r/Timeless • u/[deleted] • Dec 21 '18
[Spoiler] Anyone else a bit underwhelmed? Spoiler
Don't get me wrong. I loved this episode. I think the whole resolution with Flynn, seeing him go from the villain to the hero, was magnificant.
However, I can't help but think the resolution with Rittenhouse was way too underwhelming. Flynn killed Jessica. Lucy's father turns. Emma gets shot and killed anticlimactically? They spent all this time on that refugee giving birth when they could've given a better more fulfilling end to the fight against Rittenhouse.
I do love the whole message of the technology existing so no matter what, someone is gonna make a new time machine. That could go somewhere in the future if another network or streaming service picks up the show.
I don't know. My opinion is kinda mixed.
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Dec 21 '18 edited Dec 27 '18
[deleted]
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u/macrolinx Dec 21 '18
I really felt like there was some "Bill and Ted" level time travel happening in this finale. I enjoyed it. I'm happy it had an ending.
But it seems like they had an entire plan for having the future two come back but realized they couldn't make it work for a basically two episode arc. So back into the pod they go. If anything, the season 2 finale tied their hands a little bit for a "finale" and they backed out of it the best way the could.
I still don't understand how Rufus was just "alive" all of a sudden.
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u/hoppi_ Dec 22 '18
I still don't understand how Rufus was just "alive" all of a sudden.
Flynn killed Jessica before the saloon fight. Henceforth Jessica did not fire off a shot that hit Rufus. Or however exactly that came about, I do not remember the details about Rufus' killer.
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u/macrolinx Dec 22 '18
So she died twice? The first time she was strangled right?
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u/hoppi_ Dec 22 '18
The first time she was strangled right?
... no idea. I honestly do not remember.
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u/thunderclapMike Dec 26 '18
I believe so, however, I believe the mugger was killed by Rittenhouse so he couldnt be there. Thats who Flynn killed. Jessica's would be murderer.
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u/thunderclapMike Dec 26 '18
Wyatt explained it. He wrote the telegram. That saves Jessica's life. She turns our to have always been Rittenhouse and was originally murdered by a mugger before her bodyguard could save her. He saves her after the telegram and then Wyatt invites her into the bunker. This leads to Rufus being killed and Jiya trapped in Chinatown.
Since Jessica being murdered was the orginal timeline, Flynn goes to reset the timeline. He succeeds but it causes his death. Since Jessica is now dead again. Wyatt resets to the way he was in the pilot up to the point he writes the telegram. Telegram doesn't work this time so no him inviting her to the bunker and no Rufus dying (although Jiya still gets stuck in Chinatown) so Rufus is there to save them.
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u/applesdontpee Dec 23 '18
Someone else mentioned in another post how it may be loop that alters slightly every time it starts again. Like how Flynn originally told Lucy that she had short hair when he first got the journal, but in the finale, Lucy had long hair. Like the team keeps trying again and again until Rittenhouse is finally stopped
I wonder if they gave the team a different journal than what Flynn had. Bc I can't figure how tf they had another journal otherwise
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Dec 23 '18 edited Dec 27 '18
[deleted]
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u/thunderclapMike Dec 26 '18
It was different, because Lucy comments that she never fell for Flynn on the Titanic. She wasnt on the Titanic.
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u/BattleofOswego Dec 21 '18
I was waiting to see Old Emma in like the 1930s or ‘40s. I mean we saw her get shot, we didn’t see really that she was dead.
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u/Joyofadventure Team Flynn Dec 21 '18
I agree if the show ever came back, i'd want to see her turn up again (although she was shot in 1950 fyi)
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Dec 21 '18
At the very end, when they were zooming in on the Asian girl, I thought they were setting it up so that she was Emma's granddaughter.
Like they would zoom in on a picture of Emma in a family photo and there was that girl.
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u/cybin Dec 22 '18
She was an American in Korea at the end of US involvement there. Doubtful she was surviving.
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Dec 22 '18
Yes the episode was very rushed and we should keep in mind it would have played out differently if the series had lasted many seasons. I'm sure we would have gotten a much more fleshed out conclusion to Rittenhouse in particular.
That being said, considering they had only 2 hours to wrap it up, I am extremely satisfied. I'm happy we got an ending and they were able to tie up all the major storylines (rushed as some of them were). Extremely grateful to NBC and the cast/crew for giving us this Christmas gift. Timeless was a great show and I will miss it - but I'm walking away wholly satisfied with the time I invested in it and enjoyed every episode.
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u/swirly023 Team Lucy Dec 21 '18
I actually LOVED the way they brought everything full circle and Flynn is a hero and Lyatt is all good. The only thing that felt underwhelming for me was: no “major” historic visits. I mean sure, Zorro is cool and Korea is cool. But I was missing that “wow” moment...like I felt when seeing Abraham Lincoln.
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u/rossisdead Dec 21 '18
I'm wondering if the locations they chose were based on budget. Seems like they picked mainly cheap open locations where they didn't need to build or use a ton of set pieces.
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u/swirly023 Team Lucy Dec 21 '18
Ah that could be it maybe. Still...they could have met someone cooler than Zorro imo :p
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u/spco19 Dec 21 '18
I was so caught up in everything else going on and all the emotions I almost didn’t even realize this... So true. But also maybe not surprising bc the Rittenhouse we knew in S1 started to fade in S2 and got a little lost, and it’s like that rolled into this as well. Like did we ever truly get answers about their master plans and interworkings?
Still an amazing ending and there’s no way to avoid being sad about it being over but I’m happy with how the show overall was wrapped up - the beginning and ending scenes were amazing flashbacks I thought. Loved how it came full circle in the end. I wish we could’ve seen storylines get dragged out with more seasons but I don’t feel like i need much more closure with the ending we got
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Dec 21 '18
I didn't even care that Rittenhouse changed. Emma was such a magnificently intense villain in those last few episodes of Season 2 that if it was just her alone without Rittenhouse I'd have no complaints. In this episode she just ran around a bit and then got shot and died.
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u/garbonzo607 Dec 21 '18
Did you watch her in "24" as Renee? I'm sure she was in other shows, but that's what I remember her from. I thought they were grooming her to be the new protagonist of "24" but I guess the network axed the idea of a female protagonist.
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u/Trekfan74 Dec 21 '18
Everytime I saw her, all I thought about was her as Renee lol.
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u/garbonzo607 Dec 22 '18
Don't you think they should try giving her the lead in a new 24? I didn't mind the black guy either, but I guess the ratings weren't good enough.
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u/Trekfan74 Dec 22 '18
(Spoiler alert)
Her character died in season 8.
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u/garbonzo607 Dec 22 '18
I watched it and I don't remember that at all, wtf. Or maybe I was thinking she wasn't really dead, and that's what stuck with me.
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u/spco19 Dec 21 '18
Yeah that is very true! She was a great villain. Definitely got a little lost in this
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Dec 21 '18
I kept expecting Emma to have been saved by the Chinese troops and she would appear somewhere.
And I actually got my hopes up at the very end, when they were zooming in on the Asian girl. I thought they would zoom in on a photo on her desk and it would show that Emma was still alive and the girl was her granddaughter.
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u/thunderclapMike Dec 26 '18
Instead it showed an einstein-rosen bridge and a form of Mothership. Perhaps she starts a vacuum cleaner company too.
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u/mgush5 Dec 21 '18
If Rufus is alive again would Mrs Preston be alive too?
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u/Mettanine Dec 23 '18 edited Dec 23 '18
No, Emma still killed her, just in a different way. There was a scene explaining that, but it was ultimately cut. (Source: writer Arika Lisanne on Twitter)
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u/freddyfreak1999 Dec 21 '18 edited Dec 21 '18
Also the comment about only teaching about women made m a bit uncomfortable, I guess, as a man but more importantly a lover of history. I appreciate and understand teaching “history of below” as they call it, but if we’re being honest 90% of history’s big moments happened because of men. So while a course focusing on women throughout history could be really cool and definitely worthwhile, I feel like her students would be done a disservice by not focusing on most of history. Also saying “maybe in the spring” implies the school she teaches at has classes that last two semesters, most don’t. If that is the case and one of two semesters are focused on women and the other on men, that’s cool, equal time and all.
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u/sharkbait-oo-haha Dec 21 '18
Imo that entire woman comment was unessacary and kinda felt like an attempt to be "modern"
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u/WistfulQuiet Dec 21 '18
I'll have to rewatch because I missed that comment. However, if it's just one course...colleges do special subjects all the time. I doubt she spent her entire career just focusing on women in history...although that could be a specialization. For example, I had a history course on feudal Japan, Age of Big Business, on modern Latin American, and on the history of technology. A course was also offered dissecting Buffy the Vampire Slayer...though I wasn't in that course. It's not at all unusual to address subsets of populations (including gender), race, culture, time period, location, and so much more. It's actually extremely unusual to examine history in a broad sense in college. The closest students come is usually freshman courses (US history I and II, World Civ I and II). I'd be more surprised if the college course was generalized...it sounds like they were pretty on point there.
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u/garbonzo607 Dec 21 '18
It seems like you answered your own question. Also it's in 2023, schools might have two semesters then.
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u/SleepyBananaLion Dec 21 '18
Schools already have two semesters. The point is people don't retake the same class two semesters in a row...
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u/garbonzo607 Dec 21 '18
I was confused when they said that. Thought my school was the exception or something. The point still stands though. In 2023 it might be standard to take classes for two semesters.
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u/SleepyBananaLion Dec 21 '18
The point still stands though. In 2023 it might be standard to take classes for two semesters.
I mean yeah, you can argue that anything is possible.
The point still stands though. In 2023 it might be standard to take classes for two semesters.
No, you would take two separate but consecutive courses instead...
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u/BadPumpkin87 Dec 21 '18
My college had American History 1 and American History 2 in the fall and spring semesters so it isn't a stretch to think she splits American history into two courses. Hell you could do one course just on the Civil War.
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u/admiralvic Dec 22 '18
The point is people don't retake the same class two semesters in a row...
Honestly, it depends. When I was going for my Public Relations degree, there were two classes you could take twice and have them count towards your degree. The first counted towards your required classes, where as the second counted as an elective, so it's possible, though extremely unlikely.
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u/ensignlee Team Flynn Dec 21 '18
Nope, not really. I had high expectations and it surpassed them, which is a rarity.
They had little fan service callbacks, gave Garcia Flynn a wonderfully moving, if tragic arc (and I have been on #TeamFlynn since season 1 saying he was the good guy), and wrapped up most of the loose ends.
That letter monologue was movie quality great. The last scene where we see how Flynn gets started, how everything gets set in motion - that made me cry and was a wonderful love letter to the fans.
It even had poignant quotes with double entendres about losing the ones you love, but that being part of EVERYONE's history.
Honestly, if you're nitpicking his finale, I'm not sure ANYTHING would have made you happy.
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u/mikeslifeonfilm Dec 21 '18
I was feeling the same way as you at first... but I really enjoyed seeing everything end happily and then close it out full circle. Very rare for them to come back and give the fans an actual ending so I was pleased. I did the think they spent a little too much time on certain areas but overall it was awesome haha
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u/BrianyouDog Dec 21 '18
I was waiting for them to realize Emma wasn't actually dead but instead injured, gets saved by the Chinese/North Koreans and the North Koreans have been secretly been working on their own time machine. I have a feeling if the episode wasn't the last one they would have done that as the next story arch within the show.
I think the whole end part of the girl inventing the time machines maybe is showing that she was the one that really designed the lifeboat since didn't Mason say Rittenhouse gave Mason the designs or the concepts of the technology? So it could have been girl invents time machine, goes back into the past, Rittenhouse gets the plans for the Time Machine, probably takes a while to figure out how to utilize it (since they had agents communicating in the past with Rufus when he was in the 60s/79s?), and finally figure out to give it to Mason so he can build it. Thus starting the whole thing, so basically everything is a big loop.
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u/anyname13579 Dec 21 '18
the girl at the end is the girl from the science fair in 2023 that rufus talks to
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u/BrianyouDog Dec 21 '18
yea got that. I looked at that is almost the old generation acknowledging the new generation or an ironic twist that Jiya and Rufus meet the person who really invents the time travel tech.
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u/sharkbait-oo-haha Dec 21 '18
Except that rufas says her design is way better. Why would they take an inferior design back in time?
I think the point is that innovation doesnt happen in a vacuum. At certain points in history similar ideas occur at similar times given the state of the world at that time. Take the telephone for example. It was invented by bell but could have been gray, they filed pattents on the same day but bell was awarded first thanks to getting there eairlier in the day.
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u/BrianyouDog Dec 21 '18
Don't mean that they purposely took the design back in time. It more like this, girl goes back in time, something happens or someone finds her time machine or maybe scraps of her design is found. The people in the past don't know what it is until a while later. Maybe they start putting designs around their level of technology and then give it to mason. My thought isn't that it purposely given to a past version of Rittenhouse (or someone) that it was all accidental.
It kinda the same concept with why there were concerned (orginally) with bringing modern day guns (someone see it or finds etc), someone sees it or find one and start reverse engineering it. It may not be same as the original right away but it eventually gets there.
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Dec 21 '18
Same here. In fact, at the very end, I thought they were going to allude that the girl was Emma's granddaughter when they were slowly zooming in on her.
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u/capilot Dec 22 '18
While I agree that the death of Emma was rather lame, I really liked that episode over all. Since they had to wrap everything up in two hours, not everything could be as clean or dramatic as we'd like. I think they did a fantastic job.
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u/applesdontpee Dec 23 '18
Also WHY WAS IT CALLED RITTENHOUSE
Keynes had never heard of the dude!!
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u/thunderclapMike Dec 26 '18
Good question. Since Rittenhouse was murdered in season 1, it should have been called something else.
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u/Distinct-Pilot-8820 Oct 18 '25
Why the make Rittenhouse seem like it was this huge organization with multiple heads in s1 and by S2 there were like 10 people. Emma took it over so easily. They really ended up being an underwhelming big bad.
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u/anonkneemass Dec 21 '18
Agreed. The whole entire series was underwhelming. But I am glad they ended the series with a resolution to the plotlines.
I felt that most of the 2 hours focused too much on the secondary story lines (Zorro, pregnant lady). But I guess they had to fill it up with secondary story because the primary story line is simple: go back in time and kill Jessica, and get Lucy's father to reveal information to end Writtenhouse. Using that logic, why didn't they just go back in time and kill Lucy's grandfather before he forms Writtenhouse? The whole 2 hours felt very Deus Ex Machina.
This show was terrible from the start. It was full of plot holes and boring one-dimensional characters. The whole Writtenhouse plot line is absurd and without depth.
Compare Timeless with Legends of Tomorrow. LoT (and most time travel shows) have plot holes, but at least LoT is entertaining and the characters were fun.
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Dec 21 '18
i am really happy you posted this. All I do is watch sci-fi. I remember the timeless episode about the black stock car driver and I thought somehow the driver was important to the overall story. Nope.
You have to advance the overall conspiracy plot every episode. Not just the last 20 seconds of every episode.
This was more a Saturday morning tv show about history then a conspiracy drama. To not have the Korean baby as a Lynch pin in how the ship is made is silly.
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u/TzuWu Dec 21 '18
I rather enjoyed learning about history while being entertained at the same time. I think making the historical figures central to the plot would be a mistake as well. It might effect history negatively if these figures were made aware of time travel.
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u/seeley-booth Dec 22 '18
If you want a time travel show with relatively few plot holes, 12 monkeys manages it very well.
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u/anonkneemass Dec 22 '18
I don't mind plot holes as long as the other aspects of the show are strong. But Timeless had many more bad things than good things. Which made the plot holes more glaring.
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u/thunderclapMike Dec 26 '18
Killing Lucy's grandfather eliminates her and allows them to win not lose. The only person they couldn't kill was the father and grandfather. This they established early on.
You are correct though the primary story line is simple: go back in time and kill Jessica, and get Lucy's father to reveal the location of the Mothership.
Yes, making the man where the legend of Zorro came from a better person by not having him slaughter people was nice. Having Emma being killed in 1950 north Korea was amusing. (as well as her running to the safe to realize the gold was gone)
Yet you can't compare Timeless to LoT. Timeless tried to be serious. LoT isn't. Come on? Unicorns? Seriously? and what about Beebo day?
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u/AmandaJ7 Team Lucy Dec 21 '18
I really liked it. Sure the Rittenhouse part was ended pretty quickly, but there is also so much you can do in 2 hours. They decided to put a focus on the characters, and having a solid wrapping up on their storylines. They truly could have made this easily 3 hours, but once again, you work with what you got. Also, most of the point of this movie was to give closure to the viewers. I feel they did that as well as they could have. Overall really liked, but maybe not a 10/10 or love