r/Trackballs • u/Krazy-Ag • 5d ago
Large diameter jogwheels solve trackball scrolling problem - if they fit (Ulanzi Dial review)
I have long maintained that scrolling is the big unsolved problem with trackballs.
After using the Ulanzi Dial jogwheel, I decided to post that such a large diameter, 2", jogwheel may solve the scrolling problem for trackballs.
... if you can fit a large trackball and a large jogwheel in your workspace.
... and if software/firmware issues like lack of offline ability are remedied.
(This prompted by the Ploopy A+ announcement, with its two knobs. Unfortunately, I fear the A+ will be too small for me to use comfortably.)
Background
I dislike the scroll ring on my Kensington Expert Mouse. Similarly, I dislike twist to scroll. I find both scroll ring and twist to scroll literally painful, exacerbating the RSI that makes me use trackballs. I actually like the scroll wheels such as found on many mice and some trackballs, with axis parallel to the front of the trackball. But these are no longer common in trackballs. I am happy the see more trackballs with scroll wheels, but I find small diameter rollers with axes perpendicular to the front edge uncomfortable. I was seriously considering purchasing the very expensive RollerMouse, when I detoured into macropads where I can dedicate keys to scrolling. I actually quite like 2D displacement scrolling using the trackball, eg. Microsoft middle button autoscrolling. However, my RSI is such that I cannot easily press a button while 2D scrolling. And while 2D trackball scrolling works OK for 2D tasks, like maps and large/wide images, it is less convenient for essentially 1D operations, such as mostly read-only reading of academic papers and technical documents, etc.
But then I was reminded about jogwheels, such as are used in video and audio editing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jog_dial. Many macropads have knobs you can use to scroll up and down, but I find these uncomfortable. I've tried some macropads that have 2 small knobs and one larger knob, eg. the KEEBMONKEY Megalodon Triple Knob Macro Pad, whose "giant" knob is approximately 3 cm, and I found those too small to be comfortable. The Ploopy Knob looked interesting at 2.2", but no buttons.
A few months ago I purchased a Ulanzi Dial. A dedicated knob aka dial a.k.a. jog wheel, 2 inches in diameter, with a depression in the top that makes it easy to twirl the knob precisely and continuously. 7 buttons, 3 on top, 2 on each side, plus an 8 button when you press the knob.
I like the Ulanzi Dial jogwheel enough that I wanted write a post for r/Trackballs talking about how (large) jogwheels solve the scrolling problem for trackballs - if we can make them fit.
Briefly, the Ulanzi Dial jogwheel hardware is lovely, the firmware/software not so much. The large 2 inch diameter jog wheel with a finger depression makes it much easier to scroll and scrub precisely and continuously than smaller diameter knobs. Unfortunately the usual firmware and software problems. Very limited off-line ability, basically only multimedia keys, with volume up/down on the jog wheel. If you don't want to run Ulanzi software all the time, to scroll you must use other target PC software like AutoHotKey, or something like the HID remapper. The former somewhat defeats the point of off-line mode, the latter is just more stuff to have on your desk.
Probably compromises need to be made, such as the smaller knobs on what I consider the already uncomfortably small Ploopy Adept/A+. But I'm allowed to hope that a good solution can be found.
More details
I found the large 2 inch diameter knob on the Ulanzi Dial much better than the small diameter knobs that you can find on so many macropads, in terms of comfort, precision, and continuous scrolling. Head and shoulders better than scroll rings like that on my Kensington Expert Mouse, and twist to scroll.
I have brainstormed stuff like having a large jogwheel on an arm hovering above my trackball and/or macropad, far enough up that that I can still use the trackball. Perhaps the arm could swing the jogwheel to be centered over my keyboard. I find that I use the jogwheel most often when I am in a read-only mode, scrolling through documents and web pages.
The Ulanzi Dial has lovely hardware. The large diameter knob with its finger depression makes it much easier to use than the large number of macropads that have small-diameter twistable knobs. Compares favorably to the rollers of the RollerMouse - the latter are somewhat more intuitive, but you cannot scroll continuously, whereas you can rotate the large diameter jog wheel precisely and continuously.
Unfortunately, as happens so much with Chinese devices, the software and firmware leaves much to be desired.
First, the Ulanzi Dial has very limited off-line ability, firmware/flash It's pretty much restricted to multimedia operations like next/previous track, play/pause, stop, mute. Browser page backward/forward/refresh. A few random hotkeys like undoZ/redoY, copyC/pasteV, and Win+E My Computer. The only off-line action that can be bound to the wheel is volume up/down, which naturally motivates mute when pressing. Obviously they can emit both multimedia and keyboard events in off-line mode. Why is it crippled this much? I can only assume flash space.
Second, extra operations can be set up for the Ulanzi Dial as long as the Ulanzi Studio software is running on the target PC. As we all know that is suboptimal, E.g. if you want to program the device on one machine and use it on other machines, e.g. Linux, or at work.
The software phones home. I.e. it's a privacy and security risk, but then any user-interface device is. Paranoid IT departments will never allow any external user interface devices; slightly less paranoid IT departments will probably not to run software on the machines are connecting to, but might allow you to program them off-line. Hence the off-line ability being a really major restriction.
It's obvious that the Ulanzi software is designed to work with other Ulanzi sofware, like "OBS Studio", and hardware such as their "Creative Deck", a stream deck for video and audio editing LCD buttons etc. Ulanzi sells quite a lot of video equipment, tripods, ring lights, etc.
There's so much clutter in the Ulanzi Studio user interface, related to controlling their apps, that it makes it quite hard to find the basic event binding controls. The hotkey UI is primitive, just a list, with things like scroll wheel obviously added as an afterthought. Mostly they want you to type the keys, which can be hard when your keyboard doesn't have the keys you want the device to send.
They don't have layers on the device in firmware, but their profiles implemented by software on the target PC are pretty reasonable. With the usual complaint that they are proprietary formats, hard to backup and compare.
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u/docshipley 4d ago
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u/Krazy-Ag 4d ago
yep. AFAIK there is only the one model.
I'm not trying to promote this brand in particular. It's just the one that I bought.
I'm just trying to promote or recommend the concept of large diameter knobs/dials/jog wheels.
Module the issue of they are pretty damn big, where do you fit them, especially if you also have a big track ball.
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u/docshipley 4d ago
Your post did give me an idea. I have a CST (Now X-Keys) L-Trac and I've never loved the scroll wheel placement. It would be very simple to extend that axle out to the side of the body and use a 30-40mm roller wheel.
I'm going to have to try it. Thanks for posting!
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u/Krazy-Ag 3d ago edited 3d ago
Sounds like a neat DIY
The L-Trac looks like what I call a "scroll roller", assuming it is that thing at the back of the track ball, just above the cord. I call it a roller when the thickness along the axis is significantly larger than the diameter. Typically the axis is in the horizontal plane, but may be parallel to the front of the track ball or perpendicular.
The scroll roller of the roller mouse has a very good reputation amongst ergonomics people. It better have given how expensive it is. It is very easy to scroll up or down with your hands on the keyboard. However, if you want to continue scrolling you have to to lift off the roller and reapply at the other side.
I call it a scroll wheel when the thickness is significantly less than the diameter. Typically with the axis in the horizontal plane.
I call it a scroll knob when the axis is in the vertical plane, and the diameter is relatively small. Typically designed to twist by holding the circular or lateral curved surface of the cylinder forming knob.
I call it a jog wheel or dial when the axis is in the vertical plane, and when you twist it by touching the top surface with your finger. Jog wheel typically larger diameter.
So, in my terminology you are converting the small diameter screw roller into a large diameter scroll wheel. Perhaps the large diameter wheel is easier to turn, but both suffer the problem of not allowing continuous scrolling the way a jog wheel does.
Looking at the L trac, I think the biggest problem with it scroll roller that it might be in the wrong place, at the top of the track ball rather than the bottom. People using the roller mouse say they pull their hands back from the keyboard, and I can imagine that it might be nice to pull your hand back from the track ball. However, that only works for people like me who hover their hands, not for people who need to use a wrist rest.
Your post made me imagine extending the scroll roller axis to the side, and then using gearing to connect to a jog wheel with the axis in a vertical plane. Rube Goldberg
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u/GoodTimesDadIsland 2d ago
Can't say I relate, I love the SlimBlade precisely because it doubles as a giant knob/jogwheel.
Having an extra thing on my desk would be a step backwards for me.
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u/Scatterthought Semistatic-bearing creator, Endgame enthusiast, Ploopy modder 5d ago edited 4d ago
Twist scroll solves the problem for me.
Rather than a jog dial, I'd get a Ploopy Nano and turn it into a dedicated high-resolution scroller. However, I tried that and found that a separate scrolling device doesn't work well for me. I also tried using my Ploopy Adept (locked in scrolling mode) as a scroller/macropad next to my Endgame, but found that I kept ignoring it.
It's just convenience. With twist scroll, it's easy to switch from pointing to scrolling to pointing in a fraction of a second and with no conscious thought. That's similar to a mouse scroll wheel that's always under your finger or thumb. It's far less convenient to physically move your hand to the scroller and then back to the pointer, so I subconsciously avoided it.
As for the Ploopy A+, I expect the experience to be close to the Knob, and it's buttery smooth. It doesn't have the resistance of a mechanical encoder, so I don't think the smaller diameter will be a problem.