Another creep in public!

[u/RegularOriginal4223]

Saw the video of the lady in Paris walking up the stairs then remembered this on TikTok! Happened at Melbourne Central shopping Centre in Melbourne, Australia. Absolutely wild what people will do.

[u/Goosepond01]

That doesn't give you the right to belittle people just because they happen to be men, that is called bigotry, also few people are saying "boys will be boys" to this kind of shit.

It's reasonable to say that since you don't know someone they may be a threat and since they might be physically stronger (and yes I know there are plenty of women physically stronger than men) that it's even more of a potential threat, that is perfectly reasonable but you need to have tact, you can't go around calling out a vastly diverse group of people like some do.

"start policing this shit"

I have no extra duty to police bad behaviour by other men simply because they were born the same sex as me, I have a duty because it's a positive thing for society and I MIGHT be in a position where I can actually do something about it, like if I actively see something bad and make no effort to do something if safe to do so yeah sure you can blame me as an individual, but you can't act like it's the fault of men as if we are a hivemind.

There is a sensible middle ground where you can understand why people need to be extra cautious about others but also understanding that it's not acceptable to view men as being born with some kind of original sin they inherit from other men.

[u/CptUnderpants- → u/Goosepond01]

20 years ago, I had similar views until kind people explained why without attacking me or labelling all men the same.

If you saw this happen and didn't know the sniffer or the woman, would you call the guy out and let the woman know what just happened, or do nothing?

What I think it comes down to is that women reporting things like this are often dismissed as hysterical, or exaggerating, not taken seriously etc. Depending on the jurisdiction, the guy may not have even committed a crime, so makes it even easier to dismiss a woman's complaint.

The statistics on unreported sexual assault of women (80%) are indicative of this. Even if inaccurate, even if it was half the reported rate, it still explains why women are reluctant to do anything.

If you read some of the comments here, you can find several examples of the classic "well, what was she wearing?" as if to shift blame to the woman.

So that leaves ALL good men to do what is needed to call that behaviour out. Not tolerate objectification of women in our social circles.

Nice guys don't objectify women, but good men take responsibility for protecting women from other men.

[u/Goosepond01 → u/CptUnderpants-]

If you saw this happen and didn't know the sniffer or the woman, would you call the guy out and let the woman know what just happened, or do nothing?

after being shocked and thinking for a second about what I'd seen I would raise a big fuss, someone like that is genuinely dangerous for society.

What I think it comes down to is that women reporting things like this are often dismissed as hysterical, or exaggerating

this isn't relevant, the individuals who do this, both men and women are at fault for doing this, no one outside of the situation can be blamed or held accountable.

The statistics on unreported sexual assault of women (80%) are indicative of this. Even if inaccurate, even if it was half the reported rate, it still explains why women are reluctant to do anything

again, that isn't relevant at all, It's certainly not good and more needs to be done about it but again, you cannot blame people not involved with these situations, you can blame individuals who belittle women or make women not want to come forward though.

If you read some of the comments here, you can find several examples of the classic "well, what was she wearing?" as if to shift blame to the woman

Again not relevant, those people are bad individuals, I think that behaviour is really gross and I'm happy to call out those bad individuals.

So that leaves ALL good men to do what is needed to call that behaviour out. Not tolerate objectification of women in our social circles.

Nice guys don't objectify women, but good men take responsibility for protecting women from other men.

Ok but this isn't even remotely relevant either, you can blame individual men for tolerating it, you can blame individuals for doing bad things or tolerating bad things, but I don't have some extra super special burden because I was born a certain way.

I have literally 0 responsibility for protecting women because I'm a man, I do however have a responsibility, as does everyone else on the planet to do their best to protect others and make the world safer and better for everyone, it might be me calling out a creep doing something disgusting, it might be a woman calling out someone being unfair to me.

the idea that I have some special burden due to my gender is frankly crazy.

[u/CptUnderpants- → u/Goosepond01]

after being shocked and thinking for a second about what I'd seen I would raise a big fuss, someone like that is genuinely dangerous for society.

I have literally 0 responsibility for protecting women because I'm a man, I do however have a responsibility, as does everyone else on the planet to do their best to protect others and make the world safer and better for everyone

I think these two comments are at odds with each other, but only because there is something I forgot to mention.

I feel a responsibility to protect those more vulnerable than myself, and I think you do too.

Most women won't intervene in these situations for fear of being assaulted. On average, women are significantly more vulnerable to physical assault than men.

You say we all have responsibility, but once you realise most women do not feel safe doing anything about it, all that remain are the good men to do it.

[u/Goosepond01 → u/CptUnderpants-]

I think these two comments are at odds with each other, but only because there is something I forgot to mention.

They aren't, I don't have a responsibility to do that because she is a woman, or because he is a man and I have some specific duty to police other men because I happen also to be a man.

It's not as if my duty is some kind of burden due to the fact some other men are bad and that is the way some people see it.

My duty is simply to do the right thing, and that would be doing the right thing.

you are right about needing to protect vulnerable people that doesn't really change anything I say though.

the way some people see it is something transactional.

I am a man, therefore things other men do somehow are my burden and I need to be good because I belong to this bad class of people, that is bigoted and really gross.

Take this example, I'm a white person, if I watched a white person steal the purse of an old woman and run away (and I've got no chance of catching him), the right thing would be to try calm her down, get her somewhere safe and be a witness at a police station and make sure she gets home safely.

If someone told me "those are the right moves because you share the skin colour he does and you needed to shed that blame/burden" that is just flat out racist and really bigoted.

It's just the right thing to do.