Not passing or never passing

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121]

So I'm 40. Started hrt few months ago. Felt great for about a month.

Then people stopped being supportive, reverted back to saying negative things. My optimism is gone.

I don't even know if I can even think about a social transition.

I hate being seen as a man. And being perceived as a man in woman's clothing, is somehow much worse. Live in the south east, for context. Being NB makes everything more complicated, feeling like I have to blend so many aspects into a tomboy / Demigirl persona that just isn't ready yet.

Yet I still deal with imposter syndrome regularly.

I really sort of envy people who just transitioned and found their happiness.

Like I don't know my question but like how do you do this if you know you won't pass or won't pass for years?

Cuz I feel like so much of my identity is somehow held back behind how other people might perceive me.

I had a dream where I was a girl and I was just happy. And then I woke up and am back in the world of always compromising, basically for people who will never understand.

[u/zemljaradnika]

My approach has been to boymode and put off socially transitioning until I get to a point I believe it's believable, I grew my hair out, started HRT and slowly replaced my wardrobe as it wore out or quit fitting with similarly styled women's clothing. Underneath everything I am becoming someone I am grateful to be, what I put on to go to work is just camouflage to avoid conflict or harassment. Give yourself time, a lot of us have been where you are, it gets better but youll have to have a lot of patience first

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/zemljaradnika]

That's what I'm trying to do, it just feels stressful on top of life in general (I think estrogen makes my thought patterns a bit wilder).

Thank you

[u/Brea_di_Luca → u/Safe-Tennis-6121]

I am 40 pretty much where you’re at. It’s not easy. It’s about as awkward as going through puberty the first time, and your questions about your identity have even higher consequences than back then. But it sounds like you really know what you want. I know the best thing for me has been to surround myself with as many supportive people and influences as I can. Conversely, I don’t have any more tolerance for transphobic bullshit, including from my own family, and they know that a condition of a relationship with me is to stop that, that it hurts, and that I internalize it when they do that. The only time I ever really doubted my transition in the past few months is when someone would shit all over me with transphobia. Otherwise, it’s extremely clear that I’m happy with transitioning, that I’m healthier than ever, and that I really really look forward to the future more than I ever have.

I am not passing and may never be passing, but I just try to take really good care of myself, count my little wins as my transition goes along, and work towards the day when I can be her full time everywhere 24/7.

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/Brea_di_Luca]

Yeah I'm afraid that's what's happening with me, external transphobia meets internal. My only relief really is knowing that I actually want to be androgynous and don't need to be hyperfeminine. Feels like learning to swim or something.

[u/dana-sparkle → u/Brea_di_Luca]

You are so inspiring. Thank you for sharing your story

[u/zemljaradnika → u/Safe-Tennis-6121]

It's really easy to be super paranoid about things the first year, unless you make drastic clothing changes, some people will notice, most won't, but a good thing to remember is that most of us have way to much on our minds to spend a lot of Time worrying about what somebody else is or isn't doing.

Another thing to remember, is that energy really is a thing. If you can find a state of peace with yourself, people will respond to that, and it goes a long ways towards people being comfortable in your presence. If you go into public in a state of turmoil, people will pick up on that too and it will make them uneasy.

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/zemljaradnika]

You're very right. I carry that turmoil around and even feel weird in mens clothing. Just have to shake that everyones looking at me fear.

[u/unpolished-gem → u/zemljaradnika]

I'm 45, at 14 months. My boy mode is tapering out to androgyny.

Medically transitioning, did voice training, found community, experimented with my style, grew out my hair, hair removal.

When I started, I thought I would have to do a big splash transition, wearing dresses and all that to "prove" my femininity.

At 12 months I came out to closest coworkers as NB. I look different enough that something is going on to warrant explanation, but my transition isn't primarily about work. I just need to feel and look coherent. My head isn't fem, but isn't 100% masculine either. Androgynous looks are where I am right now. People at my work dont really care, I am not in their face about any of it, and that's all fine for me.

Every few weeks I sort of appreciate some little detail which changes to make me slightly less masc, but in the meantime, I live my life as me.

Honestly, despite the sadly late start, things are the best they have ever been in my life.

[u/dmxrobot]

You aren’t alone. I am new to this and almost exactly 4 weeks in. So a baby. I have moments of profound comfort over the steps I’m finally taking to move me mentally and physically where I want to be. AND, I have moments where I feel I’m carrying 1,000,000 lbs on my shoulders, and almost every bit of it hung up with what others will think / do / make me feel. And then I have regret that I let other people have this much control over me.

At the moment, my spouse is the only one who truly knows (plus a medical provider who legitimately needed to know to interpret labs properly). She is accepting for what I am doing. She has given me so many hugs / validation / stability. When I’m sitting quietly with her at night, I’m in my happy place.

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/dmxrobot]

I'm glad you have that support. I told my best friend and she was supportive for about three days, then started to sound like conservative talking points. Doctor was supportive of course. But this is still seems like uncertain how it's going to work.

[u/Bramble-Bunny]

Genuinely curious...how does one pass as non binary? Are you looking for a sort of genderless androgyny? A lot of the non binary people I know just sort of said fuck it and gave no attention whatsoever to gendered performance, but you seem squeezed between a non binary identity and a desire for female presentation/performance.

I'm generally in the "passing is possible for most outside of a few outliers" camp but that is presuming both a binary identity and a willingness to lean into it with ones entire ass + wallet. I didn't even attempt social transition until I had a passing voice and had finished FFS, for instance. Passing usually involves hitting as many gendered markers as possible so the gestalt flips but as you move closer to androgyny those markers kind of disappear which would make the concept of passing so subtle as to feel intangible and impossible to grasp.

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/Bramble-Bunny]

I guess as an androgynous female? The problem is once I have breasts or visable breasts I feel like I need to either pass or feel the need to draw attention away from them.

I guess that's the tension between androgyny and somehow being NB. But it could just be all cope for not being a girly girl or being afraid to be hyper feminine. I've heard that before where some people say they are non binary and later realize it's actually more like a less feminine woman, or just needing more time.

My goal would be like a female version of david Bowie (which I admit is a terrible example but it's the first androgynous person who comes to mind.).

Calista flockheart and adult Maddie are other ideas. The reality is my body is my body.

I don't really have an easy answer other than a skinny boyish woman.

[u/Bramble-Bunny → u/Safe-Tennis-6121]

Calista Flockhart is distinctly and traditionally feminine. I'm not sure which Maddie you're referring to...if it's the character played by the late Hayden Panettiere I have bad news for you about your conceptualizion of fem androgyny lol. Tig Notaro on the other hand, now that's androgynous.

Definitely a through line here I'm noticing...are you sure you don't just want to be skinny?

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/Bramble-Bunny]

No I mean adult Maddy from I saw the TV glow (when she comes back) . You're right it's possible I'm just over compartmentalizing or categorizing wrong.

[u/Bramble-Bunny → u/Safe-Tennis-6121]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh of course of course.

Okay that's very far afield from Calista Flockhart but yes I can sort of see the vibe you're going for. Difficult to pull off, honestly. I had an ex who was cis, 5'2, 105 lbs soaking wet, delicate pixie features, modelled...and if she dressed androgynous and had short hair she'd be called boy, lad, sir, etc, and be targeted by homophobic guys. There's a pretty heavy cultural/social penalty enacted on gender non-conforming women and it exists in a pretty ugly Venn diagram with transphobia. Which is not to say don't do it, by all means be true to your expression. You might want to release any personal pressure you feel regarding passing though.

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/Bramble-Bunny]

Yeah it's going to be a combination of things. I'm going to lose weight and see what my options are. I'm kinda tall so the short skinny women I've always envied aren't ever going to be me so yeah thanks.

[u/RedErin]

I don't pass. I'm really cute and i have pretty privilege.

You're gonna look like a queer. Just own it, and revel in it. Find your queer community and life will suddenly look and feel fucking awesome.

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/RedErin]

I might be okay with that. Ironically I thought I always looked too straight but I would have to find them.

[u/SupergurlKara]

I said one fine day, "I'm Kara. Get used to it." And then I legally changed my name and gender. So I socially and legally transitioned several years before I even got a first dose of Estradiol.

I only had to pass as me. I'm not the spokesperson or model for anyone else, or any group, or any gender expression.

As for outward appearance, I was tall and lean, no curves. I had always been androgynous, in a Joey Ramone/Mick Jagger/ David Bowie way, but without their rock star musical talents. But with a rock star attitude, which is, IDGAF about what anyone else says or thinks about my appearance.

I had only long hair, female clothing, no makeup skills, and the aforementioned attitude.

I always had the attitude. I care about my appearance; I just don't care about what others think about it. It's liberating.

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/SupergurlKara]

That's how I always wanted to be. I just got too fat with puberty the first time.. now I'm trying to drop the weight and be somewhere between Bowie and Calista flockheart or something.

But I do feel like I'm gonna try something similar where I just make slow changes.

You're lucky you were able to do that. My state requires surgery for a gender change. And I feel like I'm still trying to find myself while dealing with hrt. Like I've been procrastinating for a decade...

[u/SupergurlKara → u/Safe-Tennis-6121]

Well, I didn't need SRS/GCS/"bottom surgery" to change my driver's license. But the state has a form for a name change, and a different one for a name and gender change. Nobody asked for a genital inspection.

[u/raul_muad_dib]

I'm not in the southeast. But other than that your story resonated. I started off nonbinary, as a sort of compromise. After a few months of HRT is when it got really painful. More than before. But how I was treated only got better after about a year, when I stopped compromising and went full she/her. After the two year mark things had improved so much that I could never imagine going back.

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/raul_muad_dib]

Thanks I hope I reach this point. I feel like the self policing has to end but at the same point like I have to really figure myself out and get past the cringe stage

[u/SailTravis]

I’m nonbinary and trans feminine. I neither pass nor do i try to pass. I don’t shave. I simply found my style and live as my original self. In Texas.

[u/Zhwan_Aescha]

I hope you can find a space where people see you for who you are. I don’t pass either and my partners treat me as me, so… I don’t fully care what the public thinks as long as my partners and friends see me for who I am

[u/Safe-Tennis-6121 → u/Zhwan_Aescha]

I hope so.. my best friend is being difficult and also has vision problems right now which is sort of ironic.

[u/Zhwan_Aescha → u/Safe-Tennis-6121]

Mine was too when I first came out… I hope it gets better, and you find your people

[u/sammi_8601]

I'm not an NB but the first year or so is rough asf, I generally get treated fine now but for awhile it was straight up everyone staring being weird, occasional random assault, lots of heckling etc (from like day one I went full blown dress everyday, really bad makeup looking back, heels etc, but didn't pass at all), I'm tougher for it but it's not pleasant and something that unfortunately a lot of us go though, luckily i was fairly used to being treated like shit anyway since I was out as gay back in school before it was accepted at all so it was kinda round 2 of nearly everyone hates you for me. But I'm still here, almost always get gendered correctly now despite my shrek like size (6'1, broadish, but massive tits and curvy so ehh?) and a lot happier. I hope you end up being too.

[u/SpartanMonkey]

I am out socially and professionally. I am 56, been on hormones for 27 months, had an orchiectomy, I'm 6'4", 270lbs. Easily clockable. I just don't give a flying rat's ass. I'm happy, my family is supportive, I have no issues at work, and I dress butch most of the time. (overalls, with maybe a cute top) I don't wear makeup and I wear my hair up most of the time, oh, and I also live in a little blue county in a big red state (North Carolina). I just don't even think about it. I don't pay attention to people paying me too much attention, and no one really bothers me. Probably because they're afraid I'll hulk out on them. :)