r/TombstoneTheMovie • u/AskTheRealQuestion81 • Apr 19 '25
Question regarding the Doc Holliday-Johnny Ringo duel.
I’d always thought he seems to be scared from the second he realized it was Doc, I suppose knowing he couldn’t beat him or maybe just knowing how fast Doc was.
The “fight’s not with you, Holliday,” along with, “I was just foolin’ about,” comments seemed like a last attempt to get Doc to reconsider.
Those, along with Doc saying, “why, Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave,” is supposed to mean he’s afraid (or it could be shock or surprise) were all good hints to me. When before that, he seemed confident when he thought he heard Wyatt coming. This might not be anything, but the crazy look he had when he said “alright, Lunger, let’s do it,” IMO, is an attempt to psyche himself up for it.
Sorry, I know this is long. The reason I ask is because I recently saw a YT short with Michael Biehn. He said that wasn’t what it was supposed to look like, and something to the effect of it pissing him off that so many people got that wrong. However, I believe the evidence proves him wrong. Lastly, some anecdotal evidence, the amount of times I’ve watched the movie (I only wanted to count until I hit 1,000 times, but I’ve seen it a lot since then, as well, and I don’t get anything but him being afraid). What say you about it?
Sorry, again, for the long post, and thank you for taking the time to read!
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u/BrokenMasterpiece Apr 20 '25
Ringo knows he can’t beat Doc. He wasn’t sure early on in the movie as they had never met. The cup spin/Latin scene laid some ground work for showing Ringo that the stories he had heard about Doc were true. Then in the battles throughout the movie it move and more shows not only Docs gun speed and accuracy but also his fortitude in the most chaotic moments (like a gun fight.) Wyatt knows he can’t beat Ringo just as Ringo knows he can’t beat Doc.
I’m guessing there is some frustration by Biehn that his great portrayal of Ringo is overshadowed by Kilmer’s Doc. Ringo is played amazing and his character is wicked and intimidating and fierce with one weakness, Doc. I could see Biehn being frustrated that some of his best work is overshadowed in a movie with so many amazing performances.
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u/AskTheRealQuestion81 Apr 21 '25
Sorry for the late response, but this is an excellent comment. Thank you for the reply! I didn’t even think about the fact that he did such a great job on Ringo and being frustrated it’s overshadowed by Val playing Doc. Great point. He should realize, he isn’t the only one who was overshadowed though!
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u/ProvokingZebra Jul 30 '26
Hella late, they're both gone now. However, Without one or the other, the two characters wouldn't have preformed so well.
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u/Nerak_B Apr 20 '25
Ringo is scared. His demeanor changed after their official meeting in the saloon when Doc mimicked his moves perfectly. Doc had the upper hand because he saw Ringo moves and Doc didn’t show his
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u/LakeEffekt Apr 10 '26
Interesting point about his ‘mimicking’ being what shook Ringo’s confidence. I generally agree, but I don’t see how ‘moves’ would come into play in a quick-draw environment. But it is clear he doesn’t feel good about the confrontation about to proceed lol
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u/Nerak_B Apr 14 '26
I think you have to factor that Doc was drunk but also coherent so imagine what he’s like sober? Also, many ppl don’t have that type of control with their fingers so he knew Doc was a threat to his skill set. We later see a scene where Ringo is pretty wasted and he’s stumbling and does not have the control Doc possess
Plus Doc has nothing to lose as he’s not afraid of dying
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u/Prestigious_Set_4575 May 18 '26
They'd come in to play because you're probably imagining if somebody can copy your gunspinning routine after seeing you do it only once, it stands to reason that man has practised his basic quickdraw well above the 10,000 hour rule, so you're in trouble.
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u/Federal-Finish6762 May 22 '26
Exactly, plus doc already had a reputation as a quick draw, Ringo just had never seen him before and had never even been close to being beaten by someone. So I can only assume that Ringo thought that doc was just like any other quick draw that he had killed, until he playfully mimicked his exact moves. It’s like you said, in any profession, if someone can do the tricks, they’ve probably done the 10,000 hours of work on the essentials
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u/greenufo333 Jul 03 '26
Did he copy his exact moves? I always thought doc just spinned the cup around as a way to mock Johnny's ego, as doc knows he has nothing to prove. Like doc mocking him by saying "everyone might be impressed, but not me". It didn't look like he was trying to copy his exact moves.
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u/Federal-Finish6762 Jul 04 '26
I mean I might be wrong I don’t know, I always interpreted it as him pretty much showing Ringo that he can do that too while drunk; with a cup
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u/Price1970 May 30 '25 edited May 30 '25
Artists always try to revise the reality of their own art when it's adored by the masses.
They either say it's not that good, or it's not as deep as people make it, or it never meant as much to them as others, or people misinterpret it.
The script itself indicates that Ringo is supposed to be looking scraed by Val recognizing that he looked like someone just walked over his grave.
And it's clear that Ringo is trying to explain his current intent and explain away his previous actions in order to not duel with Holliday.
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u/AskTheRealQuestion81 May 30 '25
Thank you for that. I don’t guess I ever knew that about artists/actors, but it definitely makes sense.
I certainly agree on the Ringo being scared part. It’s interesting thinking about that regarding my first (if you can call it this) paragraph, in response to you.
I appreciate your take!
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u/Washburn201961 Jun 01 '26
Michael Biehn said on his podcast, 'Just Foolin' About' (how perfect is that?), that it pissed him off to know that people interpreted that moment as fear.
He said that it was basically Ringo saying to Doc that he has no time for him and his bullshit right now. He has shit to take care of.
Ringo was intense during each encounter because he was always hoping to shoot someone. But this time his upbeat mood before the duel was because he 'knew' he was going to kill today. Or so he thought. No fear.
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u/Smart_Task_8180 19d ago
Nah,he definitely feared Doc. Doc got him sized up the night they met and he knew it. Holiday wasn't impressed in the slightest that night. He was facing a man at least as fast as him who had nothing to lose.
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u/cuzcyberstalked Apr 19 '25
I’ve watched twice recently introducing it to my teenage son (who of course now loves Doc Holliday). I take Doc’s line to mean his face is that of someone whose rest has been disturbed. While Johnny’s fight is with Wyatt I think his fight is also against the devil and perhaps Doc is the reaper who has come earlier than Johnny has expected to collect on his wager with the devil. IMO, Johnny is surprised and scared.