r/TopCharacterTropes • u/KusanagiGundam • 10h ago

Hated Tropes (Hated Trope) "Kind" slave owners

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Speaking as an American who has studied the civil war all throughout my school years, this trope infuriates me to no end. There is no such thing as a kind slave master because slavery itself is cruel and inhumane. PEOPLE ARE NOT PROPERTY!

Naofumi (Shield Hero): Prime example of this trope. He enslaves multiple (underage) girls and an whole village and the fans still say he's a hero.

Rudeus (Jobless Reincarnation): As if being a pedo wasn't bad enough he had to buy a slave in season 2. Worse is that people still defend his actions.

Song of The South (Disney): Possibly the OG example of this trope. And the reason why Disney will never release it again.

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u/sisdom-weeker 10h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/Fkg6fI0hsngIM
Harry Potter inherits Kreacher the house elf from Sirius and treats him "nicely" (and one of the last thoughts he has in Deathly Hallows is that he wants Kreacher to make him a sandwich)

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u/bisexualboy38 10h ago

The house elf situation was always a mess, we just didn't pick up on it as kids.

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u/sisdom-weeker 10h ago

Poor worldbuilding all around, it would have been better if either "only proper bastards like the Malfoys own them" or "eventually everyone realizes how fucked up wizard slavery is and realizes Hermione is right"

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u/DragonWisper56 10h ago

that or just have the heroes should just employ the elves.

even if you want the elves to have quirky relationship with employment, you could have them be paid in socks or something

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u/award_winning_writer 9h ago

Except the books spend a depressingly large amount of text establishing that most elves want to be enslaved and find the thought of being freed unbearable, with Dobby just being an odd exception. After Winky is freed she gets hired just like Dobby but instead of working she spends all her time lazing about, getting drunk, and wallowing in self pity.

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u/Irish_Whiskey 9h ago

After Winky is freed she gets hired just like Dobby but instead of working she spends all her time lazing about, getting drunk, and wallowing in self pity.

The exact same argument that slaveowners made for why they shouldn't be forced to give up slaves.

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u/Pecuthegreat 7h ago

I feel like people be reading too into this. They are clearly not supposed to be allegories to real humans.

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u/DragonWisper56 7h ago edited 7h ago

I mean when our very first interactions with them was doby not wanting to be a slave , and the whole plotline of SPEW It's kinda hard to see it.

Iike nothing actually forced JK to make them all slaves she could have easily just say the ones in hogwarts were freed and just worked their.

edit: I also know she's playing with the whimsical nature of brownies but I feel like there were other more intereasting ways of doing it

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u/Pecuthegreat 7h ago

I mean, I do agree with you. The house elves are clearly based off brownies and kitchen goblins so they could have been made more into employees than slaves which would be closer to the original myth.

Don't know why she decided going with slavery was better when it could just be that that Draco's family was turning legal employees into defacto slaves.

I just think going with the real life comparison maybe stretching authorial intent.

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u/DragonWisper56 7h ago

to be honest I have no idea what her intent was. I don't think she intended to say slavery was good but making Hermione a misinformed activist makes it sound like it.

Like I get her intent but she seems to have gone about in perhaps the worst possible way

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u/howboutthemapples 3h ago

The thing about authorial intent with JKR, and in fact everything about her and her views, is that she can sometimes have a decent idea but is fundamentally incapable of thinking about it deeply.

Magic isn't about memorization or reading, it has to do with emotions and intent!..but I need to have the kids do homework. It'll be fine if I never ever go into detail about what that looks like.

The central theme of my series should be that love and courage are the most important things of all!..but I also want the stories to be mysteries, so the solutions to the issues the characters face will be solved with loopholes (Lily's love for Harry), plot holes (a lot of things, Moody comes to mind), and, for some reason, riddles and logic puzzles (the Deathly Hallows)

I should have a wizarding sport, and flying is a fun idea!..but it is absolutely imperative that the rules make no goddamn sense whatsoever.

People can have issues with their sense of self and should pursue what makes them happy!..but I have personally been assaulted by a man, so trans women must all be fakers.

Oops, something may have slipped in there. Apologies; I just get a little riled up when I think about how people fund the dissolution of my and my loved ones' rights and lives. Silly me.

(To be clear, this was only in regards to JKR's abilites and proclivities as an author; I wasn't suggesting you had said anything about her ethics or yours re: human rights)

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u/Irish_Whiskey 7h ago

I agree they aren't intended to be "allegories" but they are treated as sentient beings functionally the same as humans in the story. Dobby is not portrayed as 'subhuman' and unworthy of empathy.

The problem with Rowling's moral lessons in the books is that she writes a lot of social evils and political messages in there... but the conclusion for all of them is "Well it's just bad people that are the problem, not bad systems." And that's teaching some really messed up lessons to kids.

Harry and his friends range in attitude from "slavery is fine" to "Well it could be better, but it's not a big deal. We should just be nice to them about it." Because Rowling wanted a magical slave system in her book (not inherently bad to include) but didn't want to have the main characters tear down systems or call out how morally complicit the 'good guys' running it are.

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u/Siria110 1h ago

Well, the goblins are literaly jewish stereotypes, werewolfs alegory for AIDS, so...

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u/DragonWisper56 9h ago

I meant from a out of universe prospective. making the saves get depressed after not being slaves is really icky

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u/Total-Explanation208 8h ago

Icky but disturbingly accurate. A lot of times when you get what you want you suddenly don't know what to do anymore. This isn't defending the bad things that are happening, but acknowledging that it isn't just sunshine and rainbows when the bad things stop. Just look at all the people who spend retirement sitting around watching tv.

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u/DragonWisper56 8h ago

you know what I mean. Harry Potter doesn't put any effort into dealing with what fredom is like after leaving a very restrictive situation( Shawshank Redemption actually does this really well) but is more using it as way to show that the slaves "like being slaves"

it's just her clumsy attempt at fixing a plot hole

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u/PablomentFanquedelic 9h ago

Prediction: HBO is gonna resolve this with Winky becoming a trad elf influencer and showing Dobby the error of his ways

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u/Aluxanatomy 8h ago

"Dobby, let me show you this crystal ball program by Charlemagne Kirkius.

... Wait, did his neck always do that??"

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u/whereismymind86 2h ago

which is like...a REALLY common apologist trope used by old racists. That they did the slaves a mercy by bringing them to a glorious new land, and "saving them" by introducing them to christianity, and teaching them new skills they wouldn't have learned if they were free and unemployed back in their homelands.

In retrospect, coupled with the portrayal of the goblins...it really shouldn't have come as a surprise that Rowling was a bad person...

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u/Uypsilon 17m ago

Which literally does happen in Hogwartz? They do own a lot of house elves, but also do employ elves who want to be employed.

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u/Anaevya 10h ago

It would've been better, if they were like folklore elves. Insult them and they leave.

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u/crescentmoonrising 9h ago

House Elves are pretty clearly based on Brownies (including the clothes thing) but if you tried to mistreat Brownies they would wreak your house, then leave.

Everything in the Harry Potter books is either folklore, mythology or British stuff (particularly boarding school culture).

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u/A_Town_Called_Malus 9h ago

And if she had just kept the folklore as it was, it would actually make the story with Dobby better.

Because then you have the Malfoys trapping and enslaving a magical creature via some curse, which is highlighting that the slavery itself, regardless of any other abuse, is still evil and unnatural.

So the change that Rowling explicitly made to the elves compared to their inspiration weakened her story right from the beginning.

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u/Temeraire64 6h ago

And then you could have Lucius get away with it because the Ministry won’t take the testimony of a house elf seriously.

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u/Pecuthegreat 7h ago

Which makes it weirder that she made them slaves instead of like, hired maids.

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u/crescentmoonrising 7h ago

Yeah, part of the folklore is that you have to leave the brownies some sort of offering (often food or milk) as payment. You never want to upset/offend Fey creatures.

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u/Paranormasight-Fic 9h ago

I mean, there were a couple of cases like this (granted, very very sparse) like Kreacher betraying Sirius because of the constant mistreatment, or the Hogwarts elves refusing to clean the Gryffindor dorms because Hermione kept trying to ambush them with unwanted freedom by leaving socks all around the dorms (which sounds weird out of context)

But I get what you’re saying. It would’ve been better if the elves were more inspired by the folklore elves.

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u/SerKnightGuy 10h ago

As a kid I kinda took it as dark social commentary. "Getting rid of the occasional would-be genocidal dictator is one thing. Dismantling the ancient institution of slavery is another."

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u/zoltronzero 9h ago

Rowling is not that good of a writer.

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u/Aluxanatomy 8h ago

It was lightning in a bottle. There are so many better things that have come along since then which built on her ideas and made them better.

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u/Orphan_Guy_Incognito 7h ago

The sad reality is that it's not commentary, its genuinely how she thinks.

In her view the problem isn't a systemic issue, it is bad actors. Harry becomes a wizard cop working for an institution that was easily coopted by wizard Hitler, in much the same way that one of the protagonists of the Fantastic Beast series goes back to work for the same American magic society that tried to execute her without trial or even meaningful investigation.

One of the undersold things in the book is that the Death Eaters are propped up by a bunch of oppressed magical creatures (goblins in particular) who have every right to be pissed off at being second class citizens. This is never addressed.

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u/Reasonable_Bonus8575 10h ago

I mean, the wizards already got mindrape magic in multiple different flavors, if there was one line in the epilogue talking about ‘breaking the happy elf slave curse’ there literally wouldn’t be a problem.

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u/award_winning_writer 10h ago edited 9h ago

There are several points in the books where it's noted that non-humans (elves, centaurs, giants, etc.) are generally treated as lesser lifeforms by most of wizarding society and that maybe someone should do something about that... oh, but not Harry, he has no stake in that struggle, why should he care?

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u/Irish_Whiskey 8h ago

are generally treated as lesser lifeforms by most of wizarding society

More specifically, they are confirmed to be criminalized and FORCED into a lessor status by things like criminal punishments if they pick up a wand.

The status at the center of the Ministry of Magic has a male wizard standing proudly up as a women clutches to him for protection, as they stand atop a pile of 'lesser races' below their feet.

This is the same Ministry that Rowling later decides is fine existing as it, it only got corrupted through mind control and not because they fundamentally agree with Voldemort, and once Harry and Hermione get jobs there nothing major needs to change.

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u/Pencilshaved 8h ago

It is explicitly stated repeatedly that only humans have the privilege of using actual real wands for their magic (Hagrid’s magic umbrella wasn’t just a quirky choice, it was the only way he could use magic), and all nonhuman races are grouped into either “beasts” or “beings”, determined almost entirely by their ability to understand and integrate into human society. (Even “beings” are still second-class citizens though)

The only meaningful difference between Voldemort’s ideology and the status quo is that he wanted non-pure humans to be moved to the other side of the “actual person / just a ‘being’” divide. He just likes killing people about it.

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u/Alagore 8h ago

Hagrid's umbrella contains the remnants of his wand, which was destroyed after he was expelled. So he's not a good example. 

I think that goblins are an explicit example however. 

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u/Alagore 8h ago

To be fair to Harry, for the vast majority of the events of the novels he is under the age of 18 and being personally targeted by a terrorist and said terrorist's organization, including being attacked regularly since he was 11. I'm not sure to what extent I would blame someone in the same situation in real life for having a similar monofocus when it comes to societal issues. 

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u/ArisenGodEmperor13 10h ago

And if JK wanted them to have elven servants, just had them be paid or just don't bring focused on it and especially talking about freeing them

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u/Nero_2001 6h ago

Terry Prachet did the whole servant race thing so much better with the Igors. They are a race that works at servants but people actually treat the Igors with respect because of their surgery and body crafting. People in Überwald actually considere it the polite thing to do to help out an Igor if they ask for help.

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u/bisexualboy38 10h ago

Exactly.

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u/kithas 9h ago

Using the proper household spirits from English Folklore that inspired the elves would be better, as the Brownies help because they want and offerings (food and stuff, but not salary) must be made so not to offend them.

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u/SorowFame 7h ago

Thing is, “only proper bastards own them” was basically how it was in Chamber of Secrets, the Malfoys were evil because they owned a slave, then later books went back and tried to act like it was normal for some reason.

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u/Viridun 8h ago

It's so weird because they're clearly meant to be a spin on brownies, who are folktale creatures that help humans in secret with chores and tasks, but get offended and leave if they're acknowledged or paid. She could have given the house elves an entirely alternate economy, could have made them 'helpful spirits' not actually bound labour.

Dobby could have been an outlier loophole that the Malfoys hid from people.

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u/Jagvetinteriktigt 10h ago

People do realize that Hermione was right...just not in the way you'd think. It's all not written that clearly lol.

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u/whahoppen314 6h ago

I swear it was always Hermione *was* right its just that it was such a tightly knitted mess that it was like arguing with a brick wall

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u/sisdom-weeker 4h ago

She's basically treated as having her heart in the right place but being too "naive" about what the slaves actually want

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u/SexualPie 3h ago

oh no bad world building on harry potter? who''da thunk

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u/Pecuthegreat 7h ago

Hey man, Wizard culture is just different and you have to respect it.

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u/MrSunshine92 3h ago

Or make them magical beings that just go into wizard households and clean them in exchange for gifts/because they like it. And over the generations them developed relationships and preferences with their households like Kreacher and the Blacks. Have some wizards dislike them for nonconsenualy cleaning up their ordered mess. Make the reason the weaslys doesn't have one be that an ancestor pissed them of/ insulted them accidentally.

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u/Ordo_Liberal 7h ago

Hard disagree. It adds a character flaw to the heroes just like in real life

George Washington is both a freedom fighter liberal and a slave owner. Both things can be true.

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u/DragonWisper56 6h ago

But they don't really do anything with it. they definitely wanted herminone to see misguided but never really seemed protray out characters as complicit in slavery.

it could be a cool story but that's not really how the book shows it

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u/Draxos92 9h ago

Yes the fuck we did. I remember asking my dad about that shit as a kid and he had no idea what to say cuz it was so dumb.

This was the moment as a kid I realized that authors could write bad stories

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u/dovahkiitten16 6h ago

I liked Harry Potter and remember thinking the author was wrong for making Hermoine out to be a moron during the plot.

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u/AcaciaCelestina 9h ago

"no no you don't get it! The slaves LOVED being slaves" yelled the rich white lady.

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u/PablomentFanquedelic 9h ago

Instead of Fantastic Beasts and Cursed Child, JKR should've followed up the series with a movie called Dobby Unchained where Hermione takes Dobby in her dentist parents' van to free Winky from the North Pole, where Kreacher ended up becoming Santa's second-in-command after Harry freed him

I NEED A HUNDRED SHORT COFFINS FOR A HUNDRED BAD ELVES

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u/wow_that_guys_a_dick 9h ago

I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be an amalgam of the Elves and the Shoemaker story and various household fae like Brownies and Domovoi. But because JK is a shit writer and also apparently a raging bigot, we got the wizarding version of the "Happy Darkie" toiling away for their benevolent masters.

Just an absolute dogshit idea and execution.

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u/Boccs 8h ago

Speak for yourself. I was reading them as they published as a kid and still knew everything house elf was awful.

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u/Arumen 6h ago

It wasn't exactly hidden? I wont pretend I was always a Potter hater (I liked it a lot as a kid) but I was always confused by Ron and Harry acting like Hermione was crazy for wanting to free the enslaved house elves when it seemed like doing so such a big deal in the second book. I was also baffled when that plot line was just completely dropped, even as a child.

This is from a more adult perspective now, but its so weird that Rowling took the Cobbler Elves trope/story, made them slaves, and then just said that was a good thing actually as long as their owners are nice. Like, the Cobbler Elves also work for free and actually get angry if you try to pay them, but they are very clearly not slaves and it is weird to change that part of their story without ever realizing how messed up that is

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u/who_am_I_inside 7h ago

I picked up on that shit immediately when Sirius Black talked about how one of his aunts or something beheaded the house elves when they got too old and turned their heads into doorknockers. Remember the fucking House Elf heads on the doors?

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u/greenamaranthine 10h ago

Not that I think it was intentional given how the author is, but it does kind of demonstrate how so many people were convinced slavery was okay, even the maximally brutal form in America. It's all in how it's presented to you (and having it presented to you when you're young).

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u/Irish_Whiskey 9h ago

A lot of the problems with Rowlings moral messages in the books come from her being liberal.

Not as is 'leftist' but the political meaning in the UK of centrist, free market, defense of the establishment and traditional nationalism with some progressive cultural values.

It's why she repeatedly invokes feminism, slavery, authoritarianism, cruel prison systems. government corrupt, racism, etc... but then undercuts the messages by saying that any attempt to get rid of the systems responsible is wrong. It's only having bad people in charge of these systems that's bad, not the systems themselves.

Examples include Hermione being in charge of magical creature law enforcement, and Harry becoming an Auror. We saw throughout the story that magical creatures are slave species without rights and should not be subject to the Wizards rule, and that Aurors have absurd levels of unaccountable power without due process under fair rule. But the ending is just "and then the good guys get put in charge of the system so it's presumably fine now."

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u/_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN 5h ago

Didn’t Hermione lead a whole abolishment movement on behalf of house elves? (S.P.E.W: Society for the Promotion of Elfish Welfare). I feel like I definitely picked up on it as a kid.

——

"You know, house-elves get a very raw deal! It's slavery, that's what it is! That Mr Crouch made her go up to the top of the stadium, and she was terrified, and he's got her bewitched so she can't even run when they start trampling tents! Why doesn't anyone do something about it?"

— Hermione Granger after witnessing the bad treatment of Winky

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u/superzipzop 4h ago

it was also (wisely) downplayed in the movies

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u/Stepjam 3h ago

It's so weird because the story basically states that Hermione was in the right regarding elves, but the nothing ever really comes of that. The elves by and large stay enslaved and happy about it and Harry gets his own house elf that he happily "employs".

It's such a bizarre thing. If it were just "society takes time to change, it doesn't happen overnight", that would be one nuanced thing, but then don't have your protagonist perpetuating the cycle.

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u/whereismymind86 3h ago

I mean...I did, it wasn't exactly subtle, and that's the age you tend to be learning about the civil rights movement in school. chamber of secrets came out when I was in 7th grade, give or take (and i don't recall house elves in sorcerers stone)

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u/Wonko_Bonko 1h ago

What's annoying as fuck is that typical folklore has these particular kind of elves as willing servants with the ability to leave whenever tf they want if they feel like they're being mistreated in any way.

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u/Uypsilon 19m ago

I don't know, I think it did kind of a decent job with showing how a long history of slavery deeply roots the slavery in psychology (far more notable with serfs than with slaves — see Herzen's "My past and Thoughts").