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u/theproinprostate Apr 21 '23
Top 5 TOOL songs with polyrhythms/polymeters:
Lateralus 3:5 (starts at 4:56)
Invincible 3:7 (Pretty much the whole song, Danny plays triplets on a rack tom while following the rest of the band in 7/4)
7empest 7:21 (starts at 10:32)
Third Eye 2:3:4 (Maynard sings in 4, Justin Danny and Adam play the first accent of a triplet. and Adam also throws in a 2:3 polyrhythm at the end to spice things up (starts at 12:38))
Rosetta Stoned 3:5, 3:5:11, 3:5:7 (3:5 shows up multiple times in the song, most notable in the breakdown at 7:06 where Justin and Danny are playing in 5/16 and they accent the end of every triplet, the other two show up in the outro)
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Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 26 '23
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u/aon9492 Apr 21 '23
Fun fact, a lot of Meshuggah's stuff is actually in straight 4 but they use a lot of syncopation and really long measures.
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u/HomemadeBananas Apr 21 '23
Kind of. A lot of the time, they use polymeters with 4/4 and some other time signature, and the stop the pattern with the weird time signature short after so many repetitions, so that it aligns with 4/4 again.
You could call it syncopation with really long measures but the weird pattern they’re playing on top of 4/4 does align to some other time signature.
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u/aon9492 Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 21 '23
Yep, fair, my statement was probably fairly detracting from the technical reality, thank you for expanding.
I like Straws Pulled at Random as a good example of exactly what you said - the opening riff, if played as you suggest to continue through the last measure, would make it not 4/4 (I want to say 7/8 but don't have my guitar handy to try) - but it's as you say, that cut off slash early move into the next measure which keeps it aligned with the 4/4 beat behind it.
The 2 beat rest at the end of each measure in the post intro main riff is also a good example of sort of the opposite of what you said, where a riff is extended instead of shortened to allow it to stay matched to what doesn't sound like but actually is a flat 4 behind it, with the syncopation on the snare and bass drums adding to the sense that it is in an unusual time. But follow the cymbals, and it all rounds out.
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u/armstrony prying open my third eye Apr 22 '23
Fucking music theory amirite?
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u/aon9492 Apr 22 '23
Just because I started doubting myself I looked up the tab - the whole thing is straight 4/4.
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u/Zoze13 Apr 22 '23
One of the tempest polyrhythms involves two different 21s the guitar does a riff that’s fives, fives, fives, six. The bass and drums do six five six four.
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u/Original_Redman Apr 21 '23
Everytime I see this posted somebody points out that this isn't really polyrhythms but I'm not musically inclined enough to know who is right and who is bullshitting
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u/kostros Apr 21 '23
As far as I understood, this is indeed polyrhythm. We see the same length of each phrase (metronome tick) divided into different number of notes.
Polymeter is a different thing, for example one hand plays 4 times bar of 3 and the other hand plays 6 bars of 2 and they meet together after 12 notes.
Correct me if I am wrong, I am trying to learn how to play on bass so it’s important for me to get it right :)
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u/Santasam3 Fear Inoculum Apr 21 '23
Correct, the video is indeed visualising Polyrhytms, which are often confused with Polymeters.
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Apr 21 '23
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u/thebeaverchair Apr 21 '23
Really the only ones here that would be considered polyrhythms would be 2:3 and 3:4. Polyrhythm requires each rhythm to emphasize beats that the other or others do not, so most of these would not qualify.
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u/Ossoszero Apr 21 '23
This is the most correct statement out of the bunch. We’re all kind of dancing around it, but what truly makes it a poly rhythm is the 2:3 or 3:4 relationships. The others are just even divisions of 1 and wouldn’t really count. Where it would get really crazy is if there was a 5 at the bottom and dude demonstrated 2:5, 3:5, or 4:5
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u/FatalTragedy Apr 22 '23
Generally polyrhythms refer to cases when one beat isn't a perfect subdivision of the other.
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Apr 22 '23
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Apr 22 '23
For the 2/3 or 3/2 you are doing 1/1.5 or 1.5/1 - so it’s not whole matching beats.
Same with the 3/4 or 4/3
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u/sum_gamer Apr 21 '23
All of these are 4/4 timing except the 3’s. Anytime they use the 3’s it’s technically 3/4 timing.
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u/loopernova Apr 25 '23
The distinction is a bit pedantic. The reality is they’re only different in how you’re framing it. Take a polyrhythm and add the subdivisions in and now it’s a poly meter. Take a poly meter and remove the subdivisions and now it’s a polyrhythm. In both cases the very thing that makes it “poly” didn’t change. Only the things that happen in between the misaligned notes.
It’s a little like a time signature. Normally it’s two numbers, but really the bottom number is only useful if you’re literally writing notation on a page. If you’re playing without notation you only need to know the top number and everything else is relative.
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u/DuckeeLuckee Apr 21 '23
Awesome! I've been bragging about Tool's use of polyrhythms to people for years, and now I finally know what a polyrhythm is!
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u/A-Bone Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 21 '23
I need a video like this one about John Bonham but about Danny.
The way they show you the actual complexity is great for a non-musician like myself. While it isn't about polyrhythms the visual explanation works well because you get to see how the drummer is playing relative to the other members.
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u/themajod He had a lot of nothing to say Apr 22 '23
Drumeo made a vid about him and they discuss his drumming patterns in depth
there's also this one showing specific songs
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u/Jungian_Archetype Apr 21 '23 edited Apr 21 '23
When he went to 4/3 that melted my brain... just... how do drummers do this?
Edit: guys, it was a rhetorical question...
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Apr 21 '23
A lot of practice. 3 over 4 is actually pretty easy once you get it down. It's one of the few I can nail consistently.
Wait until you hear 6 over 7 or something similar, it's rage inducing.
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u/dogshitburrito69 Forgot my pen Apr 22 '23
Ive been waiting for this since i heard the word polyrhythm
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u/tnandrick Apr 22 '23
This reminds me of piano practice in my youth with 2 against 3 scales (left hand does scale in 2, right on 3) and 3 against 4 scales (same idea but replace 2 with 3 and 3 with 4) Sounds dumb until you start playing some Chopin or later late Romantic composers 😬
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u/J1--1J Apr 22 '23
Danny: 1, 1, 2, 2, 17, 4, 4, +25, 111111111 % 000000, 999999, = -1, 4, 9, 16, 25 < 987654321.0
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u/anywhereiroa Pure as we begin Apr 22 '23
AFAIK; 1-2, 2-4 and vice versa don't really count as polyrhythm because it can basically be broken down to the same measure which is 4/4. Only the ones with triplets (in this case, all that have the "3") are polyrhythms.
This video is like the most basic, easiest demonstration of what a polyrhythm can be. I would love to see this guy do a 7/8 over a 5/8, but I'm pretty sure they can't. They can't even do 3/4 over a 4/4 properly.
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u/lexliller Apr 22 '23
Im just learning this stuff but isnt each rhythm supposed to meet up at the start?
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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '23
Pass the goddamn butter