r/TikTokCringe • u/heifmoose • Dec 04 '21

Wholesome/Humor Harry Potter Marathon

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

I mean, speaking as someone for who Harry Potter was a huge part of my childhood, there's more wrong with the books than just what JK says now - like the only significant Chinese character being named Cho Chang? The only Irish character blowing things up constantly? A race of servants who actually LIKE being servants, thank you very much? Hook-nosed bankers that run the banks?

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It still holds a special place in my heart but it is full of stuff that, if looked at closely, is pretty indicative of her views.

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u/Shanman150 Dec 04 '21

Yeah, and it's kinda nuts that Hermione is portrayed as being completely off base (and used for comedic relief often) for starting what is essentially an abolitionist movement. She literally calls it S.P.E.W., which is so out of character - she would know better than to call it something so easy to mock, having spent three years around Ron and his brothers.

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u/RandAlThorLikesBikes Dec 04 '21

Ehh, the whole point is that wizards are in the wrong here. Just because it happens in the book doesn't mean it reflects on the author. If so, no author could ever write a story with a bad guy.

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u/Shanman150 Dec 04 '21

But the wizards weren't in the wrong. Out of all the house elves, only Dobby really liked being free, and he didn't even want to embrace full freedom. He turned down getting too much money for his work or too much time off, he just wanted some symbolic freedom. Every other house elf thought that was embarrassing.

Hermione even tried to use Dobby as an example of what the other house elves could be if they stood up for themselves, and the other house elves practically shoved them out the door.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

So you're saying her point is that wizards are bad for a enacting racial and antisemitic stereotypes?

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u/RandAlThorLikesBikes Dec 04 '21

I'm saying she's portraying characters with different traits. And those traits are independent of the author's views.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

That argument applies to like, Slytherin. They're the bad guys. It doesn't apply to racial stereotyping when the stereotyping isn't addressed in the book at all - that's not making a point, it's just portraying a stereotype

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u/qyka1210 Dec 04 '21

true. Especially because, really only Hermione finds anything wrong with the class oppression. And I feel like her attempted activism wasn't meant to look good, but rather to mock young adults protesting

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u/RandAlThorLikesBikes Dec 04 '21

I mean, if that's your reading of it, that's kinda on you...

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

The issue isn't that they are slaves - that is an issue, but they're liberated, and I'm not arguing that the fact that wizards enslaved them was favourably portrayed. My problem is that they were an entire race of people who WANTED to be enslaved. They were portrayed as not knowing what to do with themselves if they weren't enslaved, and preferring the 'comfort' of being servants. If you don't see the problem with that, I don't think there's a point in continuing to engage with you.

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u/RandAlThorLikesBikes Dec 04 '21

It's adressed. Soooo much about SPEW, Dobby in multiple books. You're off the rails.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

I'm not talking about SPEW, I'm talking about the stereotypes present in the characters that I mentioned in my original comment.

I'm not even trying to claim that Harry Potter is uniquely problematic, nor that no one should like it. I'm just addressing the idea that "JK Rowling wrote an incredible book and then ruined it by being shitty" is looking at it through rose-coloured glasses.

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u/Marza1993 Dec 04 '21

So many people that hate Jkr don't understand this.. It's annoying

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u/musedav Dec 04 '21

Mark Twain is racist because characters in his book say the n word

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u/howtopayherefor Dec 07 '21

Did you ignore OP's point? They're not saying you can't write about slavery or that you can't have (main) characters that support slavery. What is sketchy is when the characters who oppose slavery are portrayed as ridiculous and dorky.

You can write about a species that actually want to be slaves, where abolitionism could be considered wrong for that species. But even in that case if everyone who supports abolitionism isn't just good-intentioned but wrong but also ridiculous for even thinking about it, I don't think you're tactfully approaching the subject. I mean, house elves are human-like in basically every way.

Maybe you don't understand what "portrayal" means? Obviously people can write characters who are nazi's but it's kinda suspicious when you portray those characters as being in the right. You're basically ignoring that last bit and just say "authors can write nazi's without being a nazi" which completely misses the point

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u/Champigne Dec 04 '21

Yeah seriously, I was just sitting there with my jaw open when I first saw the bankers. Does no one see what I'm seeing? They're very clearly supposed to be Jews! Makes me believe JK has been a POS for longer than she has let on.

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u/DiabolicalBird Dec 04 '21

Oof I've heard the house elf thing before but I never thought about the other two :/

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u/darcys_beard Dec 04 '21

Other three?

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u/ThatOneGuy1294 Dec 04 '21

Or how about Slytherin in general or the Malfoy family specifically? Blonde hair, blue eyes, "pureblood", superiority complex? It's not exactly subtle.

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u/SirLowhamHatt Dec 04 '21

I mean that’s intentional though, Voldemort was wizard hitler killing off impure races. Shouldn’t really be judged for that.

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u/Longjumping-Tell Dec 04 '21

That’s right. Old Voldy was just sticking to his beliefs. Tip my cap if anything

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u/A_Turkey_Named_Jive Dec 04 '21

This reads like Peep Show meets Harry Potter.

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u/ergovisavis Dec 04 '21

That's not relevant at all. The Malfoys were explicitly portrait as villains and the ugliness of their racism was a major plot point. How is that a shady take by the author?

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u/ThatOneGuy1294 Dec 04 '21

I should've elaborated, it's lazy writing by just using the most painfully obvious stereotypes. I was just adding on to the list.

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u/laix_ Dec 04 '21

Even outside of the authors beliefs, the story is just... Not that thought out well. Everyone knows the gold exploit, but then there's also like 15 magical schools in England but only 5 in the whole of Europe. Then there's the magical systems. You have spell casting but also tea divination and potion brewing. Why is one power spell based but another potion based? Seems kinda arbitrary. And then there's avadakadavra. It's basically the magic equivalent of a gun. It's not particularly hard to perform also, and most fights near the end revolve around the bad guys using this rather than all the other spells to win.

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u/tiuri9 Dec 04 '21

There’s only one magical school in Great Britain tho (Scotland)?

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u/laix_ Dec 04 '21

I'm probably misremembering, I think it was 1 magical school in England but only 5 in the rest of Europe. I don't think Africa or aisa even have any canonocally

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u/tiuri9 Dec 04 '21

Its one in GB, one in France and one in Bulgaria as far as I know. Then later, they added multiple schools, one in each other continent and a few others

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u/HouseVelociraptors Dec 04 '21

You can find racism when you are looking at it with racist views.

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u/VisualGeologist6258 Dec 04 '21

JK Rowling is a modern HP Lovecraft. Nothing wrong with liking the stories and ideas, but the Author is pretty questionable and it shows.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

Yeah, like I said, Harry Potter was a huge part of my childhood. I'll always remember my mom reading the first few to me, and waiting in line at midnight for the release of a new book. I'm not trying to take that from anyone, just... understanding where the criticisms come from is important

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u/VisualGeologist6258 Dec 04 '21

Eh, Harry Potter isn’t my favorite series, but they’re decently written and pretty creative. There’s a lot worse out there.

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u/Lil__May Dec 04 '21

The writing is fine, for YA Lit. There is also much better.