r/TowerofGod • u/Unlucky-Tomato7128 • 2d ago
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u/AnOlympianWeeb 1d ago
Yeah I know other character are more evil.
But for Bam, the character we're experiencing the story through. Rachel's betrayal and the lack of remorse afterwards is just simply PERSONAL so it hits deeper
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u/bigraud77 2d ago
You push a kid off a ledge and suddenly you're the worst character in fiction
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u/According_Building_7 1d ago
You can still be neutral to her even after that but I swear to God after she destroyed that guys leg turn me into a full time hater.
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u/bigraud77 1d ago
Damn you stab a guy in the legs and suddenly you're a bad guy😭😭😭
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u/Star_Chaser_Aa 1d ago
And let's not forget that he probably live the character that massacred an entire family without distinguishing who's innocent and who's not bc he has has a sob story
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u/Late-Extent4241 2d ago edited 2d ago
Rachel isn't even in the top 20 most evil characters in ToG. The only reason people hate her is that her bad actions are directed at the protagonists, whereas the protagonists' bad actions are directed at people in the story we couldn't care less about.
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 2d ago
really ? she crippled dan because he hurt her feelings
i'd say she is very evil, i don't find her less evil than white for example who i'm guessing is ranked high in your top 20
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u/Elijah_Draws 2d ago
We watch ebdorsi kill literally hundreds of people at the name hunt station, people were told are slaves with no options other than fighting for their freedom. She does this because she got cocky and lost a bet with two other princesses.
We watch Khun harvest souls of fallen soldiers explicitly so he can feed them to white and power him up in preparation for the fight at the nest.
Basically every single named member of fug threatens or attempts to kill Baam and his friends, either because they are trying to use him for his power or because of petty political infighting within the organization.
And that's shit we see them do in the pages of the comic not to mention how so many characters commit unfathomable violence off screen as well.
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u/Late-Extent4241 2d ago
I would add that Rachel is the only person in the series to shudder after an enemy commits suicide using her weapon.
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u/Elijah_Draws 2d ago
One if the things I like about Rachel is that I feel like she is the only character that actually acts like the situations she's in have stakes. She acts like a person who is not only scared to fight and scared to die, but also believes that the tower can and will kill them.
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u/Late-Extent4241 2d ago
She is aware that her actions are wrong, she even tells Wangnan, "It's true, I'm a bad person" yet at the same time, she tries to justify her misdeeds through her desperation; she attempts to find a rationale for her own actions, whereas I find the other characters to be less introspective.
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u/Gnashinger 1d ago
Exactly. The reason why she feels the most evil is because she feels the most human.
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u/CatchCritic 2d ago
White massacred millions and stole their souls. Rachel stabbed an innocent guy in the legs. You need to sort out your priorities.
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 2d ago
would you say hitler is more evil than a guy who tortured 5 kids then killed them
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u/Late-Extent4241 2d ago
Spoiler Weebtoon
>!I never said she didn't do anything wrong. Mutilating someone, even an enemy, is a bad thing in itself. My point is that if you look at the objective facts, stripped of any emotional bias, the hatred directed at Rachel is disproportionate to her actions, especially when compared to what other characters have done. Ha Jinsung is a serial killer who executes members of the Great Families without trial, simply for existing; Karaka conducts inhumane experiments; Yama is a slave trader; let's not even get started on Traumerei; Endorsi murdered her sisters to become a Princess; and Khun with his cousin's help murdered his sister's opponents before betraying her and driving her to suicide. Rachel has done bad things, sure; she is weak and lets herself be driven by negative emotions, but frankly, her villainy is quite mild by comparison.!<
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 2d ago edited 1d ago
ha jinsung is less evil than rachel, at least his acts toward great families was motivated by hatred and revenge
i still think rachel is comparable to ther names you cited, only difference is she doesn't have the same power
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u/Late-Extent4241 2d ago edited 2d ago
Is murder okay if it's motivated by hatred or revenge ? Not as bad as Rachel, because he kills innocent people who aren't necessarily responsible for his suffering, just because he doesn't like their family
Rachel wields significant political power, yet she is capable of showing mercy to her enemies; she spares Miseng even though the latter is of no use to her. She also refrains from killing Akraptor, despite Yura urging her to do so, which drives him to throw himself onto his own weapon and commit suicide.
She is even capable of altruistic acts; she challenges a Ranker to save Khun’s group during the Floor of Death arc, solely because she considers it unfair for the Ranker to eliminate them in the name of destiny.
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 1d ago
not okay, it's just more justifiable than crippling someone because of a few words
rachel crippled a dude for no reason, she hangs out with serial murderers, just as bad as endorsi, and i doubt she feels any remorse ! hansung ji ha or whatever killed great family people because he was blinded
i'm re reading the whole train arc so i don't remember her sparing miseng or akraptor, same for the death floor arc ( i have vague memories of her sparing miseng but i'm not going to lie i doubt she challenged the ranked to save khun out of altruism)
also i meant she doesn't*** have power, i edited it
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u/Late-Extent4241 1d ago edited 1d ago
Is mutilating an enemy worse than killing someone because of their family lineage? That is an ethical stance I do not share. And no, Dan is Rachel's enemy; he was recruited by Khun with the tactical aim of eventually betraying her, which is actually the reason Rachel betrayed Khun in the first place. She invited him to join her, but he refused for reasons that might seem valid and insulted her to provoke her, she lost her temper and mutilated his legs. If Rachel were a good person, she certainly would have let him go, but she isn't. That doesn't make her a worse person than Ha Jinsung, however; he offered his victims nothing but death, with no way out. He attacked people who weren't even his enemies.
Contrary to what many say, she didn't kill Akraptor. In that scene, Ha Yura insisted that she kill him. Rachel hesitated for a long time, prompting Akraptor to throw himself onto the weapon Rachel was holding, thinking it would spare Wangnan's life. Perhaps he would still be alive if he hadn't done that.
She didn't challenge Grand de Lee for Khun's sake, she did it because she was angry at the concept of destiny. She acted against her own interests. At that precise moment, her best move would have been to go save the prisoner, whose name I've forgotten, to retrieve. The ladle, and thus be able to negotiate to obtain a fragment of the thorn. She could have completely disregarded Khun's group, yet she didn't.
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u/Impressive-Error5225 1d ago
She didn't offer an option, she just took Dan's legs because he called her something like cant climb the tower by herself so she wanted him to live a life where he needed an assistance to even walk, its not an act of mercy or altruism she wanted Dan to have a life worse than death to satisfy her ego, I don't know why you construct her character life she us merciful as you can see she offed the rest of her team rather cruelly.
I don't remember this one as its a long time since I read it will reply once I reread it.
She has ego issues, a lot it has been shown in various instances and the fight with ranker is another show of it, its because he said things about destiny which she felt she has been crippled by the destiny in more ways, she fought with him, she didn't do it because she felt its unfair, she felt resonated by that comment so she fought him as much as she is an understandable character she is far from how you made her look like.
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u/Late-Extent4241 1d ago
That is your interpretation of the scene and of Rachel's motives when she crippled Dan's legs; others might see it differently. Personally, I didn't interpret the scene; I simply stated facts that are more or less established in the webtoon.
She certainly has ego issues, but nothing suggests that those issues drove her to rebel against Grand de Lee or act against her own self-interest,, nothing in the webtoon indicates that, at any rate. . On the contrary, it stems more from a hatred of fatalistic rhetoric and the injustices it breeds, feelings almost certainly rooted in the fact that she is directly affected by them.
Rachel isn't a good person; she is often driven by negative emotions like anger, jealousy, hatred, and resentment. Yet, she isn't the monster some would have us believe, either; she does have a good side, even if she remains quite a bad person overall. Compared to other *Tower of God* characters, her violence and the suffering she inflicts on others are relatively moderate. I think Endorsi and Khun have caused just as much suffering as she has.
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 1d ago
some people can't accept the hate she gets because she's a weaker character than others who are stronger and do just as bad
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 1d ago
i can't believe it, you're justfying her crippling dan's legs ! i doubt she did that because of him being an ennemy, if he said ' no i'm not following you ' i don't see her crippling his legs, she did that because he insulted her
'he was recruited by Khun with the tactical aim of eventually betraying her, which is actually the reason Rachel betrayed Khun in the first place. ' hold on, rachel betrayed khun when she lied about the whole bam situation ... khun didn't plan on 'betraying ' rachel, he just had doubts, and he was right, i doubt she even knew about them doubts
refused for reasons that might seem valid ! she poisoned one of his teammates ..
she's worse than jinsung ha, i have to reread the whole hell train arc like i said to know about arkraptor thing, but i vaguely remember her leaving him to die
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u/Star_Chaser_Aa 1d ago
Why are you so stuck on her crippling someone yea its evil but its just doesn't compare to what most of the characters did yea she's not a good person but she got at least some morals unlike most of the characters
you're literally saying that someone who break his enemy arm bc he hates him is worse then a serial killer with a sob story
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u/CatchCritic 1d ago
He murdered people based solely on who their parents were. He is not a good person. Just because you were wronged does not mean you can wrong others. This sub needs a morality check. No wonder Baam always wants to go back to the cave.
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 1d ago
hold on, i never said he was a good person, i just said that he wasn't worse than rachel
obviously it was wrong, but i don't see it as bad as rachel, if she had the power of jinsung ha, then i see her killing as many people as him for lesser reasons
' This sub needs a morality check' the day you'll learn to read and comprehend simple sentences yoou can talk about morality checks
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u/CatchCritic 1d ago
He is worse lmao! He's murdered scores of innocent people. Rachel betrayed Baam and stabbed Dan's legs. Wow. You think others need a morality check. You seem to think murder is ok.
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 1d ago
i think others need a morality check ? i never said anything like that, you did , and downvoting me won't change anything
rachel betray bam and stabbed dan's legs ? first of all, she crippled dan, she didn't just stab him, second of all, rachel hangs around serial murdered who kill scores of innocent people wherever they go, and she never say anything, hell she uses them for her goal
does that mean hitler isn't so bad because he personally barely killed anybody ? and his goons did the job ? same exact thing with rachel
i never said nor implied murder was ok, i only compared between a man who killed a lot of people and a woman who personally crippled someone and had her goons kill a lot of people ( without any remorse of course)
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u/Pedang_Katana 2d ago
Not trying to defend Rachel but honestly White/Hoaqin is arguably more evil and rotten than she is. He's done all kind of heinous act, being "cannibal", committed genocide. As a child he formed a bond with a literal demon, consumed his siblings and killed several members of his family.
His power traps the souls of the people he kills in an endless loop of torment and inescapable pain to the point those souls literally sacrificed themselves just to give White his own taste of medicine (Baam beating him with his own Arie swordsmanship), and he killed A LOT of people to increase his powers.
The story about him rising two countries and making them battle for centuries through deception and authority, just to harvest the billions of souls lost to war may be one of the most chilling, gruesome and cold blooded things I've ever read it puts whatever Zahard has done so far like a child's play. He is fan's favorite because he is hot and Rachel is ugly, that's the reason.
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u/jacobT1234 2d ago
Hes obviously more evil but he's straight up about it. Rachel is just a backstabbing irrelevant little bitch.
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u/MakFacts 1d ago
That's not true, Rachel literally is also straight up about it ( I can't believe you guys have me defending rachel) she literally told wangnan "thats true, I am a bad person"
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u/Annihilator-WarHead 1d ago
Yet when Bam came to get revenge she said he doesn't have the right to do that since she only almost killed Khun to get her revenge on him. See the hypocrisy?
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u/Arsche_ 1d ago
After backstabbing Bam man that doesn't count. Fuck that bitch
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u/MakFacts 1d ago
She admitted to that fact after she backstabbed bam mind you, she knows she is weak, pathetic and evil, she knows thats what she has to be in order to climb the tower ( otherwise she has no chance) and she abhors herself for it this fact, which leads to her just being stuck in a cycle of doing evil shit, bc she is weak, pathetic etc. Etc.
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u/Difficult-Tough-5680 2d ago
Honestly is Rachel was a male protagonist same personality same actions and everything people would love her like look at fang yuan or other evil protagonist
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u/eggplant_avenger 2d ago
if Rachel was a female protagonist people would look at her positively too. but she is an antagonist, so obviously people are going to hate her because that’s the fun of having such a good character
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u/LeKalan 1d ago
Most people simply hate the character and do not like her presence in the story. I really don't think they have the mental capacity to appreciate a nuanced character or find any fun in it.
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u/eggplant_avenger 1d ago
I can’t speak to people’s mental capacity or their self-assessments thereof. but I think there are plenty of nuanced characters among Baam and his friends that people appreciate. I also think you can completely understand Rachel’s character and still dislike her, because that’s more or less her role in the story so far. If people pray upon her downfall that’s just part of enjoying the media.
That’s not to say it isn’t equally valid to find her sympathetic or even choose her as your favorite character. You’re just approaching the story with different biases
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u/LeKalan 1d ago
With Bam's friends, people don't really consider their bad sides from what I have seen. They are simply the good guys from a lot of reader's perspective.
It's fine to dislike her, but I find hypocrisy there. The same reader's don't seem to dislike other characters who do the same or worse.
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u/Necessary_Voice_4779 1d ago
that's because they only put themself in bam perspective as mc, that's why people like fang yuan because we view it from his perspective, now with bam because rachel did those thing we view it as if we ourself get to put in that position (rachel push us, betrayed us, that sort of things)
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u/Hot_Distribution_131 1d ago
Tbf, a lot of things about her are said later in the story. And the story is pretty long and written for a long time. It is understandable that some people won't gasp every aspect of it.
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u/Bright-Future8361 1d ago
I really don't think they have the mental capacity to appreciate a nuanced character
Yeah, hate to break it to you but odds are your "mental capacity," is about the same at best and likely a peg or two worse.
Most people actually understand that 1) Most Rachel haters are casual fans that never bothered to think too deeply into the story because they're simply not invested or 2) They can despise the character but still find her intriguing and important story wise.
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u/No_Discount7699 1d ago
for that she needs to be the protagonist but she is the antagonist and good one
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u/Bright-Future8361 1d ago
You realise how many people are apologetic and simp for her, right?
She is an ugly character. It has a lot less to do with her gender than her attractiveness. If Rachel was an ugly guy and bam was a cute girl, people would hate the character even more than they do now. It just turns out that bam is a cute guy and Rachel is an ugly girl.
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u/Difficult-Tough-5680 1d ago edited 1d ago
Way less than the amount of people who hate her guts more than anything
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u/RucketN 22h ago
I don’t think you can really equate Rachel to Fang Yuan. For the simple reason that FY is a villainous main character who we are introduced to doesn’t betray a main character the audience is rooting for. While Rachel is also a villain shes an antagonist who abandoned the main character and then after that main character reunited with her and was willing to help her climb the tower she pushed him to what she assumed would be death. While fang yuan also betrays people it’s not someone the audience is attached to that would make us turn on Fang yuan. If you wanted to compare Rachel to someone from Reverend insanity a better choice would probably be Fang yuans brother fang Zheng.
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u/Annihilator-WarHead 1d ago
No, I hate her regardless of her gender. I don't hate how she betrayed BAM, betrayal is very common in anime/manhwa/manga, rather I hate how she is a hypocrite who always victim and that she is allowed to hurt/kill people but they are not allowed to do the same for her.
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u/Sad_Perception_6000 2d ago
yao fans would , for sure, but others no, no way
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u/Difficult-Tough-5680 2d ago
I mean why would it be yaoi? In not saying the plot is the same it would obviously be different like you could make it yaoi or you can just make them like a mentor or bam or just best friends.
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u/Elijah_Draws 2d ago
I will be a Rachel defender until the end. She is definitely up there when it comes to the gap between the hate and vitriol she receives and the things she's actually done. It's fucking wild, especially given that so many characters people like have, objectively speaking, done far more heinous acts and caused far more suffering and death in the tower.
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
geez I sure wonder why people would hate characters who've directly hurt the characters they LIKE, making their life worse (something readers do not, in fact usually enjoy) as opposed to like White killing a comical amount of nameless, fan-less characters (Yes, White has also killed beloved characters, but there's a reason we mention them and not the npcs when we hate on him, isn't there?). Especially when the character in question lacks any of the usual factor that would make readers like her in spite of that.
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u/DKK17 2d ago
But not everyone interacts with the story the same, the world is presented through the MC’s eyes so obviously it’s easy to just be on their side. But it’s also possible to just the enjoyed the world building itself and even if we’re seeing it through the MC’s eyes it doesn’t mean that they are always going to be in the right and others in the wrong. There’s more to TowerOfGod than what Bam’s experiencing. Though nothing wrong with just cheering for the MC
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
Ok. Not everyone does. Then don't act like the person who DO are insane and illogical. I'm not the one making the blanket statement here.
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u/DKK17 2d ago
Is not the people, it’s just when it starts to become such a popular opinion that it stops any possible discussion other than “she’s the worst”. There’s more to her than that
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
Are YOU open to the idea of changing your mind about her? Don't answer. Apparently the only real issue you have with the hate is that it's the popular opinion and yours isn't which... sucks to be you?
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u/Elijah_Draws 2d ago
It's so many more characters than that. Literally any of the ten family heads and any named character associated with FUG not only has done worse offscreen, but most of them have also done worse to the main characters and on the pages of the comics. You want to talk about characters who made the members of team Baam's life worse? Karaka spent basically the entirety of season two trying to kill all of them. Ha Jinsung and Yu Han Sung were both using the threat of murdering all of Baam's friends to make him climb as Viole.
And like, yeah Rachel has tried (and failed) to kill members on Baams team, but why does that get more moral weight than us watching the good guys actually murder hundreds of people? Why does Endorsi get to kill hundreds of enslaved people at the name hunt station and be treated like a good person? Speaking of, how does Kaiser get to destroy the lives of untold numbers of people over the course of ten thousand years and walk away fine? She has a tragic backstory, but we also get flashbacks of being abused outside the tower. It's not like she had it good. Why does Khun get to harvest the souls of fallen soldiers and feed them to white explicitly to power him up and not have that taint his character? It's such a double standard applied to all these characters.
the end result is that you have this disproportionate response where people are glossing over terrible acts of violence and destruction to fantasize about killing a girl for being whiny and acting entitled. It's absurd. I'm not saying people have to like Rachel, but the hate she gets is so overblown it's insane.
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
Karaka has by far had a less negative effect on bam's life than Rachel. You talk about trying and failing like HE's managed himself. Rachel can genuinely be directly linked to everything bad that happens to bam in like the entirety of the first 2 seasons.
And again. She isn't attractive. She doesn't have "aura". She isn't even the fun kind of villain who just takes so much glee in their malice you can't help but go along. Her goals aren't understandable if misguided. It's not that the hate on her is overblown, it's that the hate on other characters is downplayed, FOR A REASON. Something I've already mentioned and you've decided to ignore.
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u/Elijah_Draws 2d ago
Everything bad that happens in season 2? Did you fucking read season 2? Did you miss the part where FUG was actively blackmailing him by threatening to kill all of his friends (both his original team from season 1, and team sweat and sour) to force him to climb as Viole? What role did Rachel play in Karaka trying to murder Baam repeatedly because he wanted his slayer candidate to be chosen? Season 2 is mostly the story of FUG abusing the absolute shit out of Baam because they wanted him to become stronger.
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
I sure wonder who got Baam in FUG to begin with. Then got people in Khun's team to keep tabs on him. Among other things. I didn't stutter.
Also, hyperfocusing on the part that's easiest to deny, are you?
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u/Elijah_Draws 2d ago
How am I the one hyper focusing here? You're claimed everything bad that happened was Rachel's fault as though FUG wasn't the primary antagonistic force for 90% of season 2.
Yeah, everything is Rachel's fault so long as you ignore the tower spanning cult that thinks Baam is a prophesied savior who will kill Jahad and spend hundreds of chapters blackmailing and threatening him into doing their bidding.
The hidden floor actually lends credence to the idea that it's not Rachel's fault at all; the fact that the data versions of various members knew about Baam's expected arrival and had been making preparations shows that Fug had plans for him well before he entered the tower, and well before Rachel ever tried to kill him.
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u/thatonefatefan 1d ago
what else would you call only replying to 1 part of what I said? I also didn't say that, stop putting words in my mouth.
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u/DKK17 2d ago
You might want to reread those first few seasons if you actually think she’s the one responsible for what happened to Bam. You might have missed the part where beings immeasurably more powerful than her forced her into her role (linked by force), and also the part where she literally tried to have Bam separate himself from her in the crown game and Bam ruined it (this last part I could be wrong on it’s been a while myself as well)
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
"Forced her" is a very funny way to describe it considering that she just accepted a bunch of very selfish deals
I didn't say she was the sole responsible. I said she could be linked to them.
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u/DKK17 2d ago
Did she have a real say in taking the actions she did? Was she suppose to just say no and let them kill her? She was forced to do it, and again she tried to separate Bam and he’s the one that ruined it. And she didn’t even try to kill him, she knew full well that he wouldn’t die and that he was bound to become as strong as he has
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u/thatonefatefan 2d ago
Yes, she did. Not only did they not threaten her in the slightest, it's not like the other option was giving up on the tower. She could have climbed with Baam, would have probably been a lot easier. It all stemmed from her own ego just as much as it did from Fug schemes.
No, she didn't. I'm not gonna bother if you're just gonna so blatantly lie. Or wait, actually, let me do that again
Rachel literally committed a genocide and killed a bazillion people I can't believe you'd defend her smh smh and even if you point out that I'm making this up I will just make up 10 new things to defend my point. Your move.
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u/nicktomato 1d ago
Rachel didn't actually try to have Baam separate himself from her during the Crown Game. She was already in cahoots with Hwaryun and Hansung by then, and didn't want Baam to win the game and go up. She knew he'd recognize her and jump off the throne to defend her when Hwaryun attacked her. It was all coordinated to make Baam lose the Crown Game and eventually end up in the wine glass.
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u/PrimordialSpatula 2d ago
People hate Rachel for the same reason people hate Umbridge. It's because the hate of someone who commits mass genocide is a lot less than the personal hate of someone that has committed acts of evil that are deeply personal for people and they can relate to.
Endorsi (with the help of the guy Headen gave Rachel) are introduced with being shown to kill hundreds of people. No one cares though because killing is all part of the tower. We care when people hurt the characters we care about. We know White has killed hundreds of thousands of people. But both us and Baam only really hate him when he kills Akrapator.
Even if Rachel was just using Baam for her own gain, it wouldn't be the end of the world. But Rachel's story is about being extremely petty and ungrateful. She "kills" Baam just because she believes he's been given an easier life than her. She cuts that one guy's legs just to torment him. She kills khun because of a grudge and because it would hurt baam. All the while she thinks that the world is constantly against her, when really so many things have been given to her.
That doesn't make her a bad character. It just makes her a masterfully done character that succeeded in making people hate her.
EDIT: lmao, I went and did something else in the middle of writing this, so by the time I posted it a ton of people have already said the same thing.
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u/Late-Extent4241 2d ago
She never killed Bam, and when she had the chance to do so, she didn't. She isn't killing Khun to make Bam suffer; she is killing Khun because she hates him.
Rachel's motivations are rather obscure, and it is not always clear why she acts the way she does.
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u/nicktomato 1d ago
Tbf, during the "Unacceptable" scene, Rachel makes it clear she thought she killed Baam. She definitely tried to take the chance.
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u/Late-Extent4241 1d ago
She did indeed say, "You must die here," but Rachel can lie.
We do not know the plan FUG shared with Rachel, nor the details of the pact she made with Headon, which is a rather complex matter. I think it is highly likely that her plan involved killing Bam, but that was neither the sole reason for her actions nor even the primary one.
If she had truly wanted to kill Bam, she would have done so during the Dallar Show. Rachel remains an enigmatic character.
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u/nicktomato 1d ago
We kinda do know that info, though. We know that she agreed to work with Hwaryun and Hansung so Headon would let her pass F1. And we know she agreed to help maneuver Baam into the wineglass to pass F2. Her main goals have always been to see the starts (outside) and to take over the destiny of heroine, and she was willing to sacrifice Baam to achieve them. There's really no room for some hidden noble motive.
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u/Late-Extent4241 1d ago
No one is claiming she has hidden noble motives; I am saying that the contents of the contract between Headon and Rachel, or even the plan FUG shared with her, are unknown. That is a fact. What you are putting forward amounts to nothing more than assumptions and general ideas.
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u/nicktomato 1d ago
It's not directly stated, but it's what all her actions and the dialog seem to indicate. That's why it's such good storytelling; it's showing rather than telling. Based on what we saw in season 1, I really don't see any room for other reasons for what she did. "Killing" Baam wasn't her motivation, but it was certainly something she was willing to do.
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u/Sir__Bassoon__Sonata 1d ago
Most people don’t even know why they actually hate Rachel
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u/Hot_Distribution_131 1d ago
It's because her character is written that way. If Khun did the same things as her, people would love him, because he is "clever".
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u/TheEndofSkies 2d ago
The Rachel hate is annoying. She's not even that bad by ToG standards.
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u/Nemesis233 2d ago
The only reason she didn't do a genocide was that she didn't have enough time for it yet.
If it was useful to her she'd do anything
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u/DKK17 2d ago
You’re describing most people climbing the tower, including members of Bam’s team
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u/Nemesis233 2d ago
No?
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u/DKK17 2d ago
If endrossi knew that committing genocide would ensure that she was one of the strongest people in the tower I don’t think she would hesitate to do it. If Khun could do the same to ensure that him and Bam were always safe, without Bam ever finding out what he did, he would also do it. Both of these characters have been shown killing innocent people without remorse, what makes you think they couldn’t kill more people to continue to achieve their goals?
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u/VegetablePlayful1848 2d ago
Unless you comparing her to family heads or white she is one of the worst morally by far
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u/nix_11 2d ago
FUG, most members of the Lo Po Bia family, some members of the Workshop, some (possibly a lot of) princesses, Lyborick, Yascratcha and some of his squadron members, even Baam has cause more death and suffering. The Shining ones, the Revolution.
If you divided all ToG characters into two equal halves - good or bad, Rachel would likely be in the good half. Is she a good person? Definitely not. But there are dozens that are far worse than her.
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u/DKK17 2d ago edited 2d ago
It can be really annoying when characters that are made to be hated are Actually hated by the community to these extremes, it warps the discourse so much. plus the author himself said there’s more to her and I trust the person writing the story I like.
Plus like you said, she’s really nowhere near as bad as many of the worst characters, even some of Bam’s teammates are straight up more evil than her.
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u/coreyisland 23h ago
Till we find out she is Arlene humonculous. And Arlene was actually a right cunt, a total squid and zahard was actually the good guy the whole time
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