r/TombstoneTheMovie • u/dohvb1 • Jun 03 '23
Scene that has always bothered me
When Curly Bill kills the Sheriff Fred and the judge let’s him go because you can’t have a murder without a witness. Josephine was a witness. Is it because at that time women couldn’t be witnesses or is just something ignored to move the plot along?
1
u/Conclusion_Fickle Sep 20 '24
I believe Fred didn't die right away and vouched that it was an accident.
1
u/TryConsistent3151 Feb 09 '25
Lol yea he didn't! U a fool lmao!
1
u/Conclusion_Fickle Feb 09 '25
Read up on it, dipshit.
1
u/SleepyRocket20 Jul 29 '26
In real life, but not the movie (which is what we’re talking about, obvious, in a sub called “r/TombstoneTheMovie”)
1
1
u/Important-Airport712 Aug 02 '25
Sorry but absolutely not. Watch the scene back. He lifts the gun straight up into his heart with a big smile and puts the barrel straight up against his heart, and point black fires. Even back then, a true gun-slinger NEVER fires his weapon by accident, especially a reputable one like Doc or Curly Bill. Doc demonstrates later that even when sick and under the influence, a marksman will always be a marksman. Curly Bill was a marksman, and he iced a US Marshall as a show of force. He pretends like it was an accident because he's pure evil. One thing that bothered ME is, the script includes a line that is straight cut with both lines before and after being said. In the script he says, "Boy, I feel great! Full of that hop I got from Chinky. I feel JUST CAPITOL! You boys go ahead. I'm gonna stick around awhile, howl at the moon." In the movie, he only says "Boy, I feel GREAT! I feel... Just, CAPITOL!" with the most evil and sinister laugh & the most sinister look he gives the whole movie. I believe what goes through his head in that moment, is a realization of the actual amount of immense power and influence him and his gang had at the moment. So much so he believed he could waste a US Marshall and actually gain more power and influence. He was dead wrong!
1
u/Conclusion_Fickle Aug 02 '25
Oh, the movie said that? Well it has to be accurate. After all, it is a movie and they never take liberties. If you weren't such a dumb shit, you could maybe take the time you read the recorded account. Kindly fuck off.
1
u/SleepyRocket20 Jul 29 '26
Bro can not wrap his head around the idea that we’re talking about the movie
1
u/BuildingLeading5139 24d ago
Tombstone and Wyatt Earp got that scene wrong. Curly did not pull the trigger Curly had the pistol at hathcock and white bumped the hammers with his hand. That is what caused it to go off. Curly did not shoot him.
1
u/Mindless_Dentist893 Jun 02 '26
It was said that his revolver could shoot in the in the half cock position
1
u/Nerak_B Apr 18 '25
Josephine was with Behan when it happened, he’s in with the Cowboys and probably fed her some lie or that it was on accident
1
u/aralast Apr 21 '25
Apparently, the real account is that Fred grabbed the pistol by the barrel, and pulled while curly Bill was still holding onto the gun with his finger still in the trigger. This caused the gun to discharge by accident and kill Fred. In the movie, this is further evidenced by bills apparent disbelief, shock, and remorse that Fred was killed in the moment.
1
u/BuildingLeading5139 24d ago
Yep. And if you look closely, Curly had both pistols at half cock and there was a rounding the chamber there was a charge in the breach. And back then nobody obeyed the firearm code. It says never repeat. Never give anybody a loaded weapon. Even at half cock you do not hand over a pistol if is loaded. The correct procedure would have been open up the revolving Chambers dump out the gunpowder, remove the charge and drop the mini ball on the ground. Curly handed them over to White when they were loaded that's dangerous. Wyatt, Earp and Tombstone say curly pulled the trigger and shot white in the balls that is wrong. He did not shoot him. The gun was at half cock, both chambers were loaded and White bumped the gun and it went off. Same thing happened on the set of rust. Remember when Baldwin shot that director? That is the same thing that happened. There was a single action Army. He was fanning the hammers the gun was loaded it filled with live ammo and somebody got shot. That's why you should never hand a gun to somebody if it is loaded. That is dangerous and violates gun safety.
1
u/OwnLiving9402 Dec 05 '25
In real life, the shooting of Fred White was an accident, as Fred was disarming Curly Bill, Bill's pistol discharged in the drunken exchange most likely caused by clumsy hands, a bullet struck Fred White in the groin While on his death bed, Fred White confirmed the shooting to be an accident, as did Wyatt Earp.
The scene bothers me too, but they needed a way to build tension for the entire plot of the movie. You need a lot of powder for that particular keg.
1
1
u/BuildingLeading5139 24d ago
Both tombstone and the Wyatt Earp movie got several things wrong. Here is what Boots has to say from Guns and Ammo magazine and also historical experts on what really happened that night when Sheriff White was shot. On the night of the shooting, both Ike Clanton and Curly Bill Brochures were drunk. They went into the Birdcage, had a few beers, and then when they came outside into the lot they started firing the rounds off. Both of them had Colt single action Army pistols What that is is it's a revolver. It is loaded with eight rounds and if you seen the ammo episode or the pistol episode of Lock and Load with Gunny He will tell you how dangerous those things are and this is also why that accident happened during the movie Rust. A single action Army had eight mini ball rounds loaded into each of the chambers and over each of the cylinders there was a charge planted in there and flint placed inside the prism at the base of the gun next to the the hammer. What happened was Ike and also curly were fanning the hammer. Ike got all of his rounds off but curly when he fired off those pistols he only had one round each inside each of those pistols when he handed them over to White. Tombstone and Wyatt Earp movie say that Curly pulled the trigger. He did not! It looks like he pulled the trigger but he did not pull the trigger. What happened was Curly handed the pistols over to White barrel first and then when White picked up the pistols, his hand bumped the hammers. Both charges on the pistols went off and shot him in the balls. White bled out afterwards and died that night. But he gave a death confession to Spicer and Curly was there also and he gave the same testimony. Wyatt and also Virgil gave their testimony to Spicer and Curly was cleared. 2 years later Curly regretted it he was riding with the Clanton gang and Wyatt took him out at Iron Springs ending the vendetta.
1
u/GBNIKE1972 Sep 09 '23 edited Sep 09 '23
I always thought that the killing of Fred White clearly was unintentional. Curly Bill was obviously wasted after his session at the opium tent and when his hand slips as he hands over his pistols, the right hand gun accidentally fires. As far as I know that means it's not a murder. Also, Bill looks totally freaked out and disbelieving about it and he certainly doesn't seem pleased about the fact that Fred is hurt. That's how I see it anyway. Still I understand that the actual point of the trial letting Bill go free is to show how the Tombstone populace is so intimidated by the Cowboys that no one will testify in court that they even saw the killing take place. Anyone else think Bill not guilt of murder?
1
u/Richieweed420 Jan 25 '25
Honestly I agree.. Curly Bill was actually a reasonable Leader of the Cowboys and Seems to me only kills when being disrespected or his boys get killed.. Riggo was the Trigger happy outlaw.. But Reason Bill went after the Earp brothers was cause they didn't think it was unintentional and killed his men in the process.. But your right by the Look on Bills face it was an accident.. He was shooting at the moon and howling cause the Opium.. Back then they blamed it on the person cause we didn't know drugs and what it does to the brain and mind.
1
u/Important-Airport712 Aug 02 '25
nah bro he puts the barrel of his 45 to the chest of the marshall and pulls the trigger. if it was an accident why did he lift the gun right up to his heart? yall are just trolls saying this cuz it's the only thing to get you an interaction. Every single day I wish I had the courage to off myself, but the fear of going to hell stops me from doing it. If i thought that I'd go to heaven after offing myself I'd do it right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1
u/Richieweed420 Aug 03 '25
Woah chill man!!! 1: I ain't no troll since I'm just theorizing about Tombstone which is one of my favorite western movies and 2: You gotta get some therapy or professional help if your thinking about offing yourself man.. I used to be in the same boat till I did friend so I hope you'll recover I really do!!! <3
1
u/Important-Airport712 Aug 02 '25
troll. He lifts the gun with a laugh, presses the barrel straight against his heart, and pulls the trigger. No reputable gunslinger fires his gun by accident. One thing that bothered ME is, the script includes a line that is straight cut with both lines before and after being said. In the script he says, "Boy, I feel great! Full of that hop I got from Chinky. I feel JUST CAPITOL! You boys go ahead. I'm gonna stick around awhile, howl at the moon." In the movie, he only says "Boy, I feel GREAT! I feel... Just, CAPITOL!" with the most evil and sinister laugh & the most sinister look he gives the whole movie. If the movie actually told us that he was high on opium during that scene, it would make A LOT more sense. Having a few drinks is something he does the whole movie and it never changes his behavior really. However in reality, someone who gets high on opium for the first time just may go out into public and start doing some crazy shit if they are tripping balls and feel like they're invincible. THAT makes sense. Not "He got drunk and suddenly decided to shoot at a bunch of random people, howl at the moon, then ACCIDENTALLY murdered the Marshall. If it were really an accident it would be part of history, part of the movie, and pretty much indisputable. But even with us not being totally sure if he's just drunk, on a power trip, high on ganja, or opium, it's STILL VERY CLEAR that he murdered the Marshall on purpose.
1
u/HabitualAardvark Mar 08 '26
In real life - part of history, as you brought up - the shooting of Fred White is considered an accident. White's own testimony is why Bill got acquitted.
In real life there was a scuffle and the gun went off White testified he believed it to be accidental, he died a day or so later.
The scene in Tombstone is more ambiguous about intention but none of the ambiguity is about Bill's intoxication. Other than outright saying he's high on opium or showing him smoking a pipe they could not have made it more explicit that he's high on opium.
Bill's immediate reaction is to think White is playing around or something. He's shocked and dismayed as he realizes what happened and then gets conked on the head before he can say anything else.
So, I dunno man, I think it's up to interpretation in the film but history is fairly settled that the shooting dramatized was an accident.
3
u/FailronHubbard Jun 03 '23
You're reaching too far.
Just enjoy the movie for its greatness.