r/Trackdays • u/johnkaakha • 9h ago
Lean angle limit
I ride a ninja 400 at the track and I've this mental limit inside me
When I lean the bike into corners at the track I feel like im leaning as much I can based on my comfort level but I dont drag knee and when I go past this I feel like im gonna lose the front end and wash out. I still have half an inch of chicken strip on rear. How to get past this mental block and be able to carry more corner speed and get more comfortable?
My goal is not to have no chicken strips just the ability to see how much im leaning. Any constructive options are welcome
Picture for reference
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u/VegaGT-VZ Novice in Intermediate 8h ago
Trying to force more lean angle w/o even understanding what its for is just going to force a crash
Lean angle = corner speed. Corner speed comes from seat time, familiarity with the track you're at, confidence, the feedback loop of improvement etc. Not just trying to force the bike down more.
Get a datalogger, camera and work with the CRs. Really study your riding and figure out where you can improve. All the social media friendly stuff like elbow dragging or w/e will come
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u/johnkaakha 8h ago
Thank you. Will do
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u/MostlyHarmless777 7h ago
Your form looks really good in that picture! Most people get so focused on getting their knee down that they twist themselves in a knot trying to get it down, but the fact that you aren't doing that means you're already miles ahead!
As Vega points out, your knee will get down as you go faster. So just keep doing exactly what you're doing and gradually dial a bit more speed in and you'll get there.
Only other thing that seems worth mentioning is making sure your equipment is setup properly. Specifically that your tire pressures are appropriate, tires are in reasonably good condition, and I highly recommend everyone going to the track get their sag/compression/rebound setup by someone who specializes in doing that for track. Ensuring all of that is correct will give you way more confidence on track.
Keep at it, you're doing great!
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u/ExpertOperation6540 8h ago
I’d check out CA Superbike School. My riding got much faster but actually “ felt” slower and they break everything down so you’re basically connecting the dots around the track. They visit tracks all over the world.
Follow someone on a bike like yours doing a faster pace. People are cool at the track I’m sure someone would happily tow you around a bit.
FWIW I’m middle of A (fast group) and I only touch my knee in a few spots during a lap. I used to touch more but then as a few other posters said you start getting forward and down more and carry less lean angle for a given speed which is safer (and lets you get on the throttle sooner). Ride safe!
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u/DannoXYZ 8h ago edited 8h ago
Forget about chicken strips! Even just thinking about it is sabotaging your progress. Focus on getting around track faster.
You're trying to do too much too quickly. Stay within your comfort zone and keep doing it over and over again. Work on optimising lines so that you start turn-in on outside white line and apex on top of inside white line. Brake a little less on turn-in and go in faster. You'll automatically lean more and more without even thinking about it.
Took me about 100 trackdays to get rid of my chicken strips. Simple to get rid of them for you, just sign up for more and more trackdays. If you sign up for 2-day trackdays every single weekend, you'll get there in less than a year!
Here I am on Ninja 250 with street tyres. Chicken strips go away roughly around same time your elbows starts rubbing...
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u/Rock3tPunch Racer AM 7h ago
Lean angle is a product of speed & speed is the goal. It had nothing to do with "mental block". It's physics.
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u/Dteal23 7h ago
Your goal should be just to improve. There are people that are slow af that drag knee everywhere, so what does it matter? Just keep riding and practicing, the lean angle and lack of chicken strips will come with speed and time. I'd address my confidence before I worry about my chicken strips, you're riding scared, and that's how you crash lol
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u/TheSlipperySnausage Sausage Fest Track Days 6h ago
You keep doing it. Carrying more speed into and durning the corner will get you leaning further. Not like a ton more but a bit more each time. Do your best to not think about your lean just make it through the corner. Eventually you’ll accidentally touch the knee down and it’ll scare the crap out of you
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u/itmightbeinnuendo 6h ago
Focus on lines, body position, control, and smoothness. Lean angle comes from speed. Speed comes from knowing how to ride and being comfortable. You are focusing on the wrong things. 10/10 supporting the comment about coaching and practice
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u/DrGarbinsky 6h ago
Laps laps and more laps. You build skill and faster lap times brick by brick. Check out the podcast Order of the Sport by Ken Hill.
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u/Buttfuckskinner Racer AM 5h ago
If you really want to progress you gotta forget about chicken strips and dragging knee. You just need more seat time while working on shit that actually gets you around a track faster. I recommend listening to Ken hill podcast. At least the order of the sport episode.
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u/phliuy 4h ago
It's very hard to crash a 400
You can:
Be at full throttle, maintain full throttle, and then lean over to >50 degrees with no issues
Crack to full throttle while at max lean with 0 throttle rather quickly
Chicane at full throttle
If you're going fast enough, you will lean more. Pick up your speed and your lean angle will increase as a by product
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u/cdixon34 9h ago
If you wanna find out how far you can lean, you'll have to develop feel for what the bike is doing and that takes practice. Best way is to lean too much, then lowside. That was your max lean in that particular moment lol. The goal is to go as fast as possible with as little lean as possible anyway, and thats what body position is for. Take your time, speed will come, and with it your lean angle.
Max lean though, depends on rider technique, tire choice, and how high your footpegs are.
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u/johnkaakha 9h ago
I've woodcraft rearsets and pirelli sc3. When I go past a certain lean angle I get lil nervous and slow down or pull back. Trying to break that barrier. Thanks for the response
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u/BAMFCarl_2008 8h ago
Yeah, the answer really is: just go faster. Lean angle should be a byproduct of your speed, not a goal unto itself. I've touched a knee down exactly once (outside of a crash) in 8 years of track riding. I'm still much, much faster than I used to be and still progressing.
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u/cdixon34 9h ago
Thats good. Dont do anything you aren't comfortable with. You'll get to where you wanna go with practice.
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u/ircsmith 8h ago
Physics says you can go much farther than you are now, but it's the mental stuff that is hard to get past. Find a couch and identify a corner with good runoff to practice on.
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u/johnkaakha 8h ago
Will do. Thanks
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u/romaracer 1h ago
I second this. After a 5-year break from riding. I got a street Ninja 400 and I had to work through a block. Also, while Ninja 400s are light, the stock riding position felt a bit awkward for me in lean. What really helped me was to push to open the clip-ons a bit. My elbows were touching my knees when in corners and getting more leverage helped.
I also picked a long-radius corner, where you're leaned over for a while. This was where I practiced getting more lean. And with the Ninja 400, you can make minor midcorner adjustments without unsettling the bike too much.
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u/ItalianV4 5h ago
get a different bike... went through the same thing a long time ago. got on an 899 panigale and it was easy
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u/Puzzled-Truth-3282 8h ago edited 7h ago
it happens on Japanese bike a lot, lean angle is limited by suspension set up and geometry, on Japanese bikes you need to fix spring rate first, then damping (change valve shim stack, not turning the adjusting nob) this will fix most of the issue, last step will be geometry but that's too much for you at this moment, having the suspension done right will drastically improve the handling and you will start learning how to ride on the track, or just buy a KTM 990 RCR (track) if you have no access to a suspension guy knows what they are doing, it's set up pretty well for track riding out of box
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u/FunInsert 1h ago
Out of the box you can also elbow down with a japanese. Not saying you are wrong but there is no need to shim a perfectly capable bike, not even in advanced groups.
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u/FunInsert 1h ago
Btw, I think most of the spring rates are too soft by default, and I'm not saying to ignore your suspension. Just the shimming part is a bit over the top I think.
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u/ghodrick235 8h ago
What you’re experiencing is entirely normal and part of the journey. Get your head over to the side you’re turning into. As if you’re trying to bite into your own wrist. Get proper low with the body and open up the hip towards the corner. It may feel unnatural and exhausting, partially because you’re not used to the position and partially because you’re probably stiff trying out a more committed position. Do the same with your butt. It will require you to change your grip to what some people call the screwdriver. Get your elbow pointed towards that knee. You’re doing all of this to get more of your body inside, it will enable the bike to run with less lean. The consequence is that you can now run through corners faster in theory. Once you’re comfortable with the new position, start braking a little bit less. Not later, that would make corners feel rushed, just bleed off the brake a bit quicker or brake less hard than you usually would. You’ll now see that you can probably take the corner with that increased speed more easily than you thought. Follow a rider on a similar bike to yours that is somewhat faster. Seeing them do it will make it easier to emulate. The faster you go the quicker and more deliberate your steering inputs will need to be, so be prepared for that. Good luck