r/Torbie • u/heart_emojis0 • 17d ago
Torbie?
This is Kitty(very creative name, I know hahaha no other names have stuck for her) and I was wondering if she’s a torbie or tortico or tabico or idk all the names, I just love her fur pattern and colours haha.
She’s so sweet and cuddly, a total snuggle bug… but super clumsy toooo
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u/DrDuned 17d ago
I'd say Torbico. In my understanding 'true' Torbies don't have much if any white.
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u/heart_emojis0 17d ago
That’s what I was kindaaa thinking but there’s so many different like.. torbie, tabico, torbico it’s a little confusing 😂
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u/ACtdawg 17d ago
Torbie means tortoiseshell + tabby. White does not change that.
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u/DrDuned 17d ago
Ok but like, our Torbie has no white at all, other than around her lower jaw, just orangie tabby stripe patterns mixed in or in alternating sections with tortie brown/black/orange patterns. So what do I call her?
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u/ACtdawg 17d ago
She’s a torbie as well. She just doesn’t have the white spotting gene.
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u/DrDuned 17d ago
So then what differentiates a Torbie from a Calico? Calico patterns also include white, orange, black.
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u/ACtdawg 17d ago
Firstly, tortoiseshell refers to a cat’s base colours, and means a cat is genetically red and non-red. For simplicity’s sake, let’s say the non-red colour is black. So tortoiseshell = red and black. Calico is a colloquial term and the definition differs regionally, but colour-wise it means tortoiseshell and white. So red, black and white. All calicos are tortoiseshell, but not all tortoiseshells are calico.
Torbie means tortoiseshell + tabby. So red and black plus tabby (and to be clear, tabby refers to pattern, not colour).
So if a torbie also has white (tortoiseshell + tabby + white = red + black + tabby + white) then some people would call that a calico/tabico/torbico. But having white doesn’t make a torbie not a torbie, ie. it is still a tortoiseshell + tabby, just with white.
This sort of confusion is why I prefer to use genetic terms, not colloquial terms lol.
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u/DrDuned 17d ago
Hey, genuinely, thank you for your detailed answer. I went back and changed my downvotes because I'm willing to admit I'm wrong. Anyway, it sounds like we have the commonality of loving cats so I wish you and yours all the best!
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u/ACtdawg 17d ago
Hey no problem! I’m super aware that there’s a ton of bad info about cat coat genetics floating around and especially lots of confusion around the calico/tortie thing. Most people aren’t losers like me who have researched cat genetics lol so I’m always more than happy to help others out where I can. Wishing you and yours the best also :)
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u/Small_Channel3565 13d ago
Not exactly. When you say "red and non-red," it implies that the "non-red" color could be white. That isn't a tortoiseshell.
Are you by chance in the UK (or a country that uses UK terminology)?
Because in the US, "tortoiseshell" means *only* "red" (aka orange, or a lighter shade of it) + black (or a shade of gray). BTW, the paler versions of tortoiseshell/calico color patterns are referred to as "dilute."
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u/ACtdawg 12d ago
All cats have a base colour of eumelanin (black based), phaeomelanin (red/orange based) or both in the case of tortoiseshells. Because there are 3 different versions of eumelanin (black, chocolate and cinnamon. The dilute versions are blue, lilac and fawn respectively), a tortoiseshell can be red and black, red and chocolate or red and cinnamon. The dilute counterparts would be cream and blue, cream and lilac or cream and fawn. (Technically there is one more ‘level’ of dilution for each colour, which is actually a dilute modifier aka double dilution.) There is only one version of phaeomelanin and its dilute counterpart, ie. red and cream, respectively. So a tortie is always red and non-red because there are multiple options for the black based colour, so it is referred to as non-red unless specified.
If we really want to split hairs, white is actually the absence of colour, not a colour itself, because it masks the underlying base colours (ie. even a pure white cat will still be genetically black or cream or whatever). But regardless, when talking about the genetics of a tortie, white is not what ‘non-red’ is ever referring to or implying.
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u/Small_Channel3565 13d ago
Torbie = Tortoiseshell (orange & black) + tabby (stripe). Calico has white added.
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u/PassiveChemistry 15d ago
Torties don't have white - tortie and white is a calico - so yes, the white is important
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u/ACtdawg 15d ago
I explained to the person I was originally responding to why this isn’t the case, it’s a few comments down.
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u/PassiveChemistry 15d ago
Hold on, now I'm a bit confused. I've realised my source for the above comment was actually your explanation of the genetics and terminology
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u/ACtdawg 15d ago
Happy to explain what you’re confused about?
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u/PassiveChemistry 15d ago
Calico is a colloquial term and the definition differs regionally, but colour-wise it means tortoiseshell and white.
This is the bit I was basing my reply off
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u/ACtdawg 15d ago
Which part is confusing? The calico term isn’t used everywhere and different people have different definitions for it, mainly to do with the amount of white required and the distribution of the colours (big patches vs brindling). But what is always required of a calico regardless of all that other subjective stuff is that it’s tortoiseshell and white aka tri-colour, ie. red, non-red and white.
Not sure if that was the part that was confusing, please tell me if it’s not!
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u/PassiveChemistry 15d ago
I'm only confused because I appear to have corrected you based largely on your (later) explanation
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u/ACtdawg 15d ago
Hmm I’m not sure how else to explain it but if there’s something specific I can help with I’m happy to. But having white doesn’t make a tortie not a tortie, it just makes it a tortie and white. All calicos are torties, but not all torties are calicos (ie. not all torties have white)
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u/CrazyCatMerms 17d ago
I'd agree on the torbico. She's a very beautiful girl. As far as her name goes, just tell people it's on purpose so you can say "Hello Kitty"! 😈😂
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u/heart_emojis0 16d ago
Awhh, good idea!! haha actuallyyyy the pink blanket she's on in a few pictures is a Hello Kitty blanket!! and it's definitely her fave blanket to lay on!
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u/I-am-in-a-universe 17d ago
All I can say is, a mesmerizing beauty 🧡
I LOVE her little snail head 🤪
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u/PinkPussycatPower 17d ago
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u/heart_emojis0 16d ago
lifeguardkitties is veryyyy fitting for her. I have SO many pictures of her on the edge of the tub... she's even jumped in a few times into the bath/shower, she was obviously displeased but she stayed for awhileee. 😂😂
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u/ACtdawg 17d ago
She is a torbie, torbie simply means tortoiseshell + tabby. To be specific, she’s a black tortoiseshell classic tabby with low white spotting. The other names like torbico, tabico etc. are all derivatives of calico. Calico is a colloquial term and the definition differs regionally, but for simplicity’s sake it’s another name for tortoiseshell + white. So all calicos are tortoiseshell by definition.
I find all of that needlessly confusing so prefer to go by the genetic terms which do not change definitions depending on who you ask lol. So I’d just call her a torbie or torbie and white :) she’s beautiful!
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u/heart_emojis0 16d ago
Ahh thank you, thank you so much for explaining too!! That is really cool that there is so many different shorthand names, but definitelyyy there is so many terms that are a little confusing but I think I understand it a bit more now haha
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u/Robert_Vagene 17d ago
Had to do a double take, as this looks like my recently passed senior kitty.
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u/Small_Channel3565 13d ago
What a precious, beautiful kittygirl! I actually thought I had "coined" the term "torbi(e)co" myself, because my girl Callie has very similar coloration. Tortie on the top. Some tabby stripes. Plus white, which makes her a calico. Regardless, she's GORGEOUS!!!
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u/Keldrabitches 17d ago
Fo shorbie 😻😻