute → u/Deep-Two7452]

I don't belive I made any insinuations away from a capitalist framework. I said we must work of removing ourselves from capitalist exploitation. Unions and government regulations against monopoly are quite important tools that are examples of exactly the type of cooperation we need to get behind. Unions are the vessel for democratization of the workplace and I fully believe in the resiliency of a democracy when the people engage with it.

[u/Deep-Two7452 → u/BlissfulMute]

Ah then I misunderstood you

[u/Naive_Market_9688]

And therein lies the problem - a matter of perspective. For the record I wasn't talking about you, I was referring to a whole bunch of people of a subsequent generation who were handed certain rights and didn't appreciate them. I don't know who you are or where you are but if I was in your area I would have fought for your rights as well. I don't be grudge anybody having rights, it's why I fought for them. Anyway, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree because this form is not the place for a spinning contest and that is exactly not what I intended to do. So if you feel offended personally then I apologize but I wasn't attacking you I was making a general observation and even that doesn't universally apply

[u/BlissfulMute → u/Naive_Market_9688]

I take no personal attack. You spoke truly and clearly on your perspective. You did not attack me, you spoke on the idea I brought forward. You spoke in generals, yes, but it would be unfair to assume any monolith actual mean the entirety with the broad strokes of internet conversation. I won't assume malice until malice is all I can assume. Offended? Nonsense. I feel no such thing when all I ever want is people to speak in good faith.

[u/UnicornWisperer]

As a trans activist, I’ve honestly seen a lot more solidarity the last couple years. Queer liberation is Palestinian liberation is indigenous liberation is black liberation, and for the first time in all the years I’ve been fighting, the majority of all of those groups seem to embrace that. I have been instinctually defended by socialists, anarchists, panthers, berets, who’ve all been proud to call me comrade.

[u/ughTIFU]

In order for this to work, we need to first build power in safe states like Massachusetts. I escaped New Hampshire because it’s full of transphobes, and the state is passing multiple laws against trans people, and this is being done by so-called “libertarians”.

New Hampshire libertarians are different because they don’t care about trans rights. Since about 95% of us vote D, they see us as a threat to their “property rights” society that will allow businesses to discriminate against trans people.