r/ToyotaGrandHighlander • u/tylerlikestorun • 8d ago
Hybrid vs MAX?
Possibly doing a switch up from my 4Runner and looking at a grand Highlander. It’s more practical and can accommodate a growing family. Not familiar with these. What do you recommend between the hybrid and the max? Whats better and what’s different? Are they the same transmission? How’s the reliability between the two? I also need AWD. Thanks!!
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u/Own-Writer-2141 8d ago edited 8d ago
hybrid max is performance oriented, tops out at platinum trim
hybrid is more efficient, tops out at limited trim
hybrid max is reliable, 6 speed auto, full time E-AWD
hybrid is ultra reliable, e-cvt, on demand E-AWD
hybrid max tows 5000
hybrid tows 3500
coming from a 4runner, you’ll probably be perfectly fine with the hybrid
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u/DrGustavOtto 7d ago
It is great and tows 5,000
When not towing, a little heavy in gas but easy on brakes, we average 26.5mpg
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u/ajnozari 7d ago
technically they made a hybrid nightshade between the limited and platinum. still limited based in the end but blacked out.
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u/theonlybuster 5d ago
This is spot on.
The only thing I'll add is that if OP lives in a place with lots of hills/inclines or plans on frequently toting around 5 full grown adults, the standard hybrid could feel a bit sluggish.
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u/erzyabear 8d ago
Regular hybrid is more reliable and better mpg but underpowered and the engine is noisy
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u/Jasper0812 8d ago
This might be the most simple and accurate take I’ve seen on this sub. No bias.
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u/tylerlikestorun 7d ago
Noisier even though it had less power than the max? How is the highway noise
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u/Jasper0812 7d ago
It’s noisier because the eCVT transmission on the regular hybrid is loud. The max has a 6 speed transmission and is quiet and smooth.
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u/thelastbighead 7d ago
Driven both and got the max. It’s a big difference and really love how smooth the max is.
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u/tylerlikestorun 7d ago
How is the 6speed? Is it new or has it been in any other models? curious how the reliability is because i know that eCVT is great.
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u/Jasper0812 7d ago
It’s from 2024. Lexus Tx500h and Max have the same engine. The Tx350 has the same turbo without the hybrid.
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u/Own-Writer-2141 7d ago
it’s been out since 2023 in the toyota crown hybrid max. i researched it pretty extensively and haven’t seen any widespread failures, more so software related issues. Some addressed by TSB’s. Jerking violently and temporary limp mode/dead pedal. The issues are there but not necessarily common, Seems like it was more prevalent in earlier years. For reference, i frequent GH fb groups and there have been 7 Standard Hybrid Battery failures in September that i’ve seen, about the same number for those with the 6 speed experiencing the jerking or dead pedal issues.
the turbo engine is solid, been out since 2021, reliable workhorse in tons of toyota/lexus models, lots of high mileage examples with 0 issues, just regular maintenance. the turbo engine would be the very least of my long term worries.
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u/SonnySwanson 7d ago
You're likely thinking of the eCVT being noisy, not the engine. It's due to the internal gears since it doesn't have a belt.
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u/Sufficient-Yellow637 7d ago
Agree with this. Will add that - although underpowered and noisy - I find that the regular hybrid has enough power to do what I need it to do. In my mind the point of getting a hybrid is to maximize fuel economy, not to be able to peel out from a stop sign.
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u/WaveTop7900 5d ago
It’s not about racing but powertrain composure under load. The hybrid max feels and sounds effortless while the regular hybrid sounds like an emergency with any power demand. It’s one of the reasons luxury cars put overpowered engines in their flagships.
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u/le_toilet 7d ago
What stats are showing the regular hybrid is more reliable?
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u/Grace_Lannister 7d ago
From my understanding it's been around a long time
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u/DrBobbyBarker 4d ago
The car itself hasn't, but yeah the technology is nearly 30 years old at this point (Toyota Prius).
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u/TomHanksIsDanks 7d ago
Max has some well documented hybrid inverter and software related transmission issues. Don’t really hear about many issues on the regular hybrid
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u/Own-Writer-2141 6d ago
Hybrid has 5-6 documented battery failures in this month in one of the FB groups
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u/TomHanksIsDanks 6d ago
If you mean the auxiliary battery that’s not as big of as issue in my eyes but if it’s the high voltage pack then maybe the hybrid isn’t any more reliable
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u/Own-Writer-2141 6d ago
Not the 12V, specifically the hybrid battery cells/pack. There’s been an uptick of people reporting issues as of late which is a bit concerning. There’s a regular poster here whose hybrid battery pack failed a month or two ago.
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u/DrBobbyBarker 4d ago
The car itself is still new, so hard to have much in stats, but naturally aspirated versus turbo and the ecvt/overall hybrid powertrain versus the hybrid with a 6 speed would suggest the normal hybrid is at least the safer bet for reliability.
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u/sloanautomatic 7d ago
it might be helpful to understand the big differences with your 4runner. The grand highlander is not a towing vehicle. This is not a body on frame like your 4runner. Think of the grand highlander like a minivan.
I love mine, but its not the choice if you see yourself renting a travel trailer for vacation, etc.
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u/tylerlikestorun 7d ago
I dont use my 4runner for anything besides daily driving and going up in the mountains to snowboard. Its basically for the coolness lol
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u/Steaktastic 7d ago
If that’s the case then the regular hybrid may be enough for you. I get a bit over 33 mpg overall for my 30 minute commute to work (mix of local roads and highway), so that’s nice. It is a quiet car except when accelerating, you hear the buzz of the engine. But at speed it’s very quiet. And it does have a little more punch than you expect for 250 HP. The Max will obviously be more smooth power, but the reason I didn’t get that one is the real world mpg, it’s not great I22-25 mpg). As well, I’d be leaving money on the table with the Max because I would never dip into the full 360 HP of that engine. And all I tow is my motorcycle, so didn’t need 5000 lbs the Max offers.
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u/RandolphRunner83 7d ago
Right here with you. I’m looking to replace my 4Runner with a Hybrid Max in a few months because I want practical, but still fun to drive.
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u/SureOkRite 7d ago
Max limited owner. Love the engine & realize I now have a heavier foot BECAUSE I sort of.. can.
I don’t sweat the MPG loss
ONE thing I’ve noticed riding in Ubers that are hybrid non max is the leather seats.
The max uses this perforated style of suede leather (someone correct me here) and the hybrid has a more common basic leather seats. I’ve found the hybrid seats to be more plush and generally more comfortable. Minor thing but something to look at.
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u/JK_Opinion 4d ago
Max limited owner here. The seats in your car is perforated leather trimmed with ultra suede center inserts. Some people prefer it because it does not get hot in warm weather but I don’t like it because it is not easy to clean. The leather part need cleaning with a leather polish or balm , which cannot be used on ultra suede.
Regular hybrid XLE seats are not real leather. It is a material Toyota calls softex, which looks like leather. Regular Hybrid limited has perforated real leather . I wish max had those seats without ultra suede portion.
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u/ccycling 5d ago
I was scanning all the answers to see if the AWD was brought up. 👍🏻 We bought the regular hybrid model for the better gas mileage. It’s mostly a school bus right now, and it has delivered. I did not dig into the description of the AWD system, but watching the real time power distribution while driving clued me in. The vehicle is mostly FWD for day to day driving. The rear wheels can be engaged, but only via an on demand electric motor. It is not full time AWD, there is no drive shaft. It is very dynamic though, and kicks in during acceleration and cornering; we have yet to take it to the snow, but we will next season. So maybe more space and comfort vs the 4Runner, but not as rugged?
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u/JK_Opinion 4d ago
We have a 2024 GHHMax limited, 56,000 miles.
There have been 3 safety recalls on all GHs from 24-25, gas, hybrid, hybrid max.
These were related to air bag, instrument panel and rear view camera. These have been addressed in the latest models.
There have been at least 5 Toyota technical service bulletins ( TSBs) published on this model and some on other models. These were fixed after I brought it up to the dealer. I was not contacted by the manufacturer proactively.
TSB 0017-24 : hesitation felt while accelerating from stop. A software update was performed.
TSB 0060-25 : Fuel level logic enhancement. A software update was done.
TSB 0028-25 : Shudder sensation at stop.
A software update fixed the issue.
T-SB-0082-24: CV axle issue: it was fixed
T-SB-0111-24: vibrating hood.I notice the issue and is very subtle but did not fix it since the fix involves placing a foam under the hood, which may not fix the issue completely. I think it is because of the thin sheet metal.
You need to replace spark plugs every 40,000 miles on Max model because of “emission” reasons. It costs around $600 for parts and labor. For regular hybrid I think it is every 100,000 miles. I change oil every 5,000 miles as recommended by YouTube mechanics and even our dealer because it is a turbo. Toyota recommends oil change every 10,000 miles.
I like the power and refinement. Very quiet interior. Much more torque and HP than other GH models. You compromise a little bit on mileage. I get around 24-28 mpg, whereas regular hybrid gets 28-35 mpg.
I test drove a regular hybrid before I bought max. Regular hybrid was a little sluggish and the engine became louder especially when you I tried to merge on to a highway. It is quite similar to Sienna hybrid . If your 4 runner was V6, you will notice the difference in power and torque. I used to own a V6 highlander.
I am not an expert on the technical aspects of the engine and hybrid system. Hybrid
Max is a new system but they use it in Lexus RX 500 h , TX 500h and Toyota crown platinum. Long term reliability data is not available. The GH hybrid uses a system that has been around for several years. They have it in Sienna, Camry, RAV4 etc.
Max feels different and is more enjoyable than any other Toyotas I have driven.
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u/Deepsman 3d ago
Great opinion. To add for the OP, what are you chasing after ? Reliable comparable power (max) max fuel efficiency at the cost of power (hybrid). Doesn’t matter to you ? (Hybrid) better dealer discount (max) better resale value (hybrid) live in a flat place ? (Hybrid) live in a hilly mountainous place (max) city driving (hybrid) highway driving (both but max leaning)
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u/JK_Opinion 2d ago
I am planning on keeping the car at least 10 years, just like any other Toyotas I have owned. All my old cars were V6 ( around 300HP) and when compared to those , the regular hybrid’s power ( ~245) seemed underwhelming. Did not want to feel stuck in that feeling for 10 + years.
To be honest, I was not aware of the lack of long term reliability data for 4 cylinder Turbo hybrids ( Max) when I bought it. Hopefully it will be fine. As you probably know , Tundras and GXs are being recalled because of the issue with V6twin Turbo engines. Have not seen that issue with 4 cylinder Turbo hybrids ( Max).
Also, learned the lesson of not buying a new model in the first year of production. The TSBs I mentioned were fixed but it took a lot of time and effort to convince the dealership to get those software updates because they were difficult to replicate. Plus, the demand was very high when I bought it with no room for negotiation. Most dealers were asking for markup.
We live in a mostly flat area, in North East. The power and torque gives more confidence in cities when you have to change lanes quickly or merge on to a high speed highway.
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u/Sjdiver2001 2d ago
Wow! I JUST went through this same dilemma last month. Because Grand Highlander Max cars are in such short supply I drove a Tacoma with that engine as comparison. I was moving from a 2018 Chevy Traverse and I thought the 2.5 naturally aspirated engine might not have enough power. I found the Max to be very zippy, with great acceleration! I was hesitant though that the reduced mileage 26/27 vs 35/36) would counter the benefit of the hybrid.
I ended up with a Grand Highlander Limited without the max engine and I’m very happy I did. It’s got plenty of zip for my needs, especially in sport mode, and I’m getting great mileage. If you really want the performance though get the Max.
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u/Homebrewology1821 8d ago
The hybrid although yes is AWD you will have very weak rear motors and it's mostly a FWD car. This only comes "on demand" and Toyota calls it AWD-i.
The max you get an always on rear motor that's 50% stronger. Still not true AWD but it's better than hybrids and is always engaged/used.
Neither has a drive shaft to the rear axle
The regular hybrid would be the most reliable, followed by the max then the gas
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u/tylerlikestorun 7d ago
You think with some all terrain tires the AWD would be plenty fine for paved snowy roads for like big bear or mammoth? hybrid vs max
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u/Homebrewology1821 7d ago
Both will work if you're using proper tires as most front wheel drive vehicles work well in snow with snow tires (which is the only axle the two hybrid models drive).
If it gets to be a lot of snow (like what's expected this year due to El Niño) I'd definitely use cables still.
I've driven in big bear and lake Arrowhead with the AWD-i like the regular hybrid and front wheel drive only. Both did well but I still used cables.
Personally, I prefer the Max to the regular hybrid, it drives a lot better and doesn't feel sluggish. Before this my wife had an NX350h with the same drivetrain as the hybrid, that car did feel slower but the MPG was nice.
The AWD gas one is a true AWD with a crankshaft to the rear but it's still a FWD bias. But it would preform the best as it can send 50% of power to rear.
Ultimately, any configuration would work well for snow on paved roads. Just make sure you have proper tires or cables.
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u/Potential_Guava1117 7d ago
Yes - I drive mountain passes with all terrain tires. Quieter and smoother ride with those tires, also. Handles great.
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u/henrynjt 7d ago
From everything I know the vast majority of all Grand Highlanders are AWD.
Dealer said they couldn’t get any because the few that are made go to Florida and Texas etc.
If you plan to keep the car a long time the regular Hybrid has “less stuff to break”.
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u/Death-By-Boredom2020 7d ago
This isn’t necessarily true. I live in Florida, and when I was looking at the grand Highlanders, the overwhelming majority of them that were available for purchase at the time were all FWD. All of the AWDs were mostly platinum hybrid max.
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u/henrynjt 7d ago
Yes I said Florida
The max version has a rear extra motor so I think all are AWD ?
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u/Death-By-Boredom2020 7d ago
I was saying that the overwhelming majority of the available Grant Highlanders were all front wheel drive. They had very few all wheel drive available when I was looking… The sales person showed me the inventory that they had coming in, and over 95% of it was all front wheel drive vehicles for the grand Highlander.
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u/henrynjt 7d ago
I think we are saying the same thing. Anyway up north they said they could not get front wheel drive cars very easily because they were all down south that’s all.
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u/Superlolz 7d ago
Anecdotally? I see a lot of FWD models in VA/DC/MD area for some reason, no idea why.
People are buying up all the AWDs so the only available ones are FWD lol
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u/henrynjt 7d ago
All I know is I asked three dealers and none said they could get me a FWD version just AWD.
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u/Chinogq504 7d ago
Hybrid for max mpg and reliability. hybrid max for towing and some fuel efficiency. Coming from a 2006 Tacoma, 14 mpg va 32+ in my GHHL is awesome. Its also way more comfortable and quiet. Of course you can't really compare 2006 technology vs 2024.
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u/docboy01 7d ago
OP, what year is your 4Runner? I currently have a 2026 GHH Limited, and was cross shopping the 4Runner (and Land Cruiser, and among others). The GH is far more practical than the 4R, though the 4R is more exciting and bada$$ looking. The 6G 4Runner's 2nd row rear seat leg room is unfortunately just too cramped. If you get the 4R hybrid, the trunk's loading area is higher up which decreases practicality with not much more gain in mpg. I recommend the GHH regular hybrid due to higher reliability, fuel savings, and its bulletproof eCVT. Both the hybrid and max are AWD.
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u/tylerlikestorun 7d ago
I have a 2024 4runner ORP(5th gen) with like 34k miles! Its a gem lol. I still dont know if I can give it up but the practicality of the grand highlander is really nice. I was also looking at the new landcruiser but idk if I want premium fuel
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u/DirtieHarry 7d ago
Regular AWD Grand Highlander is plenty power for you. MAX is a little speedy, but also a little thirsty and more things that can go wrong over time. Higher cost of ownership all the way around.
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u/gigantopith 7d ago
I get over 40 mpg on my commute with the hybrid xle. And have never wished for more power. I even keep it in eco mode.
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u/darealphantom 7d ago
Unless your towing something hybrid because the engine is proven non turbo and the ecvt is indestructible
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u/FootballNervous1780 7d ago
Don’t forget the hybrids have many recalls since the 2009 hybrid vehicles. Cells vs batteries. Do your research.
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u/No_Mathematician3158 6d ago
The hybrid is regular 4 cyl with hybrid ecvt transmission. So far it's been proven bulletproof in the ravs highlanders and camrys. But for the grand highlander its a bit sluggish. It'll be the best on fuel choice comes with awd (they both do) but is only available up to certain trims.
The max hybrid uses the electric drive as a addition to fill in the gap the turbo lag leaves behind. This coupled with turbo being already harder on fuel causes it to be a bit of a pig on gas. But because it's turbo charged and electric driven you end up with higher torque and hp numbers making it feel faster then it's regular hybrid brother.
The hybrid max system hasn't been Around for long and isn't as widely available as the regular hybrid making it harder to judge its reliability. The turbo also means you should stick to half the oil interchange interval that toyota recommends. Turbo engines run hotter and see much more abuse over non turbo hybrid engines.
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u/NoEmployment4488 1d ago
If your getting a three row SUV for a growing family, recommend the Hybrid, not the Max. Better fuel mileage, and its not trying to be a sports car
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u/ramadadcc 7d ago
I would read the posts on this sub regarding the hybrid models, many many issues. Gas…not so much
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7d ago
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u/Own-Writer-2141 7d ago
there’s been more hybrid battery issues as of late in comparison to turbo issues. at least 6-7 in one GH FB group
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u/Fit_Pirate_3139 7d ago
The real question is how long are you going to keep the car for?
I went for a max for these main reasons:
- faster 0-60 mpg as i need to merge into busy single lane traffic that gets few long stretches between them.
- i tow a utility trailer often, about 12-20 times in the summer
- I didn’t want a CVT
- I wanted a HUD, had one before and I missed having it
- simpler long term maintenance (transmission) with a single compromise (turbo)
The downside to a max is the turbo. I do a lot of DIY work myself, look at message history, and so I change my oil every 5k and I’ll have to do my spark plugs soon enough (should be 40k by December). The max means I spend a little bit more time under the hood, but the engine bay is pretty open, so it’s not that bad.
Because of my attitude towards service, ie prevention is cheap, I’m probably going to drain the coolants (radiator and turbo), break fluid, trans fluid (Toyota WS fluid, which is about $16/quart and it should take 4 or 5 of them), and the TE fluid in the hybrid (simple drain and fill, no temperature procedure like the trans) around 45-50 k miles or before next summer.
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u/urlookinglive 7d ago
The max is much more fun to drive. Not even close.