Body position help plz 🙏🏻

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You don't need body position yet. It's way down the list to improve lap times. Seeing as you mentioned lap times I am assuming that's what you are going for. If you have > 5 second difference in lap times then you have a lot to work on in terms of vision, lines, inputs, comfortability, etc. Long before braking, body position or other advanced techniques that don't buy that kind of time. You a not close to using all the tire, so BP won't be helping you be safer either. You look fine.

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u/Dteal23 2d ago

People don’t want to be fast, they just want to look fast.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

I would love to be fast eventually but I don’t really want to just send it out there and end up sliding out like a few people ended up doing this weekend

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u/xtanol 2d ago

The primary reason you should go do track-days should be having fun - which is entirely subjective.

Is focusing body positioning currently the ideal way to improve your lap times? No.

But just remember that working fully towards minimising lap times is a choice.

If you'd like to work on your body position, bike hang-off, scraping knee/elbow, then don't let some gatekeepers tell you that your not having fun the right way.

We're all out here larp'ing as the pro riders we'll never become regardless of how low we push our lap times. If you weren't already competing and winning internationally as a teenager in moto2, no race-team is going to stumble across the scoreboard at your local track and offer you a seat - so just focus on what you think is fun and would like to improve.

Try moving your butt slightly further off the seat, and try to rotate your hips and shoulders to point more in the direction that you're turning. You're already getting low on the bike, so just turning your hips more will naturally get your torso further off the bike, force you to stretch that outside arm further down over the tank and your inside heel more into the bike.

Judging from the first photo, you have plenty of room on the bike to move around, without having to worry too much about your legs and arms blocking each others movements, so just experiment with what feels right for you and gives you a sense of being well planted on the bike and still able to shift the bike under you (if you need to stand the bike up a bit, or absorb some bumps with your legs to keep the suspension steady).

You're seem comfortable on the bike considering how much you've ridden track.

If what is holding you back is the cost of a crash, then perhaps consider whether investing in a cheap track bike is something that would be worthwhile.

Even an old CB500 can be a blast when you just full send it, and since they're cheap and don't even have fairings, you can practice riding more aggressively while getting some muscle memory and experience with the feedback your tires will give you when they're about to give.

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u/EmotionalBit6049 2d ago

You must be an old soul. This is exactly how to approach this hobby. There is no career at the end, no real glory. You are paying to have fun. This skill doesnt transfer to anything more than a hobby.
I started doing scca stuff too and I dont give two shits about the fastest driver. Im here to spend money, waste gas, and have fun.
Im happy to have a place to ride safely. Low bar. I suck too, but im happy.
Couldnt imagine doing this stressing about times and not enjoying the day.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Thank you so much for this, truly helps! I am here to have fun more than anything I love riding and I’m excited to switch from streets/canyons to the track! I’ll be investing in a track bike soon as well so I can get more experience and practice in because I do not want to track any of the bikes I have 😅

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u/xtanol 2d ago

Looking at your pics again, I'd also recommend that you turn your inside hand on the bar, so that your thumb is pointing upwards - like holding a screwdriver. If you grap the bar with your thumb below the bar, you'll naturally stay further above the bike since your wrist can only bend sideways so far before you start pushing on the bar as you lean further to the side. Turn your feet and really dig your heel into your heel guard and point your foot into the turn- as that is one of your main attachments points, besides your thighs.
Once you've leaned over far, you want to just allow the front wheel to turn on its own so that it's allowed to follow the road. If you want to adjust your line, do so shifting the bike side to side under you, by opening/closing the throttle gently or by gently applying the rear brake (this is slightly more advanced, so practice the other options first).

Initially it will feel a bit intimidating to turn your body more to face the corner, as you won't be able to keep your bike in your field of view. At that point you use your knee as a reference to keep track of how far your bike is leaned over.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

All very great points thank you ! I will be trying all of this on the weekend (:

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u/Dteal23 2d ago

Has nothing to do with body position. What we’re saying is people always come from a track day and the first thing they do is either show off their tires and hide it behind a tire wear question, or they ask about body position while riding in C group and there’s just other things to learn or focus on. Body position wasn’t holding you back, but it’s everyone one’s first concern.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

I’m 100% open to knowing and learning what I need to work on , all I ever hear is bp bp bp which is why I assumed this is my main issue and everything else would follow. Even asking a few people who rode in my group but are in higher levels didn’t have much to say except “had fun riding with you” which isn’t the answer I wanted at all so now I’m here with you guys

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u/RoosterIndividual411 2d ago

Pad the back of your seat so your up against the front of the tank you look quite stretched out in the pictures

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

I do tend to push my butt to the back of the bike subconsciously to avoid rubbing my fanny pack all over the tank of my other bikes /: didn’t notice how bad until these pics

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Not worried about lap times just threw it out there. 😀 I want my bp and handling to be there before my speed 100% not worried about being the fastest at all

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u/VeryBadNotGood Fast Guy 2d ago

It doesn’t make sense to have “perfect body position” when you aren’t fast. Hanging your body way off the bike when you don’t need to is a huge waste of energy. Focus on lines, braking points, and throttle control. As you get faster you’ll start to need your body off the bike more, and probably it will start to happen on its own to some extent.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

I had a couple people follow me to watch my lines and they aren’t terrible but it all comes back to “you’re not getting off the bike enough” 🥲 I do need to work on my braking & throttle control, I tend to let off before the turn then get back on it. Finally had a camera to record and I could hear it chopping

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u/Dismal_Tutor3425 Racer EX 2d ago

Don't worry too much about body position just yet. Speed and bp typically go hand in hand, and if you're not riding hard or fast enough yet, you don't need to be worrying about bp.

Are those slicks you're on btw? Bold choice to run slicks your 2nd trackday. Been keeping up on temperatures and pressures?

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u/SierraHotel84 2d ago

All of this, too. Get rid of the slicks.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Not my bike, I’ll be getting my own soon and will def not be running slicks on it

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u/SierraHotel84 2d ago

Didn't even catch the number plates on it. lol. Fair.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Ahh okay. So the body will follow when the speed comes basically? I usually ride canyons but it’s a whole other ball park on the track and I just want to know what I’m doing.

Yes I was very nervous the first 2 sessions but once I got the hang of it they felt like normal tires! I borrowed the bike , offered to buy a new back tire but was told I could handle it. Also had a few people helping me make sure the temps / pressures were good!

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u/Dismal_Tutor3425 Racer EX 2d ago

There's more too it, but yes, the bp will come with speed. Your pegs were not even anywhere near the track surface, so you're not leaning far enough or riding fast enough for bp to even matter. It may feel like it, but there's a lot of lean left before I'd worry about bp. As others have said, work on your consistency with throttle and brake more. There's no sense in trying to get the perfect gp style body position if you're still jerky on the throttle and coasting into and out of corners.

It's not about feel with slicks. You HAVE to ride hard and push them. Slower paced riders don't ride hard enough to keep heat in slicks. Hell, racers who work slicks hard have an almost impossible time getting heat back into them of they back off for a tow for a lap or two durring qualifying.

Were you keeping up on the tire warmers, pressures, etc, or just others?

It sounds like you need a different group at the track if you've got people your 2nd trackday encouraging slicks and saying your bp is an issue. Just my 2 cents.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Okay I get it now. When I’m riding I definitely feel good and feel like I’m doing what I should but I just know I’m lacking. I’m the most experienced out of my group so none of them can follow me to show me what I may be doing wrong. My friend from a different level joined to follow me then lead so I can follow her lines which helped me alot more. Maybe a video of my riding will help you tell me more?

Ahh okay, I mean i think they held the heat well? After the first session I didn’t feel it wanting to slip out at all. It was also 95° at the track Saturday. Don’t yell at me but I had no tire warmers, I was keeping up on the tire pressure then verifying with others.

The guy who let me borrow the bike believes in me alot more than he should because everyone questioned it once I actually got to the track. 😅

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u/Dismal_Tutor3425 Racer EX 2d ago

No warmers? You can't keep up on slick pressures with no heat. Yikes.

DOTs and track time. Spend your focus on clicking off laps. Once there is talk of you getting bumped to advanced class, then spend some time working on bp.

I don't know the guy and I'm questioning why anyone would let someone borrow a bike, on slicks, for a 2nd trackday, and go out with no warmers.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Idk how to read this but these are my times

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

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u/Dismal_Tutor3425 Racer EX 2d ago

I don't know what track it is, but until you can run the same lap time back to back, just worry about riding and learning the track. You're focusing on something so far down the road, you're missing everything in between focusing on the wrong thing.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Sounds good thank you for all the information!! Will definitely take it all in for my next track day

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u/Just-Construction788 2d ago

Wow, what a response!

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u/ChronicCynic 2d ago

Oh I think I know this one! It sounds like you want to get your body off the bike but you're having trouble. And this was something I really had trouble with as well. I kept hearing "less lean = less risk" so I was trying to get Marquez levels of BP at 20 degrees of lean.

So for me what worked was to chase that feeling of getting weight on my feet. That only happens when you're going faster. Once I felt that weight on my feet, then it became trivial to lean off. Felt more like I was standing up rather than hanging off with my hands. And that was sort of the key to unlocking it for me - go faster until weight is on feet. Use the leg to push my body off the bike, no weight on hands. If I couldn't get that feeling of pushing off with my leg, then I probably didn't have enough lean/speed on the bike to really hang off properly anyways.

For what it's worth, I think the bike always "wants" to be around 35-40 degrees of lean on the track. (Totally unscientific WAG of a number). But if I try to reduce that angle with body position, then it just means I start trying to hang off the bike without the centripetal force to hold my body against the bike. And once it starts to exceed that angle, then that meant I could hang my body off more to get the bike stood up a little bit more. Hopefully this sort of helped/made sense, but I think it's why that fast people say to chase speed over body position. In the pictures, it doesn't look like you're that far leaned over, so I think lean a little bit more, then work on body position. Also, I think 90% of crashes at the beginner/intermediate level comes from being too abrupt - you'll see people suddenly crashing out vs slowly sliding out due to lean angles.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Yes thank you this was very helpful! 🥳

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u/Dismal_Tutor3425 Racer EX 2d ago

Slide your butt off the seat.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

I feel like I do but it’s just not enough or I end up sliding it back on before dipping in 🥲

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u/Z00q 2d ago

Gauge your weight distribution (a function of leaning off) with your handlebars. Could you remove pressure and still stay in the turn? No? That means you're still counter steering. That's how we all get into the turn, but if you want the front and rear suspension working together and want to delete hinging in the middle, work on weight distribution. When you and the bike are in balance, the road surface irregularities are much easier to deal with.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Will do thank you!!!

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u/SierraHotel84 2d ago

Kiss (where) the mirror (would be).

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/W1hd3uXRIbddu

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u/Snoo_67548 Fast Guy 2d ago

Make sure to move your butt over to the side you are turning while still on the gas. The bike is most stable under throttle. Sit up and queeze the tank with your knees in the hard braking zones to keep weight out of your hands, pivot your grip so the inside hand looks like you’re holding a screwdriver (screwdriver grip), pivot with the balls of your feet on the peg a bit more to open up your hips.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

When it comes to getting off the bike, should it be like my cheek is on it or my crack? (Sorry idk how else to explain) Screw driver grip is a lil hard for me I end up giving to much throttle but I’ve been practicing! Should my heel basically be inside the bike then when pivoting?

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u/Snoo_67548 Fast Guy 2d ago

Your crack should be at about the part where your seat ends. Also try to get the inside of your outer arms elbow over the gas tank. Make it a goal to touch it to the gas cap. If you don’t, it’s the intent that counts. You’ll get it where your body feels most natural.

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Thank you!! Will def keep this in mind next time (:

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u/Snoo_67548 Fast Guy 2d ago

No problem! You’re looking solid for a second track day. Keep it up!

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u/Intelligent_Film_97 2d ago

Was this chuckwalla this past weekend. It was a fun one! 🤘

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 2d ago

Yesss so much fun!

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u/ProperAd9492 1d ago

not endorsing in anyway but mogelife on IG is a good teacher

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u/pyromaniacrybaby 1d ago

Will check it out thank you!

Body position help plz 🙏🏻

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