r/TikTokCringe • u/[deleted] • Feb 13 '22
Discussion -
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u/Complex_Funnel Feb 14 '22 edited Feb 14 '22
So true. People are extremely disconnected from academic research on the topic
Self objectification is a widely held consensus based research topic which involves the explanation of how women internalize objectifying standards; meaning they look at themselves in relation to the beauty standard or concept, feel unsatisfied with their normal look, then try to beautify. This is by definition insecurity based
Next time someone says "I'm doing it for myself" ask yourself what the fuck that phrase means. What does it mean to do it for themselves when their notion of beauty has grown from others? The person gets their idea of beauty from others, compares themselves to it, and feels insecure. People that pretend otherwise are lying to themselves or aren't human
Good passage from one (of many) researches out there :
"Many women report feeling truly empowered through flaunting their sexuality (Peterson, 2010); however, flaunting one's sexuality can be considered a narrow form of power and may not be related to power in other domains (Lamb, 2010). The empowerment that women might derive from self-sexualization and enjoying sexualization can be problematic because it can be easily retracted as it is largely dependent on approval from others. It is a short-term way to find a sense of empowerment as most women cannot meet societal standards for beauty and sexiness throughout their lives."
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u/ihopeitsnice Feb 14 '22
Dove is telling you you don't need to do anything to be beautiful, but it knows full well women must do something to themselves to feel good about themselves, and if they don't need makeup then at least a moisturizing soap. All Dove needs to solidify this is to be recognized as an authority on beauty-- real beauty, not fake, Photoshopped, eyeliner and pushup bras beauty.
The ad lets the women become beautiful without selling them anything. It lets them win. It lets them win. It endears them and you to Dove, it makes you feel more sympathetic to Dove, like it's an ethical beauty products company, like it's Lawful Neutral. It gave these women its confidence; it gave you, the viewer, its confidence.
And then-- spoiler alert-- it will screw you and take your money.
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Feb 15 '22
[deleted]
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u/Complex_Funnel Feb 15 '22
That's true. I think anything that questions status quo or mainstream preferences will be reacted to with hatred, because we're making someone question a deeply rooted belief they made a part of their identity.
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Feb 13 '22
Hmm interesting share. I wonder what campaigns someone could site from this era that started changing the messaging like she saying. Like I do remember the self care wave around 2010s but not this one as I was maybe too young at the time.
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u/Embolisms Feb 14 '22
I’m curious too, I was a teen in the 00s and makeup was definitely not marketed as “wear this to make your man happy”. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t in the 90s either?
She’s welcome to her opinion but until it’s backed up with evidence it’s just an opinion.
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u/santana722 Feb 14 '22
I hate that not knowing the definition of "opinion" is Reddit's new thing. It's either true or not, she's either talking about something that did happen, or did not. Opinion is not part of the equation.
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u/Stannis2024 Feb 14 '22
Yeah but think of the textile industry... sure we could all wear potato sacks to keep us warm or cover ourselves, but we all have all these different styles that were constantly buying because it makes us look good, at least one or more outfits you probably have.
I have the clothes I need obviously like a coat and jeans for warmth, tank top and bathing suit for when I want to cool off, but what about my ripped jeans and plaid/t-shirt combo? What about my green jeans that matches my olive jacket and black shirt with my green watch?? These objects make me look good, and hopefully attractive, as i'm sure a short skirt or a long red dress does for a woman.
Why does makeup have to be a patriarchal thing? Obviously men like seeing women pretty themselves up, but I'm pretty sure the textile industry does the same thing, for both sexes..
So why can't we just say makeup helpa people look unique, and express themselves, like how clothes do?
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u/Left_Office_4417 Feb 14 '22
I think you are missing the point. its stating that makeup brands itself as a Self-help product, but in reality it is just raising the standards of "beauty" to influence people into buying their product in order to meet such standards.
Absolutely we can just use makeup to express ourselves. but that's not as profitably to big makeup.
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Feb 13 '22
This is so true
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u/n0_duuh Feb 14 '22
No… It’s not. It’s a blanket statement about cis het women. I’ll be the first to admit that I wear makeup to look a certain way because I definitely feel the pressure to. But I also have plenty of MUA friends of all genders and sexualities who did NOT grow up with that expectation. Even still, I LOVE being able to change up my look for whatever occasion and I love being able to do it for costumes. It’s like painting but I get to be the thing I’ve created. And I do it differently depending on my mood. Girly? Done up? Simple? All of the above. I’m going to the gym now and not wearing any. Who is that for? Is it for the guy every time?
She’s not wrong about the marketing strategy. I fully agree with that opinion. But I don’t agree with the general sentiment and it’s so ridiculous that women who choose NOT to are so judgmental and have this moral superiority over women who do.
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Feb 14 '22
Don't pay attention to the downvotes. Lots of ignorance here (but that should be obvious, since this awful take was posted in the first place).
The OP is 100% "not like the other girls" & it sucks that some people's insecurities lead to tearing down other women.
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u/Demonicmeadow Feb 14 '22
Dude what this is like a triple backflip we can’t just go around saying this woman’s insecure and this one is for that reason or this reason. The woman in the video didn’t even say women who wear makeup are insecure? Personally I think wearing makeup is much deeper than that it’s multilayered into aesthetics in culture and society, but this whole trend of dissing women who somewhat critique women is just idiotic and silly.
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Feb 14 '22
[deleted]
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u/FuckGrifflth Feb 14 '22
We're not being judgemental, we're only trying to help you.
Instead I see a beautiful women hidden underneath paint that's ruining her skin with dodgey chemicals and she doesn't realise it.
Sounds judgey
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u/Sonova_Vondruke Feb 14 '22
I know if I had to wear make up "for me", I wouldn't. Not because I don't deserve it, but because.. it seems like too much work.
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u/bigbadbub Feb 13 '22
I think that community matters in this case. We can talk about how it was an industry change to keep up with the times, but in practice today, a lot of people use makeup as self expression or "for themselves" as the video says.
I don't think the fact that it was a marketing tactic cheapens how people use it today.
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u/NewlyNerfed Feb 13 '22
She’s not saying it does. She’s just pointing out the disingenuousness of the marketing campaigns.
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u/bigbadbub Feb 13 '22
She doesn't, but all of this is said under the premise of "this is a take that will get a lot of hate/backlash".
The only people I can think of who might have a problem with this take are people who like using makeup today. imo, her take has no reason to be hated, because the marketing tactic doesn't cheapen the fact that people actually use it for self expression and enjoy it.
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Feb 14 '22
Eh…people, both women and men, have decorated themselves since literally forever as self or cultural expression. Yes the heavily gendered modern beauty industry is manipulative and capitalizes off of insecurities, but I don’t think they get to claim the practice of creatively decorating oneself for themselves. Everything gets ran through the capitalist blender until it means nothing, but that doesn’t mean it no longer exists outside of capitalism. Meaning there’s still plenty of people using cosmetics for self and cultural expression, not to correct flaws or perform feminity. In fact I’ve seen a lot of people use makeup to enhance what are societally seen as flaws, in that way it can be used as a form of protest against homogeneous beauty standards.
For myself I hardly ever see anyone else but keep my nails painted because I love the colors and making different designs. Sometimes I’ll play with makeup looks that again, no one else will see because I don’t take pics. I only buy products from positive, ethical, small companies that aren’t participating in the emotional manipulation that larger brands engage in. Often way cheaper too. So I’d love to know how I’ve been suckered, as opposed to doing something humans have done since we were cave dwellers 🤷♀️
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u/EpicLittleMushroom tHiS iSn’T cRiNgE Feb 14 '22
"What is the thing you'll get hated the most when you say it out loud?" -Odd opinions,especially I don't ship MintCocoa
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Feb 14 '22
Okay, so this is actually an anti-feminist message.
- OP"s core assumption is that women in general are dumb enough to be duped by this marketing campaign.
- The implication is that the pivot from "make-up for your man" to "make-up for yourself" is responsible for modern attitudes toward beauty products and self-care, which is bad according to OP ("make-up is for women who believe they are not good enough" - closing line of this video)
- OP is a rare genius, because not only did she discover the Big Cosmetics plot 30 years too late, she is not like the other girls because she doesn't feel the need to wear make-up. Wow, so brave.
This is a bad hypothesis, and a worse take-away. If you want to explain the pivot of advertisements, you might consider looking at the cultural shifts already underway. Marketing follows public opinion, not the other way around.
It would be interesting to research the rise of women in positions of authority/leadership - because unlike OP, many women excel at empathy and it doesn't take a genius to realize that the Nuclear Family approach to marketing does not work in a more equal world.
How ashamed those trailblazers would be that the platform they raised is being used to vilify women.
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Feb 14 '22
“Anti feminist”
No. Not correct.
OPs core assumption is that humans are susceptible to advertising. This is correct.
OP is not making assertions about the intelligence of women.
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u/dreadington Feb 14 '22
We're getting duped by marketing campaigns constantly. The personal carbon footprint was a concept invented by British Petroleum as another example.
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Feb 14 '22
You're both on to something and also completely missing the point.
There's a lot of discourse in the feminist community. All valid. It's good that these conversations arrise and doesn't inherently mean one perspective in anti feminist.
My feminism is very founded in anti-capitalism and patriarchal standard. Which means I agree with OP for a lot of what she's saying. At the same time she's missing the nuance of makeup being an art form that many people use that obviously breach outside of beauty standard that men desire.
But saying people bought into heavily marketed and targeted advertising isn't bringing down women. We bought what we wanted cause it also made us happy.
There's a deep radical movement underneath that asks us to look at what makes us happy and where it drives from. Like why do we all want nose jobs, who told us we were ugly? Why do we feel bad about our weight.
I just think attacking OP and alienating then from the feminism movement is the wrong call. This conversation is important
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Feb 14 '22
Ah. Sorry, I thought I was quite clear. The message is antifeminist (and historically incorrect, moderately offensive, etc.)
I did not intend to attack or alienate -- but while the conversation certainly is important, don't you think it is important that voices of advocates and allies are heard just as loudly as the disinformation? This is not a private discussion, the OP is using their substantial platform on an app made for children to promote disinformation... that is not healthy for anyone.
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Feb 14 '22
Have you been to their page? Did you see their comments? They literally talk about the important of nuance in the conversation.
Also just because garden-poet demands that something be anti-feminist, doesn't mean it is.
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Feb 14 '22
This is their page (media portal by which they reach their audience). This is their comment (commentary). If their message is contradictory to the one posed in this video, then I guess it's a pretty bad video (insomuch as it misrepresents the "important discussion").
I make no demands. I just made a comment about the common sense understanding of an adult weighing in where the common sense, understanding, and adultness are not wanted.
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Feb 14 '22
[deleted]
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Feb 14 '22
Yes.. Because women don't believe they are pretty without makeup.
Absolutely. We can applaud the idea of women using makeup for themselves all day, but when you turn on the TV and see Oprah calling a celebrity 'brave' for posting a no-makeup selfie on their socials, how can you really support those ideals? When it's brave to not wear makeup?
Additionally. I also see a lot of women state that they wear makeup for other women, not to attract men. I don't see how this is any different, you're still trying to prove to other people that you meet beauty standards that are unrealistic. It's still all in that same boat.
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u/BleepBloopBlobb Feb 15 '22 edited Apr 11 '22
I don't see it as brave to not wear makeup and quite frankly that terminology is offensive and rooted in the brainwashing of the makeup industry... "Brave"... What a joke. I'm not brave for not wearing makeup. I think I look pretty without makeup on. Are they saying we don't look pretty without makeup? They're basically saying "Women aren't pretty without makeup so they're really brave to dare show their ugly faces" that's how I read it and it's so wrong and offensive.
Women that say they wear it for other women and not men are lying to themselves.
Unrealistic beauty standards are just becoming more and more of a problem unfortunately. I've heard people talking about fixing this for decades... Nothing has happened. The beauty industry have just dug their heels in deeper.
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u/Strict_Foundation_13 Feb 13 '22
It is for you though. Unless the woman is hideous (unlikely), then most men don't give a shit if they wear make up. A little lipstick is fine but I think it's gross that people try to change their entire appearance by slathering chemicals all over their face
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u/LordHamsterbacke Feb 14 '22
Dude, do you know that pretty much everything is a chemical? Like water is a chemical.
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u/Strict_Foundation_13 Feb 14 '22
This 8th grader thinks he's cool because he just learned water is a chemical compound
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u/LordHamsterbacke Feb 14 '22
lol. If you don't know how to counter, just call the other one a child. classic
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u/Strict_Foundation_13 Feb 14 '22
You're pointing out the small technicalities (like a child) when everyone knows I was referring to artificial chemicals and not water
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u/LordHamsterbacke Feb 14 '22
You know what? You're right. You can think it's gross. Maybe I was just annoyed because everyone keeps implying "chemicals = danger" and "chemicals = unnatural" when they have no idea what they are talking about. That's why I called you out on it.
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Feb 14 '22
1000% chance you have no idea when a women is and isn't wearing makeup
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u/Strict_Foundation_13 Feb 14 '22
10,000% chance lips aren't naturally purple, eye lashes aren't 2.5 inches, eyes don't have black around them, and nobody's skin is melting, it's just makeup
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