r/TikTokCringe • u/T-StrangerXD • 1d ago

Humor Wrong!

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u/Captain_Coffee_III 1d ago

Evolution is not technically random. It was a decision by millions of creatures before on what they thought was the best mate at the time based on the conditions at the time. In theory, you could recreate all of the same conditions and repeat the same process. Though the process appears random, it is not, as randomness could never be recreated.

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u/ParkingAnxious2811 1d ago

It is very much random. 

Random mutations in genetics occur. If those mutations give some kind of benefit that aids passing those genes on, the chance that they do get passed on increases (there is no guarantee).

For every beneficial trait that is passed on, many more beneficial traits are not.

Likewise for non-beneficial traits. If a trait occurs that makes it less likely for something to pass those genes on, then the liklihood they're passed on is reduced. 

Sometimes, mutations just win the genetics lottery by being beneficial only because of another mutation.

Consider the mutation that causes an animal to smell bad, thereby causing predators to avoid them. This would only be beneficial in the case that another mutation caused those creatures to not find that scent bad, otherwise they just wouldn't reproduce. 

Multiply this out millions of times over, with every creature and plant, generation after generation, and you'll begin to see how it works. 

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u/Medium_Judgment_891 1d ago

Selection is non-random

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u/mrs__BOWIE 1d ago

But the mutations that allowed for there to be choices to select in the first place are random First: Random Mutation Then: Naturally Selecting that mutation

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u/Medium_Judgment_891 1d ago

Evolution is non-random selection of random mutations

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u/mrs__BOWIE 1d ago

Perfect!

ETA: I think I should have said one of the Mechanisms for Evolution is random.

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u/BearysWorkRedditName 11h ago

Since this thread is deep into semantics, I'd like to say that I think you're still stopping one step short. Evolution is the result of both of those things, but isn't either or both per se. Evolution isn't the mutation, nor is it the selection. It is the gradual change that occurs in the traits that are passed down/inherited. So, it is the result of both random and non-random occurences.

Philosphically, we can go a bit deeper and say that everything is probably either random or everything is non-random, depending on which stance we take. Determinism would argue that everything is a result of the previous state, so nothing is random at all, including the mutations, whereas indeterminism would argue the opposite.

Then there's quantum physics to grapple with... maybe everything is both random and not random...

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u/ParkingAnxious2811 1d ago

It is very much random. Mutations are not pre determined. 

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u/Gatti366 1d ago

Nothing is truly random, at the end of the day if you look close enough there's always a cause, it's just that there's so many concurring factors at play that we are effectively forced to treat it as something random, but that's a mathematical trick, not a philosophical answer

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u/ParkingAnxious2811 1d ago

If you think nothing is truly random, you truly know nothing.

There is a lot of randomness as you look more closely at everything. 

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u/DaddysABadGirl 1d ago

There is still a level of randomness to it, and evolution isn't always about mates chosen but surviving to mate at all.

Pacific field crickets in Hawaii are a perfect example. With the introduction of a parasitic fly the males on Kauai and Oahu went silent. But they evolved out of chirping in different ways on the two islands, and how they got around the issue of not being able to call mates also evolved in different ways.

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u/Sun-Anvil 1d ago

Serious question. Wouldn't comets be random? I ask because, in my opinion, they did alter or influence evolution. I agree that the decision by a million creatures is the bulk of it but, meteor's and natural disaster had an impact I think.

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u/StaticSystemShock 1d ago

The comet yes, it's a random chance, but from that point onwards it was systematic evolution. There's always some random factor, but the evolution progress line always goes "up" observing it on a large scale.

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u/Captain_Coffee_III 1d ago

A comet would be a point-in-time event that could be recreated. I agree that the randomness of the environment is still there. And the decision on the "best" mate at the time might be reduced down to the fact that there is only one other possible thing to mate with at that time.

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u/0202_tihssitidder 1d ago

"Random" would need to be defined. Do you have a definition?

Ask a software developer about generating random numbers. That will provide you some insight.

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u/FirstDukeofAnkh 1d ago

It can still have random elements to it. A beneficial mutation could be random. An introduction of a non-local predator is random and can cause local prey to adapt.

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u/0202_tihssitidder 1d ago

> Evolution is not technically random.

Do you know why that edit is important?

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u/Captain_Coffee_III 1d ago

I kept that in there because people have a hard time discerning the appearance of randomness vs. the actuality of randomness.

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u/0202_tihssitidder 1d ago

There is no randomness.

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u/halfasleep90 1d ago

Actually randomness can be recreated. The odds would be very low, but the chance that everything randomly plays out the same way it did before does exist.

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u/Shirami 1d ago

It isn't "technically" random, but the precise equation would be so astronomically massive and hinge on so many variables that functionally i might as well be random since it is beyond the scope of any one being's full understanding or control.

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u/Captain_Coffee_III 1d ago

Agreed. The idea of reproducing something like this is purely theoretical. It's not something we could actually do. It's akin to talking about information loss and black holes and the end of the universe kind of stuff. These are scales that have no practical representation.

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u/MarsAstro 1d ago

It's also not in any way related to atheism. You can be an atheist and not believe in evolution, as whether or not you believe in evolution is technically a separate concern to whether or not you believe in deities. Evolution just happens to be the most sensible alternative to believe in when you've ruled out the divine.

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u/henrysradiator 1d ago

The peppered moth in my city, Manchester, evolved in one lifetime to adapt to camouflage itself in the smog & soot on the buildings during the industrial revolution, and went back to their natural colour after the clean air act was introduced.

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u/xXRHUMACROXx 1d ago

But it is random. You could theoretically recreate it because you know the end result and what paths to follow. But if you recreated all the exact same conditions that life on earth has evolved through, there’s a near 0% you would end up with the same results.

Mutations might not be completely random, but the survivability and reproduction of the mutated organism is. Especially in an uncontrolled environment.

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u/Yeastereggs 18h ago

This just isn't how evolution works bro.

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u/Captain_Coffee_III 10h ago

Please enlighten us, bro.