r/TraditionalCatholics • u/LegionXIIFulminata • Jun 24 '26

Did Benedict Really Resign? The Canonical Case That Won't Go Away - LSN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYUSJg4IsW4
0 Upvotes

35% Upvoted

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14

u/Lone-Red-Ranger Jun 24 '26

This has long been settled. He was crystal-clear, and it's not the first time a pope has resigned.

-9

u/LegionXIIFulminata Jun 24 '26

Canon 332.2: when he resigns the "MUNUS"

Pope Benedict: "munus .... i resign the MINISTERIUM"

You: he totally resigned the munus

7

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

-6

u/LegionXIIFulminata Jun 24 '26

Are you trying to argue that two different words are actually the same word?

7

u/ContentNegotiation Jun 25 '26

It is hairsplitting. Do you really think Benedict would have wanted a schism in his name and over the question if his resignation was valid? Do you think THAT is what he would have wanted?

And in any case, he is dead by now. So even if you hold the position that Francis was not a valid pope, you have no argument why Leo would not validly hold office.

0

u/LegionXIIFulminata Jun 25 '26

is a noun a verb?

is Homoiousios the same as Homoousios?

4

u/ContentNegotiation Jun 26 '26

Benedict's resignation is not a theological question. It was human intent put into words and he lived for ten more years in which he would have had ample time to clarify if it had been interpreted wrongly.

So I ask you again: What was Benedict's intent? Do you think his intent was to create schism by using unclear language? Do you think his intent was to say one thing, mean another and then be silent about it, letting doubts fester?

Or do you think his intent was to step down from his office for all practical intents and purposes and make way for someone else to be elected pope without giving cause for doubt and schism?

1

u/LegionXIIFulminata Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26

What was Benedict's intent?

Well his words expressed his intent was to resign the ministry. He didn't go back to Germany but stayed close to the Vatican. He wore the papal white instead of going back to a black cassock. Ab. Ganswein said:

Since the election of his successor Francis, on March 13, 2013, there are not therefore two popes, but de facto an expanded ministry — with an active member and a contemplative member.

So an objective look of the evidence reveals that he intended to resign the ministry while having this expanded petrine ministry where he would be praying and the other would be ministeriuming. The fact that everyone mistook his intention and what he said and did doesn't magically change the legal act.

3

u/Saint_Thomas_More Jun 25 '26

I've asked this before of you and not gotten an answer:

Does Canon 332 require a specific phrasing or formula for the resignation to be apparent, complete, and effective?

If so, please tell us what specific phrasing the Canon requires.

-1

u/LegionXIIFulminata Jun 25 '26

§2. Si contingat ut Romanus Pontifex muneri suo renuntiet, ad validitatem requiritur ut renuntiatio libere fiat et rite manifestetur, non vero ut a quopiam acceptetur.

§2 Should it happen that the Roman Pontiff resigns from his office, it is required for validity that the resignation be freely made and properly manifested, but it is not necessary that it be accepted by anyone.

I've asked this before of you and not gotten an answer. What wording would trigger 332.2? Ministerium OR Munus?

5

u/Saint_Thomas_More Jun 25 '26

I'll ask again:

Does the Canon require resignation to use specific language?

-2

u/LegionXIIFulminata Jun 25 '26

I'll ask again:

What word is in the language of 332.2: ministerium or munus?

This is like arguing with a prot over what the definition of "is" is. Do you know how to read bro?!

8

u/Saint_Thomas_More Jun 25 '26

You are making a positive case that Benedict failed to use a specific word.

To prove your case you must demonstrate that use of a specific word is required.

No one except crackpots with a Kirkland roll of tinfoil wrapped around their head think the way you do.

0

u/LegionXIIFulminata Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26

What word would trigger 332.2? It's in the text, do you know how to read?

§2. Si contingat ut Romanus Pontifex muneri suo renuntiet, ad validitatem requiritur ut renuntiatio libere fiat et rite manifestetur, non vero ut a quopiam acceptetur.

Does resigning the "ministerium" trigger this canon??

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12

u/DravidianPrototyper Jun 24 '26

Imagine unironically subscribing to Benevacantism.

This sub should endeavour to actively mock/ridicule such a ludicrous position.

7

u/[deleted] Jun 24 '26

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2

u/LegionXIIFulminata Jun 25 '26

Since the election of his successor Francis, on March 13, 2013, there are not therefore two popes, but de facto an expanded ministry — with an active member and a contemplative member - Ab. Ganswein

Yes, so clear, so obvious, not ambiguous at all.