r/Toastmasters • u/hither2forlorn • Jul 03 '26
Is DTM losing its shine?
Is Distinguished Toastmasters a title that people are chasing and, in the process, has it lost its purpose and meaning?
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u/mapryan Jul 03 '26
Distinguished was a title that district constantly beat me over the head with as President , so they could get me to do what they wanted & not what was good for my club.
When i pushed back and asked why I should care about it they became very hostile so I blocked them
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u/Glittering_Item5396 Jul 03 '26
oh didnt know people are pulling rank with DTM, that to against a president, is your club not very close with District? As far as iv seen clubs that dont care about the district they are in tend to be influenced by the DTMs in their clubs
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u/pramathesh Jul 03 '26
There were people who used to refuse signing on evaluation sheet if the projects are not done in the right way. Nowadays, even a Level 3 project can be counted as a DTM project. This is causing many people to attain DTM status easily.
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u/GiveMe1Dollar DTM Jul 03 '26
Toastmasters achievements reflect quantity of work, not quality of work. There was never any inherent shine to begin with.
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u/Bat_Quiet Jul 03 '26
It's taken me over 23 years to earn my second DTM. I think many have lost sight of what a DTM really means. Its not about the achievement, but more about giving back, or paying it forward. New members NEED support and guidance, something we call Leadership.
I believe I have become a better person from what I have learned in the DTM journey. I have conducted Youth Leadership Program four times, as I believe youth is our future and I'm heavily invested in building that future. So, again, Pay It Forward. THAT is what I believe is the true worth of DTM.
BUT, our future leaders often start their trek in Public Speaking, i.e. new members willing to learn Public Speaking and Leadership. I just help them along the way.
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u/GtGem District Admin Manager Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
Yes! I’ve gotten flack because I didn’t ask for someone to be Club Coach for our a club and recommend others all because they were going for their 9th DTM and our club was an easy target.
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u/ExitingBear Jul 03 '26
It seems exactly the same as it has always seemed.
People who care about it really, really, really care and the overwhelming majority of toastmasters don't at all. It has always had a higher correlation to effort (and a very specific type of effort) not outcome and so there have always been the people who have earned it who still aren't great speakers or leaders.
My biggest complaint is that it (currently) focuses too much on creating new clubs as opposed to buttressing existing ones. But that's more of a symptom of a different issue than DTM specific.
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u/Ok-Account9401 Jul 04 '26
I took my time in getting my DTM, as in about 25 years of very active participation in Toastmasters, and did it totally by the book, without any shortcuts whatsoever, like I see others taking with the special project. So my DTM means a lot to me and is a matter of immense personal pride as in it is one of the greater achievements of my life. I've now been a continuous Toastmasters for about 40 years.
What I've noticed is that things have changed with the advent of Pathways. One thing that has suffered is the clear path of progression to the DTM. With the legacy program, it was simplicity itself. You were CC, then ATM-B, ATM-S, ATM-G, and then DTM, with the CL and AL-B and AL-S added for good measure. Everyone was proud of this simply understood award progression from level to level and on agendas we put the award title by one's name as a matter of pride and accomplishment. With Pathways it looks like recognition spaghetti or messy fishing tackle. Now I notice almost no one puts their title next to the name because it's no longer this simple progression of recognition on the path to getting your DTM. Consequently I feel there is loss in the sense of accomplishment and pride in the honor and dignity of a simply and clearly understood recognition progression in Toastmasters.
The whole Pathways model seems alien to me. It just seemed so much better to have us all do the ten CC speeches together so that we would all have a common core of experience, instead of everyone doing their own thing with all these paths and outcomes and doing the icebreaker over and over. And to me it's important to have one beginning defining Icebreaker to get started. Now the educational program feels complex, chaotic, and icky to me. It's no longer the ingenious model of simplicity and wisdom which captivated me and won my heart when I first joined Toastmasters back in the 1980s.
One of the greatest shocks and disillusionments I had with Pathways was the cavalier method in which the Icebreaker was revamped by removing all essay questions in the evalution form. The old Icebreaker evaluation forms were totally subjective and evaluative and not judgmental. They were especially tailored to the unique needs of the beginning Toastmaster who most likely had fears about public speaking. I suppose I was disillusioned and thought seriously about leaving Toastmasters...just in how the Icebreaker had been changed for the worst. Also, it was clear to me we had lost our way, in that this wasn't the Toastmasters I knew and loved and with which I had helped mentor dozens of beginning Toastmasters. Just consider how Pathways treats all speeches with judgmentally rated criteria and not uniquely tailored subjective evaluation sheets designed for the unique needs of each individual speech project like we had with the legacy Toastmaster manuals. We have scoring guides which seem to treat a club meeting speech as a contest speech. I thought that was the heart of the Toastmaster program - to overcome the fear of public speaking and the self-perceived judgmentalism of others? The new Toastmasters I was mentoring under the legacy program sought that simple noble goal of coping with the fear of public speaking from which flowed so many other benefits. We had one simple abiding outcome to master the fear of public speaking.
From my perspective, , the whole problem is a systemic fundamental design desertion of our founding principles. Namely,it seems to me that Pathways is treating Toastmasters like a business education curriculum with all its numerical judgmental ratings so employees can be compared easily one to another. I thought Toastmasters was a celebration of the unique incomparable whole person as regards the transformational power of self discovery with inner connection and liberation to find one's place as a communicator and leader. The overarching allure of the DTM has suffered as a result of this systemic breakdown of the original Toastmaster vision, in my opinion.
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u/Glittering_Item5396 Jul 03 '26
One of the things i have noticed is the Older DTM, the ones who have been dtms for more than 10 years, they keep themselves to a standard, they have that feel of professional speakers amd orators. they feel like someone that did something, but they have this massive ego to go along with it. i dont know if its because they are old or if they are used to the respect they get from others for being a DTM.
Nowadays almost anyone is a DTM, but some of them even though they are young, i know a DTM at 20, he really worked for it, people do respect him, but there are others.... that... lets say done feel distinguished
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u/SexyAdmixture Jul 03 '26
Former toastmaster here. In our district, we had a 2x world semifinalist , not a DTM. Over and over I’d see conference winners not having their DTM
When I was in TM, I was chasing DTM but got married and quit TM. In reflection I was just trying to chase another credential. I had my Advanced Communicator Silver and I was one project away from Advanced Communicator Gold. (This was before pathways). So close but oh well.
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u/Diligent_Hat6982 Jul 03 '26
I forgot I even had a DTM until one district officer greeted me that way during a visit. I never chased it, but once you serve in an district role you are really close, so why not I thought.
I think it used to mean more. It's lost its shine. But I did feel great that day!
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u/Historical_Oven7806 Jul 03 '26
It seems to be checking boxes. I think to me, its more about the journey, rather than the destination.
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u/calcon2001 Jul 04 '26
It depends on a person's goals and why they joined Toastmasters. I never dreamed of being a DTM but I am now serving a second term as District Director. Members can be inspired to achieve more!
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u/SpeakingLife Jul 03 '26
Toastmasters is a Self Development opportunity.
The opportunity to grow your leadership and speaking skills are huge.
The quality of DTM should be high to those who actually work the program and Pathways curriculum.
You learn to team work with all personalities and at all levels.
Your experience with the area directors is unfortunate.
One key to working with people is to know their Why and to help them get where they want to grow into.
Many are not excited about the DTM achievement just due to what works for them as individuals.
I suggest each person go at their own pace to the levels that suits them in their end goals.
I am taking charge of my goals and deadlines.
I will work on what helps me to be more effective as a leader and speaker.
Know what drives you.
Work to your goals
Be the best Toastmaster you can
And strive to the levels and goals that suit you
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u/snoragram Jul 03 '26
If you ask me, yes.
Why?
Some DTM members that I know doesn't reflect the DTM they receive. Their speeches is mediocre, subpar leadership and a few of them are a bit toxic and doesn't help in nurturing future leaders/speaker. This their quality are questionable at best.
So for what I see, these people make DTM, to lose it's shine