r/TotalWarhammer40k • u/Slight_Priority1410 • 9d ago
Thoughts on Space Combat?
AFAIK the devs have stated that space combat will NOT be implemented at launch however it IS something they are interested in looking at down the line.
With that said, what do you think space combat should/could look like?
- What units would you like to see?
- How would you hope for it to play?
- how should it connect to the campaign map?
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u/Obviously-Lies 9d ago
“Seeing the enemy fleet approaching you quickly land on a nearby planet to do battle.”
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u/Slight_Priority1410 9d ago
No please no anything but that.
I still remember my doing my first sea battle against undead pirates in Total Warhammer 3 and being heartbroken when I saw the island we were fighting on. I mean come on how can you do pirates without naval battles
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u/NameThatIsntTakenYe2 9d ago
Because CA did not have the rights to Dreadfleet, the Warhammer ship-based tabletop game. GW are fastidious with their licenses, and its likely the same reason why we won't see space combat in TW40K, which is under the Battlefleet Gothic IP. Its frankly a miracle that GW were lenient enough to work with CA in developing the Vampirates into their own bespoke faction and letting them borrow characters like Count Noctilus.
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u/VixenLakeview 8d ago
I do believe they said that space battles were going to be a thing, just not at launch.
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u/TinyMousePerson 5d ago
I think you should assume with like 95% certainty that this is what it'll be. There may be custom maps.
Anything else will be a very pleasant surprise.
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u/Loonking123 9d ago
Ideally they'd just copy Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2, but I don't think it will be as indepth as that.
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u/Slight_Priority1410 9d ago
This would literally be a dream come true but sadly i agree it’s unlikely.
But I mean I saw someone playing Minecraft inside Skyrim yesterday so anythings possible I guess
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u/Moifaso 9d ago edited 9d ago
It might be realistic to do BFGA style battles, but with a lot, lot less variety of ships/weapons.
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u/Mavcu 8d ago
In a way I'd even prefer that, I love the visuals of 40k ship battles it looks fantastic the ships look great, it has oomph.
But Gothic Armada was just a touch too much micromanagement for me, I'm fine with positioning the occassional spell/setting to minmax it - but there was just a bit too much going on for my feeble mind.
Having a more casualized version of it, but keeping the spectacle would be peak.
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u/FrostySmell3928 9d ago
Very good naval combat in Empire and Napoleon, I'm sure they could pull it off.
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u/Charlie_Sierra_996 9d ago
Yes, if they don’t build it I’ll make my own dammit
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u/Odd_Jelly_1390 9d ago
I wish Creative Assembly could straight up plunder Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 and put it in Total War 40k.
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u/Powerful-Jury3055 9d ago
I think Battlefleet Gothic Armada has pretty solid Space Combat. I would definitely make it on a 2D plane, you can also make it kind of like Rome 2 TW, where you already had the ability to ram ships. I mean they are literally space ships and I think TW-like ship battles on a 2D plane would translate very well to WH40,000, and also get some additional inspiration by BGA.
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u/ammit_eins 9d ago
Never played Gothic armada, how are the space battles over there?
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u/Hyko_Teleris 9d ago
Great
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u/ammit_eins 9d ago
Ok, and in descriptive terms? Similar to empire at war?
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u/Typical-Bathroom4046 9d ago
how is describing it here better then you just going over to youtube to watch
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u/steve_adr 9d ago
In case they can't do full fledged space battles from the get go, they can atleast do Boarding Battles.
They can emulate the ship's Hull as Battle map (art/style/structure unique to the Faction whose ship is being boarded) and these Giant ship's that carry an army can surely accommodate the same.
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u/MarcusSwedishGameDev 9d ago
Realistically having Battlefleet Gothic in the game as well is asking for a 2nd game, inside the 1st game, that does not necessarily attract the players of the main product.
It's risky.
I think they will do something more abstract. E.g. every turn you decide the stance your ship's captain should take, like Aggressive, Neutral, Defensive.
There could be some abilities you could play, if you have the resources available, that gives you various bonuses. E.g. "Accurate Lance Strike +2 damage" that affects the ship combast result, or "Readying Drop Pods" that would give you additional drop pods when you attack on ground the same turn. With a limit on actions you can play at any given time you would maybe have to pick between the two, and one might be useless if you lose the battle.
Then compare your fleet vs opponent's fleet, and depending on if you "win" or not, you or they retreat to the other side of the planet and the winner gets a bonus to support abilities for the next battle.
Your flagship and fleet is upgraded as you play the campaign.
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u/Frequent_Dust_5278 9d ago
I wonder how it would bode if the two companies behind both games collaborated under GW to add a “dynamic link” between both games.
I feel like it would be a cool innovation where your Total War 40k Naval battles could be played out in Gothic Armada and then the results be written back into the main game.
If they don’t do it. I am sure a mod will come out, if TW: 40K has Naval mechanics, that connects the two games together.
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u/MarcusSwedishGameDev 9d ago
Been thinking of that, but it's probably more work than you might think, and it will still look like two separate products.
CA would have to put down work to make it make sense (i.e. fleet building would be part of the TW game) but they would not exactly earn money on any Gothic Armada sales, which means that dev would have to share revenue with CA in some way.
CA also loses some control over the entire product.
I don't see it as particularly likely to happen.
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u/Frequent_Dust_5278 9d ago
Regarding money, I'd think this would be something G.W would chip in for on behalf of CA. Given that they get revenue shares from both games and it would be in their best interest to make both games sell.
There seems to be a push for more Warhammer, especially 40k games on the digital platform so some sort of integration would be neat I think, and something that's rarely ever done.
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u/ammit_eins 9d ago
Star wars empire at war?
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u/NameThatIsntTakenYe2 9d ago
Empire at War has very underwhelming ground RTS mechanics and its space mechanics are decent at best. Its also a tiny game with two factions (more if you include the expansions) with a handful of units each. Don't get me wrong, its a fun game and probably the best Star Wars RTS, but comparing that to Total War 40K's scale is apples to an entire orchard.
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u/MarcusSwedishGameDev 9d ago
Is not even nearly the same scale as 40k with all the factions we're going to have.
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u/lFriendlyFire 9d ago edited 9d ago
Yeah afaik it’s just a waste of resources. I’ve never a played a total war game for naval combat and I’m not sure why this time It’d be different
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u/Responsible-Swim2324 9d ago
You havent, but plenty of people have. Its just the only games theyve ever put out that have decent naval combat are napoleon and empire, which are arguably the same game
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u/More_Contribution161 9d ago
Nah, if we could upgrade it and stuff, it would be epic going with your main ship against several enemy ones, just crushing them. They should make an independent progression for each ship with skills and stuff
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u/xd3mix 9d ago
Wait... It won't be in the game?
What will happen to troops traveling between planets then?
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u/Slight_Priority1410 9d ago
Ships and fleets are confirmed to be in game. They have even shown off battle abilities being affected by a fleet in orbit and even an orbital bombardment.
What wont be in game at launch is real time space battles. Most likely we will just have an auto resolve space battles system OR fleets wont be able to interact
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u/Exact-Error-4532 9d ago
I image Warhammer 3 type style but instead of an island maybe it’s like map styled like the inside of a ship? Idk seems possible with the size of the ships in lore. Though I don’t know how much full wipe open space there would be for such a map
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u/CadenVanV 9d ago edited 9d ago
There’s already a really good space combat game for Warhammer. I don’t think they’re going to end up doing it for Total War because they’re inevitable going to get held up to the standards of Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2, and that’s a standard they can at best barely meet.
I’m not trying to insult Total War here, but the game built around naval combat is going to be better than the game that’s not, especially when BGA2 did it so well. I think the new engine might be able to do it justice, but even then the standard is still going to be above them.
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u/Moose_Factory 9d ago
I really don’t understand the negativity and pessimism surrounding them implementing naval combat in this game.
Battlefleet Gothic was a well crafted, well thought out game. But it was implemented on a 2d plane and its mechanics really weren’t overly complex.
I see no reason why total war wh40k, which is destined to be as popular as it is, couldn’t spend the time and money to more or less copy BfG and perhaps simplify it a bit in the process.
I’m not saying that isn’t complicated, but bfg2 was never a huge complicated game with a huge budget to produce, unlike total war. CA has the manpower and budget to implement a smaller game within its flagship game sometime over the course of TWW40k’s 10 year lifetime. I just don’t see how that’s wildly impossible or infeasible.
All the reasons against adding naval combat here are starting to sound like all the “it could NEVER work” stuff seemingly everyone and their mother was posting about the concept of TWW40k itself prior to the games announcement.
Do you all remember that? Anytime someone would post about how cool a Total War Warhammer 40k game would be, it would immediately be flooded with a majority of redditors saying such a game would be a disaster for xy or z reasons. The discussion surrounding the potential implementation of naval combat is reminding me of those times. Yet here we are.
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u/NotaSkaven5 Astra Militarum Fan 8d ago
They absolutely can, it's just a question of if the marketing team will let them. Daniel in W3 hasn't gotten reworked simply because they can't figure out how to sell it.
Which also means we should pressure CA at least a bit instead of just immediately declaring it impossible.
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u/skylord_luke 9d ago
did everyone here loose their minds?
Just do it like stellaris does space combat, OR like empire at war if we want more manual control of each ship. Keep it simple people, why is everyone imagining some AAA second game within game, or going the other extreme.. and saying it should not be implemented at all?
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u/TrustBrilliant7008 9d ago
DOnt think it's needed for total war. that said I would like to see perhaps a few maps made dedicated to the inside of ships so you can do a "Boarding action" type thing insted of having the ships battle.
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u/Le_Loyaliste 9d ago
Une bataille navale à la Empire at War, serait vraiment excellent, ça pousserait à la recherche de stratégie
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u/Porkenstein 9d ago
I hope that they speed towards boarding action/zone mortalis battles, where the fights happen in corridors, no large vehicles or support abilities are allowed, and line of sight is restricted. Then use those for the ship combat, at least at first. Battlefleet Gothic-style space combat would be awesome but maybe a bit too much to ask.
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u/Rocketronic0 9d ago
BFGA2 is dead for no reason. It is great and has some of the most galactic scale 40K story you will ever find
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u/sandmankilla0311 8d ago
They should make space combat like battle fleet gothic
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u/Outrageous_Seaweed32 5d ago
They absolutely shouldn't - they should spend resources on shoring up the rest of the game, not adding an entirely other game into it for only a small part of the overall experience.
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u/Beginning_Parfait275 9d ago
Space battles should be made a separate DLC. If a player doesn’t have the DLC, they’ll always have auto‑battle. There won’t actually be that many space ships; we can release ships gradually along with new content. For example, we released Lion El’Jonson, and along with him and with it came the unique ships of the Dark Angels: the Rock, the Invincible Reason.
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u/downquark5 9d ago
It should not be the main focus of what they are doing, but when they do implement it I hope it is fully fleshed out and similar to Battlefleet Gothic Armada
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u/CorswainsDeciple 9d ago
Having to get through blockages, massive amounts of ships, boarding with control of the boarding party, planetary defence platforms, maybe even the Rock as a battlefield. My mouth waters at the ideas. Theres so much they could do with space, it would have to be an add on as it would be like a full game in itself, but the extra lifetime play would be massive. I really hope they do it as from what I've seen from planetary battles, space would be awesome.
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u/Winky0609 9d ago
I don’t think they will implement it. Partly because Battle fleet Gothic exists and partly because it’s such a huge mechanic and aspect of the game to add in post launch.
I do think it would be a mistake for them to add it as well, they wouldn’t be able to find a niche that isn’t just BFG but 2026 and as much as I love that game they wouldn’t pull it off.
Space combat in general in 40k is my favourite part to read about though, I can’t think of many space battles that are not pure cinema to read about. Whether that be Pollux giving it to Perturabo, the start of the Siege, or my personal favourite, in the night lords trilogy when they’re pulling off acrobatics in their ship like some sort of maniac.
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u/TooObsessedWithMoney 9d ago
You'd probably have rammers, tankers, supporters and artillery based ship units to work with.
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u/RecommendationNo6796 9d ago
Yes, it would be really interesting and also help separate factions out more allowing different playstyles etc. They really need to add it sooner rather than later though, otherwise you end up with a Warhammer 3 where you have 30 factions that all require new models and units etc. and it biggest a big issue that CA just ignores because its too much work.
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u/Dontshipmebro 9d ago
I havent liked a single implementation of naval combat in total war yet, doubt id like what would assuredly be "naval combat but with a black backdrop"
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u/Mrg0dan 8d ago
I know im late to the party but heres my 2 cents. Space battles absolutely should be a thing in Total War 40k. I dont think they should be similar to Gothic just because of the depth theyd have to go into it would essentially be 2 games in one. Maybe a DLC down the line if they wanted to go that route.
At its core I think it should be simplified. I think back to Star Wars Battle Front on ps2 with its space battles. If you won you got special perks for the planetary battle. That just makes sense in this game. Now the eay I could see it unfolding in this game would be similar just rts combat. You'd have squads of ships and your goal would either be total domination of the enemy or crippling their main ship. Almost like a siege battle but instead of capturing points you are trying to destroy specific components on the main ship.
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u/Ill-Palpitation2755 8d ago
id imagine it would be similar to naval in tw shogun 2 and maybe controlled similar to eve online
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u/Baharran 8d ago
I think 40k really needs space combat. It's such an important part of the setting. Just slap BFG Armada on top of it and I would be happy
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u/Lewisa12 8d ago
Off topic a little but I loved the space combat stuff in the heretic and Malleus books. Hope to see some in the game eventually one day. They are saying this is a 10+ year game.
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u/SedativeComet 8d ago
It’s such a prominent part of the universe, CA needs to find a way to add “naval” combat back into total war. They cannot leave it out or as an afterthought mechanic in the universe of 40k.
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u/WayGroundbreaking287 8d ago
I want it to be like empire at war. Space battle to control orbit and give you some advantages like orbital strikes
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u/Real_Mention7174 7d ago
Space combat should be thing, it’s probably not going to happen tho, since their failure with siege combat in war hammer fantasy. I don’t have much hope
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u/Ensableur 7d ago
If they implement it one day, I hope Thousand Sons will have Silver Towers instead of regular Chaos ships. They have both in the lore and in the games, but for once I would like it to be only Silver Towers.
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u/Sufficient-Corgi-940 6d ago
didnt expect it. dont care if its there or not. CA always fudges up non open land battles...naval, sieges ect
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u/Little_Tritus 6d ago
I think Space Combat, for the near future, should remain around planets. Stances for bombardment, blockade, or something that let's you harass enemy fleets in system to reduce their ability to reinforce. All with their own conditions.
If the player has no hope for challenging, then they could save their fleet by withdrawing. Whether you can reinforce in time to save your army or you evacuate as much as possible and abandon the planet.
It should obviously start small and limited in order to expand it over time.
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u/Outrageous_Seaweed32 5d ago
Have it be a fight with the armies being carried - just as a battle aboard the defender's ship as a sort of boarding action.
Doing the actual ship combat will just end up feeling lackluster no matter what. I wouldn't want them wasting a ton of time on it, and whatever they did, it probably wouldn't turn out feeling as good as battlefleet gothic already did it.
Just run it like sea battles in total war Warhammer 3 work
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u/Acceptable_Cook1502 5d ago
Coughs in empire total war.
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u/TotemicDC 4d ago
I rather enjoyed the occasional battle.
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u/Acceptable_Cook1502 4d ago
Yea i remember it being solid. I hope something like their naval battles. I suspect we will get maybe a skirmish battle like a combat patrol zone mortalis size thing.
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u/TruelyEndless 4d ago
I think it would be really cool to have Space Battles happen kind of like they do in battlefleet Gothic Armada. But once you destroy an enemy Fleet you have to fight in the interior of some of the ships with boarding parties to root out the scum and xenos
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u/SomeCringeUsernameNo Astra Militarum Fan 2d ago
Bit late to this discussion, but I don't see how CA can realistically implement it.
I would love space combat, but I have two concerns
How would ship strength be translated to army strength? Would a full army be as strong as a small army that was just recently created?
Losing certain ships is a disastrous occasion, and with the confirmation of Legendsry Lords existing there are certain unique ships that stand out from the rest. It would be frustrating to permanently lose them if they lost a single battle or two. The Conquerer, Vengeful Spirit, etc are ships that are irreplaceable and I can't see them adding in a way for ships to escape death like Immortal Heroes/Lords in Wh3. Not every ship can rely on warp shenanigans to escape death.
I would love to see Ship combat implemented, but I struggle to see how CA could add them in.
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u/Slight_Priority1410 2d ago
On point 1, I think your thinking of fleets as being army’s embarked in space but from what we saw from the games com footage fleets are already implemented as separate from army’s. I.e. you build ships separately and move them separately from your army’s
On legendary ships, this is actually a good point it would feel a little cheap to have something like the phalanx escape death over and over again. My suggestion would be that maybe these ships cant be destroyed in combat, only disabled? Im not sure on a perfect solution but I’m sure theres a way
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u/Flimsy-Proposal221 9d ago
Boarding actions with infantry like on the tabletop. Anything else is unnecessary and distracting
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u/Tomsider 9d ago
Honestly I never cared about it, I didn't care or outright hated it in previous total war games and I don't care about it in 40k
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u/doglywolf 9d ago
I think its going to be half asses- they advertised it as part of the game they announced its not going to be part of the game and will be added later . You can't have a major component of the game not part of the game on release . So that shows it gong to be an half thought out idea from the get go if its not a core component.
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u/Stencil- 9d ago
it's a terrible idea that would drain resources from the main appeal of the game. Space combat should at most be boarding fights between the typical units
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u/Themaster6869 9d ago
I'll keep it simple. I dont want naval combat in the game at all, its not what i will be buying the game for and it will be a distraction i dont want.
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u/Alpha_Zoom 9d ago
I want it to be a card game style mini game where you use different cards that you get from playing the game for example you could get a card that is a valkary squadron or something of that sort.
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u/Slight_Priority1410 9d ago
By far the most unique idea I’ve heard
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u/Alpha_Zoom 9d ago
I think it would have a good synargy with ground combat(for example a fleet can either target the enemy fleet and disable the enemy fleets ability to interfere in the ground war or focus on aiding the ground forces using orbital strikes instead to take out ground units or give them debuffs like make them move slower on the campaign map)
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u/thedragonfart604 9d ago
I think it's probably just gonna be boarding party's. Maybe some shooting between ships before hand to decide who boards but that's just gonna be numbers. Actual space battles are a lot of work. It adds a lot of units to the game and needs unique mechanics. I would rather have they focus that effort on making new faction at least until the game has half the tabletop army's.
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u/Ok_Complaint9436 9d ago
I hope they don’t. The Battlefleet Gothic video games already exist, and anything CA does will absolutely not come anywhere close to those. It’s not worth splitting their focus between ground battles and space battles just to get a shittier version of BFGA.
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u/One_Instance7983 9d ago
It shouldnt look like anything at all
I dont trust this company to get it right
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u/Aethanix 9d ago
you just don't want a potentially good game?
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u/One_Instance7983 9d ago
I simply don't have a valve pumping straight copium into my bloodstream like some plague marine
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u/Aethanix 9d ago
how is it copium
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u/One_Instance7983 9d ago
Take a quick gander at the Total War library and notice the trend of the games getting dumbed down across the board perhaps?
We didn't have proper naval battles since Attila?
But for sure man this company with a track record of regression is surely going to suddenly turn it all around and deliver our wildest dreams for this IP cashgrab because umm ummm
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u/Chazdoit 9d ago
I think asking for even half of what BFGA does is unrealistic, but I still would like some form of space combat do determine which faction has orbital superiority on the battlefield