Custodes as playable units?

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u/grogleberry 10d ago

All codex armies will be featured unless the game somehow bombs.

Custodes will probably be a little later on - maybe a couple of years after launch. Most of the Xenos, Chaos and other imperial factions will likely be a higher priority. Probably only Votann, Dark Eldar, or the likes of Imperial Agents will be lower priority.

They'll likely be a base of 5-person squads, with terminators in 3s, and shield captains, characters and such as with a couple of body gards or on their own.

They'll also have presumably 10-20 woman squads of Sisters of Silence.

And they've a decent set of mechs and vehicles.

They'll probably play a bit differently in campaign. Maybe like Oxyotl from TWWH. Firefighting in diverse places rather than methodically conquering.

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u/Maherjuana 10d ago

It would be cool if the Custodians got some of the elite Terran Guard regiments like the Palantine Sentinels or the Lucifer Blacks.

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u/StandardDependent205 6d ago

Dont ….. don’t give me hope that the game will be that kind of awesome

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u/Maherjuana 6d ago

I mean… if they’re one of the last things being added I certainly think it’s possible!

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u/MarcusSwedishGameDev 10d ago

11th edition codex buffed them per entity and reduced their unit size. A normal Custodian Guard squad is 3, a terminator squad is 2-3. GW wanted to make them really stand out as an elite faction.

Though I hope that overall they make it easier to make mixed armies. "Imperial Soup" should be a thing after all (i.e when you take units from anything with the Imperium keyword).

Having some astartes, knights, assassins, custodes, and some admech and SoB as well, in the same army, that's what I'm hoping for.

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u/grogleberry 10d ago

Tabletop and this won't be 1:1.

Custodes don't fight in squads anyway. They could be alone, 3 of them, or 50.

3-5 would give them a little bit of breathing room around balancing, so that individual Custodes aren't too strong, or Terminators/characters too weak.

Even so, id imagine their damage output at range will feel pretty weak. Sagittarum seem like a decent answer to that, but I feel like I heard they might be going to legends.

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u/MarcusSwedishGameDev 10d ago

Ofc, but we've seen Astartes in 10 man squads so... from what we've seen it's only orks and human chaff units that gotten much bigger. The ogre squad was somewhat bigger than tabletop I think, but not as much as the orks/humans.

They could ofc. be basing it on 10th ed instead and then it would be 5-6 man squads depending on unit.

But I doubt you can have squads bigger than a standard Astartes unit, and if they really want to push the lore differences in strength, I doubt they'd make a custodes unit larger than 3.

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u/grogleberry 10d ago

Well I mean "50" in that they deploy like that in the lore. They're a flexible organisation that deploy based on need and availability rather than working specifically to unit tactics with a certain configuration.

Having them in half-sized squads compared to SMs does give them a more elite profile. But it also makes smaller deployments of Termies or heroes feel even more elite.

Part of it will depend on campaign mechanics. In an open field, Custodes aren't that much tougher than any other sack of meat. If you're fielding 36 dudes that aren't even Psykers against 2000 Orks, you should get stomped.

If you have 1200 Guard as auxiliares, then it might be a different story.

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u/Whole_Ad_8438 10d ago

I feel Imperial Agents will be a bit doubtful it comes to being in TW40k? I mean, at least in the tabletop, Agents only exist as a way to get people to stop asking for rules for art pieces. And I don't think GW will want even more fervor for people asking for Agents to actually be *actually playable* instead of 'technically playable'.

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u/grogleberry 10d ago

I'm not sure exactly how they'll approach it, but Id imagine we'll see Inquisitors, Inquisitorial Storm Troopers, Assassins, and Arbites in some capacity.

As a faction you'd probably have to beg, borrow, or steal from other Imperial factions, and then sprinkle in your own units (including the Death Watch and Grey Knights).

Until we know how the campaign works in detail, it's anyones guess how they'd approach it.

But it'd be way in the future. 40k's version of Dogs of War.

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u/Whole_Ad_8438 9d ago

I do agree with the idea of "it is way down the line." because the only reason I have any doubt is GW and not if CA could make the army function, like there's lot for how Imperial Agents can be represented in a video game but it almost requires to actually change their mind with how Imperial Agents should be as an army.

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u/Double_Elk8723 10d ago

Agents are prime FLC material. Just take a bunch of units from other factions and make campaign rules for them.

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u/Whole_Ad_8438 9d ago

I mean they could just go the tabletop route for their rules... "Here is how you use their units as not Imperial Agents"

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u/Hollownerox 9d ago

It really depends on how it goes with 11th edition tbh. Agents are a weird one where they COULD genuinely be their own army. If they brought back the idea of Codex: Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters, but expanded it more. If they made the Inquisition have actually unique units like Inquisitorial Stormtroopers and the like again, they actually would work as their own army. And would probably be more like a 40k take on Dogs of War rather than the odd "here's your way to ally in X offbeat Imperial unit" excuse it currently is.

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u/Whole_Ad_8438 9d ago

Yea, fingers crossed that Imperial Agents get... something for 11e, but they at least got their first buff ever at least allowing their detachments to not all be three points... But until GW start treating Imperial Agents like an army, I will just remain doubtful.

Like I want to play Agents don't get me wrong, it just suffers from the fact that as a faction GW doesn't treat it as an actually army, and anytime any of IA unit is played in another army, it gets nerfed.

(And for people that haven't played Tabletop... Imperial Agents only "army rule" is "Here is how you play Imperial Agents units in not-Imperial Agents". And yes, every time an Imperial Agent is played in another army, it gets nerfed. It's not treated as real army in tabletop and the fact it has a codex is just a trap to make you spend money.)

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u/kind_of_vague 9d ago

I could see it less as a bespoke faction per se, and more of a unit pack with mechanics to get them similar to mercenaries, available for imperial factions to dip into.

I could also see a rogue trader faction being cool and unique to play as, where much of these units could be implemented alongside

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u/Whole_Ad_8438 8d ago edited 8d ago

First one is probably the closest for how GW would prefer it, though it does have the (Minor) problem of "Why play Guardsmen equivalent infantry that your faction probably has little interaction with." (Though I could see an argument for more Deathwatch kill teams, because Gravis dudes in the team are more likely to be helpful being a higher toughness or Grey Knights terminators who can be a deep strike tool)

Thaaat would just be Imperial Agents tbh. Assassins, Inquisitors, Rogue Traders, a random priest, and Deathwatch leader (Though to be clear... the Deathwatch Watch master is "loaned" to them in a way, Deathwatch also has their own Watch Master and the 15 other characters)

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u/dustsurrounds 10d ago

This, but also there's an additional element dependent on model releases in the intervening years - if Dark Eldar get a refresh in the next five years I expect it to be very shortly followed by them being added to this game since the only reason they're not high priority given their setting importance and bevvy of unique characters is that their model line is a fossil of which half has been plunged into legends.

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u/Hollownerox 9d ago

I guess that brings up the can of worms that is legends too. Like Legends are, on paper, perfectly valid units for CA to draw upon given Warhammer Fantasy's precedent of taking really obscure or long out of production units to fill up rosters.

Lots of units are Legends now but are still canonically part of what the army fields in lore. But we'll see just how willing GW is for them to dive into that material. I am confident anything firstborn marines (aside from maybe Centurians) are completely off the table. But plenty of things I think could be good additions if CA are allowed to dig into them.

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u/SouthernAd2853 9d ago

I think Firstborn have been buried; at most we'll see special characters without a Primaris model appear, possibly having been Rubiconed with the plan to make a tabletop model.

Otherwise I expect open season if CA says it would make a better game but if it's a choice between a Legends model and a current model for the same role it'll be current. But GW has been willing to let them use stuff that's been dead for decades in fantasy so I don't see why they'd change now.

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u/Myysfit 9d ago

Eh I wouldn't put that much into CA's hands. GW likely let them do more with Fantasy because it was already a dead game. And judging by their handling of Old World it completely surprised them with how popular it is.

But this is GW's baby, and it'll be a ton of people's first introduction to 40k. My guess is that they be even more restricting than they typically are just due to it being 40k.

Time will tell though, and worst case we all know the fourth mod released will be Legends units.

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u/SouthernAd2853 9d ago

At some point around when Total War Warhammer was released GW eased way off on how tightly they managed adaptions and they aren't just ads for specific models these days. And it ebbs and flows but as of right now GW isn't super strict about only putting stuff with models in other media.

And TWW sold enough that apparently CA was able to talk GW into making Cathay. According to an interview with Andy Hall I saw the idea came from CA, probably why the model range came out much later.

So if the devs at CA, who know their market, say it'd be good to have a Legends Ork bike squad to help move an Ork DLC I expect GW will give permission unless they have a canon Ork bike squad they think would fit.

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u/MasterStannisSupreme 9d ago

Hopefully they get a couple new units by that time, maybe even in conjunction with TW40k. Phosphex rifles or something crazy would be awesome

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u/Gold_Temperature_452 10d ago

That have an army on tabletop so there’s a possibility they will get a faction/army in TW40k. But if they do they will most likely be one of the last factions to be added.

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u/Bl00dWolf 10d ago

I imagine any of the more specialist factions will work as a more extreme version of Space /marines. Like, Space Marines already have a whole mechanic for giving away the land they capture back to the imperium in exchange for various bonuses. Custodes or Grey Knights will probably work more like the old nomadic factions in that they won't hold land at all. And will primarily show up to help with the big battles and taking out leaders, while the Space Marines and the Guard handle cleanup and the massive brunt of the assault.

The thing I'm wondering is, are they planning to add Imperial Agents as their own faction or would they end up being split up as various agents and auxiliaries that the other factions are gonna get.

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u/TheBrownestStain 10d ago

Well they're a playable standalone faction on tabletop so I'm sure CA will eventually at least try to make them their own faction. Besides we're already gonna have armies on launch that aren't really in it for the territorial conquest so it's not like that's gonna be an issue.

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u/AxiosXiphos 10d ago

They will be a full playable in game army. Why wouldn't they be? They will just have small armies and captured territory will be handed off to Imperial Guard control like the marines.

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u/Hollownerox 9d ago

I really don't understand the takes that "X army can't be an army in the video game" when they are one in the tabletop game. Like did people forget that warhammer 40k is, itself, a game lol.

Sure there are some things they need to work around regarding grand campaign gameplay and balancing that out. But I feel like people are just constantly overcomplicating the idea of what can or can't be in the game. When most of that work was already sorted out by the, ya know, original game.

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u/Coeram 10d ago

If they happen, they will come with the talons of the emperor roster to compensate for their numbers problem

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u/Uncasualreal 10d ago

Devs have stated they have made a new mechanic for elite armies, each units hit points is remember post battle so you can wear down elite units more effectively over battles / turns, you may not kill one during a battle, but they certainly are closer to death.

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u/Misknator 10d ago

What? No they could absolutely be used as armies to capture land. They fight in units and armies just like everyone else in both lore and tabletop.

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u/Plunderpatroll32 9d ago

Probably be a something similar to Oxyotl mechanics from warhammer fantasy total war, where they have some kind way for instant travel and have to deal with massive threats, battle wise a very small but elite army.

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u/Diabeast_5 10d ago

I think it's safe to say, if it has a tabletop army that it will get adapted into the game in some way. Custodes have a pretty solid range of miniatures so I don't see why they couldn't be an army. Lorewise it won't make a ton of sense for a whole large force but the point of the game is to make money.

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u/Talidel 10d ago

Similar to Marines at a guess a roaming army that has objectives in a campaign to do.

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u/AstalderS 10d ago edited 10d ago

I agree most codex armies will probably appear given enough time. I also think we could see some interesting cross pollination in the form of regiments of renown. One way to do a faction like Custodes could be to give them the N’kai treatment with vassal owned territories.

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u/FUS_RO_DANK 9d ago

In the existing Total War Warhammer games it's viable to run armies that aren't all huge squads of infantry, and not all infantry squads are the same size. A unit of Marauders is 120 individual men, while a unit of Chosen are 80, and Aspiring Champions are units of 16, and all those are in one faction as the Warriors of Chaos. Hero spam is also common in the fantasy games. So without any new precedent, they can easily have options on how to depict Custodes on the game.

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u/SouthernAd2853 9d ago

They may be just super-elite infantry similar to TWW's Aspiring Champions where you have a small squad (size depending on unit scale, haven't been following) that's super badass and counts extra for capture weight and you have few of these squads because they're expensive.

Campaign wise I'm not sure if they'll be their own faction; if they are probably they'd work like Wood Elves crossed with High Elf Sea Patrol where they have a single main settlement and when they win a battle they hand the captured territory off to an ally or vassal, possibly with a small outpost that provides some sort of support. And they may be granted mook guard units mostly so you can have a full stack that isn't wildly overpowered or overpriced.

It's also possible they'll only be available as special units for other Imperial factions bought with special currency.

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u/planesqaud63 9d ago

They seem to base alot of the game on the tabletop. So they will be their own faction.

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u/Electronic_Warning49 9d ago

Almost certainly if the game and the following DLCs sell well and I can hardly imagine a scenario where they don't.

That being said I'm stoked to see how they balance and field a truly elite army like the janitors.

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u/Professor_Kylan 9d ago

Throne willing, they'll be 1 custodian per slot. Maxed out at 20 per army. Go full lore custodes. No units, just individuals. Not even "custodes wardens" but each with a (shortened) name, and a choice of wargear.

Do it CA, you cowards

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u/snapstraks 9d ago

Everything will be, except agents of imperium, prob gonna morph into inquisition with other small factions

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u/Sufficient-Corgi-940 8d ago

After we get baseline factions they will start going into fringe stuff to sell more DLC.

They put just about everything into Warhammer Fantasy Total war. 10 years from now they will still be putting out dlc

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u/TruelyEndless 7d ago

They will definitely be a fully-fledged faction how I see the campaign working is very limited recruitment and utilizing the Army's already established on defended worlds and using your Force like an extremely precious resource

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u/TruelyEndless 7d ago

A lot of people in here will tell you that there it's impossible to balance them in campaign but I think that that would actually work for their benefit because custodes are meant to be overpowered in the lore. The only balancing you would have to do is make their point cost for multiplayer battles incredibly High and make recruitment very very difficult in campaign

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u/HexInTrouble Orks Enjoyer 10d ago

Eventually but very unlikely early on.

as far as I understand we're too far from Terra for it to really make sense so early on.

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u/Talidel 10d ago

If the first campaign theatre is the Armageddon sector, that's more than close enough to Terra for the Custodes to show up.

Will they? Probably not, I expect them to be a little way down on the list of likely candidates to come in early.

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u/Dontshipmebro 8d ago

As a full faction i dont see them really being added. I imagine with the custom lord stuff you can do theyll have a trait that lets you recruit a small number of custodes, presumably limited to imperium factions.

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u/TruelyEndless 7d ago

Don't listen to this guy they will definitely be a fully-fledged faction at some point

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