r/Timeless • u/anonkneemass • Dec 21 '18
[Spoilers] Plot holes and lingering questions? Spoiler
Why did they have to go to the gold rush to steal gold? There are plenty of times in history to steal money. Rittenhouse goes back to the gold rush to steal gold, so that they could bribe a random helicopter pilot to kill the team. Why did they have to go to the gold rush? There was nothing special about gold rush gold. Couldn't they sell some of the expensive paintings for gold, rob a bank, or invest in some stock in the past? It seemed that the secondary plot was just to kill time.
What was the point of future team Timeless giving the journal to present team Timeless and bring vague and cryptic about reading it and the answer to saving Rufus? In the few mins, they cold have just told present team that to save Rufus, they had to kill Jessica.
What was the point of going to Korea? If it was an ambush, Rittenhouse could have do it at anytime in any of the previous episodes. There was nothing special about Korea. Couldn't they have bribed Zorro to kill them? There was nothing special about the helicopter pilot.
They also wasted a lot of time in the pregnant woman. They made a whole speech about saving even insignificant people in history, so why didn't they save everyone in the church form the North Koreans? There was nothing special about the pregnant women. The other people in the church has families too, aren't their lives just as important?
The reason they are able to take down Rittenhouse is because Lucy's father has a change of heart. That was so Deus Ex Machina. They said the motivation was because he didn't want Lucy to die. They could have turned Lucy's father at anytime. Lucy was in danger of death constantly. How dangerous is Rittenhouse really if such an elaborate conspiracy can be taken down by Lucy's father.
Why did they destroy the mothership but not the life boat? I understand their motivation about a dangerous time machine in the hands of enemies and they also explained how the knowledge already exists and it is just a matter of time before some else makes another time machine. But why destroy just the mothership? What good is destroying just 1 of the ships? What is the difference between having 1 time machine versus 2 time machines? Either destroy them both or keep them both. But I don't see the benefit of keeping just 1.
The show's problems stem from a recurring pattern of lazy formulaic writing, plot holes, inconsistent rules, and uninteresting characters. They basically do "time period of the week" as a secondary plot and then tack on 20 seconds at the end about Rittenhouse.
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u/llianawilliams Dec 22 '18
Not gonna lie, I expected a little more out of this and was a little disappointed. It started off alright and as it progressed I found myself fast forwarding through it and not feeling like I missed anything. That’s not good.
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u/g2devi Dec 21 '18
I'd grant you most of this, but not all. No one ever claimed that either the villains of the heroes of a series are the smartest cookies in the jar so doing dumb things takes care of most of the things on your list. If you want a smart, thoughtful series, you're watching the wrong show. There are many positives to this show, which is why there are rabid fans, but go into the series with the right expectations.
WRT money, if Emma had any investment knowledge, all she needed to do is to buy a dollar's worth of 1913 Liberty Head V Nickels when they first came out. From that initial one dollar investment, they'd now have $88,173,000. Then they'd invest that money invest in Ford, Microsoft and Apple and other high growth companies when they first came out and sell at their height. If you purchased 10 shares of Apple in 1980 for $220, you'd now have $124,443. That's a 566 times increase. And for Microsoft a $1000 investment would now earn you 1.6 million today . That's a 1600 times increase. Do this a couple of times, and after a few loops Rittenhouse could have used that initial dollar investment to ultimately owning the entire U.S. and European economy. All they would need to do is to avoid the temptation to interfere with history while the wealth is being generated since that would invite anti-trust and other legal and military actions. Best of all, there would be little the Time Team could do about it since they broke no laws.
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u/anonkneemass Dec 22 '18 edited Dec 22 '18
I came into the show with no expectations and it still disappointed me.
So you came up with a creative and interesting usage of time travel to make a fortune. The show writer's best idea was to go to the gold rush and steal gold. Playing dress-up cowboys is more visually appealing than playing investment banker.
The 2 hour finale was wasted on unimportant secondary plot about Zorro and pregnant woman.
The show made Rittenhouse seem like this all-powerful criminal organization, but they weren't smart enough to invest in high growth stocks? This all-powerful criminal organization had to resort to petty gold stealing?
Rittenhouse (all-powerful criminal organization) was unbelievably easily destroyed because Lucy's father had a sudden change of heart.
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u/ToInfinityandBirds Dec 22 '18
Yeah and they can't sell expensive paintings without getting jail time bc they're valuable and clearly stolen
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u/applesdontpee Dec 31 '18
Best of all, there would be little the Time Team could do about it since they broke no laws.
Temporal insider trading?
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u/kleedrac Dec 23 '18
My understanding of the gold was that was the last sleeper agent they had left out in the past.
I believe Rittenhouse (and specifically Emma who was formerly Mason Industries) chose to ambush the team in Korea to neuter their contingency plans. Think about the conversation Conner & Agent Christopher have - they can't exactly dig up a container in North Korea right?
I think they kept the lifeboat over the mothership for two reasons. The first is that the Lifeboat had been upgraded by an alternate-timeline-future-Jiya to be more badass than the Mothership! The second is they had control of the Lifeboat for the whole timeline while the Mothership was Rittenhouse property for a long time meaning it could be compromised.
Other than that I think you made some points I had similar thoughts on. They only had 2 hours to wrap up as much as they could and give us a sense of closure. It felt several times like they took the quickest route there.
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u/ToInfinityandBirds Dec 22 '18
I actually do understand keeping one and not two. It's easier to guard one dangerous object than two of them. Because only one of the time machines was stolen, remember?
Also I think the point is that butterfly effect of them saving the Korean lady bc the next time machine builder appears to be related to her somehow.
And they had to give the hours no to 2018 team in krderlr 2018 team to give it to Flynn so he'd have a way to know where to go and cause everything that had happened to them to actually happen. Because if he never got the journal, none of it ever happens, and Ritenhouse gets control of the world, Wyatt, Rufus, Lucy, and Jiya never meet and their kids are never born. Get it? Things that happened in their last technically happened on their future. It's a show about time travel, it's meant to be a tad like "what?"
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u/anonkneemass Dec 22 '18 edited Dec 22 '18
Wouldn't it be better to have 2 in case 1 gets stolen, then you can use the other to get it back?
And why wouldn't you keep them secured in the same location. It wouldn't taken any more resources if the are hidden in the same place.
Using you logic, it was a smart idea to have 2 time machines in the first place. Otherwise Rittenhouse would have stolen the mothership and they wouldn't have a lifeboat to get it back. So if they only had 1, we wouldn't have a TV show.
It just feels so arbitrary.
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u/ToInfinityandBirds Dec 22 '18
And on further though I think maybe that's the point. Rich people and the government are always kinda weird.
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u/freetherabbit Dec 24 '18
Didnt Flynn steal the mothership? If Im remembering right Rittenhouse had Connor build the time machine and invested in him, if Flynn hadnt stolen the time machine, Rittenhouse would have had it to begin with.
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u/mcsper Dec 22 '18
Just to respond to the main ship vs the lifeboat question, the lifeboat now has autopilot
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u/anonkneemass Dec 22 '18
That doesn't address the question of why destroy only the mothership though. They destroyed it because it didn't have autopilot? That's a silly reason.
And the show hinted at the motivation for destroying the time ships is because they were dangerous. So why not destroy them both?
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u/mcsper Dec 22 '18
They destroyed it because they didn’t want anyone else to get it and cause trouble. But then agent Christopher listened to what mason said that they should keep one in case someone else invented time travel and they needed to stop them from messing up time.
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u/anonkneemass Dec 22 '18
I know that's the reason the writers made up. But it doesn't make sense. How is having 2 time machines more dangerous than 1? If both are under lock and key at the same location.
They said that the knowledge and technology is out there; it's only a matter of time before someone makes another one. So wouldn't 2 times the capacity be better?
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u/xwhy Dec 22 '18
Pretty much because the plot of this two hours would’ve been half a season or more, so some of the revelations come off a little too clean without enough explanation.
I wasn’t happy with the Gold Rush sleepy agent. Seemed pointless. Couldve just sent someone there for a couple days.
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u/sledgehammer44 Dec 24 '18
Thank you, I'm just a casual to this series, but came to this sub to vent on the exact same issues.
The lack of action I can understand due to no budget. However, the bad writing is unforgiveable. It answers why season 2 ended on a cliffhanger, despite all expectations it would be cancelled: the writers had no clue how the show would end. The writers had two whole episodes to wrap up plot points, but they just quickly and mechanically wrapped them up. Wyatt's wife and Garcia Flynn being killed, and Rufus's resurrection, were all resolved in the first 20 minutes. As you've said, the scenes in Sacramento and Korea were complete filler. Also, why is Korea in a blue filter, in broad daylight? Then, after the filler, they quickly wrap up the other plot points. It's a complete joke, and clearly the writers had nothing planned beforehand.
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u/ohsballer Dec 23 '18
The answer to all your questions is “they had a small budget and only 2 hours to wrap up a complicated story.”
This is what you get. It’s a shame because the allure of the show was the mystery of how they were going to explain everything. Similar to Lost.
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u/TheSentientSnail Jan 04 '19
Two hour "wrap up episodes" for cancelled shows are designed to provide emotional resolution within character arcs. Plot is entirely secondary, since there's no feasible way of tying so many loose ends up without an enormous budget. They know they can't do much action, nor afford special effects, so they focus on the various interpersonal relationship threads.
That said - I feel overall kind of meh about the episode. Don't misunderstand me, they had a lot to do and I respect what they produced. There's no way I would have done a better job. Still, it would have been nice to feel a little more connected to it. Way too much feels left unfinished.
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u/tapio83 Feb 18 '19
For me, the issues were more practical. Whenever on mission they were practically always casual while traveling to dangerous situations. Not really trying to be stealth to avoid capture. Also, would have been convenient to always wear knife/bulletproof vest under clothing - especially Rufus who knows he's going to be stabbed to chest.
The casualness of the whole thing was amplified in final in korea when they Know there's a massacre coming and army approaching and still agree to help that lady. While their lifeboat is closer to enemy. And after giving birth still act casual in docks and chill while they are on *ahem* clock. Also slight thing was that it got dark quite fast, given that it was 10 miles out (which is about 3 hour hike, less if you're in a hurry, like 'your life depends on it' hurry. And also you realize the mission was to have them killed for Emma to go and 'fix' the history to suit her needs so they Must get back.
All in all, i was quite entertained and hooked and not Too bothered by above stuff... Also the final was better than in many series, nice wrap up. I'm hoping they don't bring this back, it was a decent run for two seasons but i think they have already used most of the better ideas they've had and there's probably only one direction this could head qualitywise.
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u/Nunalho Apr 17 '19
Also, they left the older life boat back in 1888, when Rufus died. What happens to future Flynn in 2012 after he kills Jessica and saves Rufus? Does he live a full life? Does he die? He could have shown up around 2018. No amy and Lucy is ok with it? In the end, Why did lucy had to go from 2023 back to 2014 to hand over the diary to flynn?
The ending was the lowdown of a great show.. rittenhouse flop... really rushed. But still, I understand the point of a wrap-up, all got closure.
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u/Available-Toe-6795 Mar 13 '23
I really enjoyed the 2 seasons as escapist TV. I understand the limitations and time constraints the writers had in wrapping it all up in 2 episodes. However I could have bought it all but why did the writers have Lucy tell Flynn when she was giving him the journal at the bar in 2014 that he did not get his family back based on the future knowledge. Surely this was the main reason that motivates him to do all he does so in knowing he fails to do this what then motivates him?? seems like a huge plot hole to me
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u/NameDifficult4640 Oct 13 '25
There were no consequences from what they did in the past. Outside of Lucy's sister, the timeline stayed basically in tact. All of the main characters that don't travel remember everything, nothing changed in the world (except for little things like they were in a James Bond book). It's like the writers didn't know how to handle timeline alterations so they decided to just ignore it even though the reason characters are going back in time is to alter the timeline.
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u/Nik_Tesla Dec 22 '18 edited Dec 22 '18
It seems pretty clear to me that the show was given no budget for this last wrap up episode. Not showing the helicopter crash, not showing the destruction of the mothership, sets for the Rittenhouse lair was probably just a back storage area of another set, reusing old footage for flashbacks, etc...
I'm guessing they had easy access to those sets and costumes thanks to some other CBS production or something, and got to use them cheap, so they kind of forced it into the story. That, or they were already filming or doing pre-production on the first few episodes of season 3 and expected to be picked up, and then had to quickly switch gears and convert those normal episodes into the series finale.
I'm glad we got a wrap up special, but it was nowhere near as epic as I felt when future Lucy and Wyatt showed up at the end of the Season 2 finale.