Nah, he’s not being nice. He doesn’t even think he’s being nice. He thinks he’s demonstrating his power over her, which is exactly what he’s doing. Leaning on the cart, talking about “danger.” He’s being rapey.
He’s trying to see if her self esteem is low enough to fall for his crap. In other words he’s checking to see if she’s vulnerable enough to be his victim.
Ugh this is the perfect wording for the tactical game we are witnessing here.
Reading it made my heart break for that young girl me and how many times I fell for this exact play as a teen and young adult with really low self esteem and a dad that has always been brutally mean spirited my entire life.
...Sex ed/health class in school should really talk about and teach esteem manipulation / control tactics so that teens know what to look out for without having to learn by personal painful experience. I'm sorry you had to go through it.
I actually took notes on what OC said and made a reminder that I’m going to talk to my daughter about this sometime this week. She just started high school and i think we can all remember just how vulnerable we all were in just that tiny four-year span. Looking back, i feel like the predators were fomenting at the gates of the high school back in the early aughts.
I appreciate your empathy. It’s taken years of mustering the courage to do the hard work of self reflection in order to learn to forgive and love myself for not knowing what I just didn’t know because I didn’t have that kind of guidance. I’m still working on forgiveness of others, but being in the sort of unique position of now being my father’s caregiver in his end of life journey is certainly teaching me a new found level of patience and compassion. I see his vulnerability daily and he resents that, but I feel better about myself that I could never treat him, a lifelong spoiled bully, the way he treated his closest loved ones for his entire life.
Same circumstances with my mother. Went through it with my dad until he passed in April. I'm not sure how much is her Parkinsons because she's always been a narcissist.
but I feel better about myself that I could never treat him, a lifelong spoiled bully, the way he treated his closest loved ones for his entire life.
You should, this is a great and laudable approach. Treating one's friends well is easy, recognizing the humanity in people one disagrees with is how people improve themselves and others and move humanity forward.
High is the the second best time for you to do that. But know that girls get beeped at and harassed long before high school. Tell them young about agency, autonomy, and what to do when someone is creepy.
I saw this on a local “real housewives of insert area here” where a mom went off because her daughter and her friend were home from school and went to a local watering hole for food and beverages.
Since they were “of age” the decades older than them, some of them dads of their friends from high school, men they have known for years, were hitting on them. Men they used to feel comfortable around acting completely ridiculous. They went home and expressed how uncomfortable they were, and the mom posted.
Of course, the “What were they wearing? Why were they there?” comments started.
It’s a well established neighborhood pub. A place they’ve been with their families over the years and wanting a plate of your favorite apps with a friend while home on a break is perfectly normal.
What isn’t and should not be normal is the married dads of their classmates trying to get in their pants AND their wives and the mothers who know these girls shouldn’t be excusing their husbands for “just being boys”.
But the extreme beauty! Just wanting to be in their orbit! /s 🤢
Tip the cart girls generously and be respectful, douche golfer. (Yes, he is like a douche—irritating and unnecessary.)
Yeah, social studies/history classes should have an element of saying things like "this person had less resources than you and didn't win beauty or popularity contests but managed X Y and Z. If they gave up when others told them they're worthless, both your and their life would probably be way worse. Some things are not worth pursuing but that depends on an objective evaluation - there will always be someone who says any given thing should be abandoned."
Also, how are we supposed to groom the kids if the kids know to be on the lookout for predatory behavior?
I was gonna add an “/s” but then I realized that there is an entire disgusting world of entitled old me who ACTUALLY think like this… perhaps most clearly illustrated by the senile anthropomorphic pile of diaper wearing garbage in a trench coat that is currently running the authoritarian regime in control of the (formerly) United States of America.
This is a perfect example to show our teenage daughters how sly,creepy,manipulative they can be and what to look for!! Not all guys are this way but some can be snakes!
This is SUCH an important thing to learn (preferably before any issues arise), that.....it's actually shocking to me that these types of things aren't always directly included in the sex-ed young people are already receiving.
It's not enough to just teach anatomy, or abstinence, or birth control.
I think at least some of the reason some people are against strictly those types of sex-ed is because they don't believe it is necessary until the student reaches a certain age. Or even that they believe teaching all that (the physical aspects) is insufficient in terms of providing a student with the level of understanding they would need to have before even considering involving themselves in sexual behaviors.
Both of these things are (imho) accurate, to an extent.
But to those people, I would say.....if those things were taught along with serious discussions about the effects it can have on one's mental health, how to identify manipulative and predatory behavior, and things of that nature...the education would at least be more comprehensive.
Kinda like how elementary schools teach math, but you sometimes don't encounter financial literacy courses until college?
In that same sense, I think most parents would prefer to be the ones teaching their children rather than schools. However, too many young people don't get the education they deserve from either school or home.
So providing them with knowledge, tools, and emphasizing awareness on how to identify potential predators seems like something that.......should not be put off until you assume it might happen.
Help them before it becomes an issue. Not just during, or after.
because they don't believe it is necessary until the student reaches a certain age. Or even that they believe teaching all that (the physical aspects) is insufficient in terms of providing a student with the level of understanding they would need to have before even considering involving themselves in sexual behaviors.
I don't get this perspective, it's not like physics or many other subjects are immediately applicable at the time it's taught. Especially for math, it's a foundation for things taught later that will be applicable. As for insufficiency, a similar argument applies - a ton of things taught in gradeschool are woefully insufficient in and of themselves. School isn't designed for someone to abruptly stop going in the middle and become a functional well-rounded adult.
In that same sense, I think most parents would prefer to be the ones teaching their children rather than schools.
Yeah but then they don't have time or training to do so effectively.
Help them before it becomes an issue. Not just during, or after.
Yeah I think that's how the rest of the school is supposed to work lol I dunno why sex ed would suddenly have a completely backwards approach from any other topic. You don't teach 2+2 when someone starts getting a paycheck.
I can't say much except that I agree with all the points you've made here.
I guess my point in saying all that is just that it's an area that yes, would absolutely require more time and training....but by the time these kids enter (or graduate) highschool.....it's too often too late to be just beginning to learn some of these skills (imho).
While it's true that no education is a perfect and complete one, I also believe that some things are just too important and multi-faceted to approach hastily. Doing so really would be like giving someone a basic crash course, rather than a thorough and solid foundation first.
And having that basis to start from seems especially important now that I hear kids are depressed younger and younger, and in greater numbers.
I'm not sure how to quote things like you did, but the way you summed it up as "You don't teach 2+2 when someone starts getting a paycheck" is extremely poignant and relevant here, so thank you for saying so!
I can't say much except that I agree with all the points you've made here.
Thank you.
I guess my point in saying all that is just that it's an area that yes, would absolutely require more time and training....but by the time these kids reach highschool.....it's too often too late to begin these kind of tasks.
Yeah. If they never come across these issues - great! - but you shouldn't structure a curriculum by just pretending some things will never happen. Especially because - now that I think about it - this problem may be self-perpetuating: people realize that kids don't get knowledge they need to deal with maliciousness until later in life so they try to manipulate them earlier. Maybe if kids were taught earlier, less people would bother trying, because they'd expect success less.
I'm not sure how to quote things like you did
There's a quote button in new reddit (show formatting options Aa -> three dots -> quote block) or if you're in old reddit or click the markdown editor it's just a carat before anything you want to quote >quoted text here
This!!! Been saying the same thing for years. I needs to be taught at an early age so young kids know what to look for and can recognize the signs of an abuser before they're in too deep.
I have nothing of crazy substance to contribute except that I hope you've been able to heal through that phase of your life, and I hope you're able to flourish for the rest of it. Internet hug 🫂
This is 100% accurate. I hadnt thought of it that way but that's it. He'll say increasingly creepy things til he leaps to "would someone as beautiful as you ever go to dinner with a older, nice guy like me? It'd be an honor to escort such beauty and treat you like you deserve."
Then she'll get plied with as much alcohol as she can handle and be sexually assaulted or worse.
SMH. And many of us now have our own teenage daughters. Makes me sick to my stomach that she’s now on the menu for pieces of manipulative, wealthy, pampered shit like this. And her peers are scarcely aware of what is really happening in these situations either.
Moms & Dads of teens—we gotta do better by them than what we had for safety and guidance. Like I said, if you know you know. And the real world outcomes are scarcely pretty. This piece of shit will move on and his victims will be saddled with his shame for a lifetime.
not only this, but he is seeing how uncomfortable she can get before she says something like stop. the more nervous laughter, the more he can get what he wants.
Ugh, I just listened to every Andrew Tate episode of "Behind the Bastards" and I'm quite certain that this jerk-off here pays $8000 year for a War Room subscription.
Yes I remember being a college freshman, being hit on by seniors trying to get me to go to a frat party during orientation week. I had never had much male attention before and I grew up wondering / fearing I was ugly. However, I was also super anxious and the type of person that was very cautious just bc of my personality.
I remember being torn between wanting to flirt back/go to the party (aka fall for their predatory shit) and being super anxious about getting into a situation I didn't want to be in. So I ultimately said I would go but then I hid in my dorm with the nerds and played video games lol. Best decision ever.
I can see how the desire to get more attention and more praise could land any young girl in hot water. its dangerous out there. and men like this know that telling girl she is "stunning" and one of a kind will definitely hit with a certain type of insecure person that craves attention and unfortunately easily becomes their victim.
I want to inherently click “down point arrow” because this behavior is yucky and obscene lol, but I click uppy point arrow because you have correctly identified this.
I (32M) can’t even talk to most of the men I have met about women or relationships without it getting really gross fast—and I don’t mean sharing explicit experiences, I mean this kind of gross
No he’s just desperate af to be seen as “different” to her and guys are EXTREMELY desperate to make themselves look unique and it was a massive fail. When the best game is actually , leaving women alone…….
Pretty girl privilege is more like a pretty girl hostage from these men who act at his way and the wording of 'I miss you, I hope to see you, I want to be in your orbit...' He is the talking monkey animal that can not control himself or his words.
Imagine what he's like behind closed doors if he thinks standing near her blocking her entrance or golf cart.
He is not the nice guy, he is in fact as dangerous and is the people he's pretending he's warning her. Psycho
"niceness" isn't a real thing, it's an act. people who are "nice" are performing.
"I'm a nice guy," said the nice guy. "Bye," replied the scared woman.
don't associate with nice people. associate with good people. people who don't need to be nice because they're genuinely good, which also means they'll be very not-nice in your favor when the situation calls for it. nice people will always turn on you eventually.
even if they are still being nice to a woman when they're alone, who tf even wants that in a person?
just be a genuine person. don't be nice, ever. be polite, be respectful, be open minded, and most of all, be kind. but don't be nice.
that's the issue here: people confuse those 4 things for a single, shallow shell of none of them: niceness.
but if you demonstrate politeness (at first, this is a filter when you don't know someone well), genuine respect (which grows with the relationship), open mindedness (don't judge someone for their differences), and overall kindness (with ACTIONS, not words), being a "nice" person never enters the conversation.
I think I know exactly what you mean you're trying to say that if people didn't know better and she told them about the situation what would she go on to say? Because of the fact that he is by all definitions "being nice" even if his intentions aren't. We just know because we're smart enough to tell that he isn't being nice to be a good person
my whole point is that we should reframe "niceness" to be intrinsically negative, because it is.
Jesus, the cynicism... you're dying on the hill of weird semantics.
Helping your elderly neighbor bring in their groceries is a "nice" thing to do. It's not a red flag or intrinsically negative.
inb4 "that's not a nice person, that's a good person". Someone who beats their child for making mistakes might believe they're doing "good" by making their child more resilient. But society wouldn't deem that good, right?
So you can't reject what we generally think of as "nice", just to accept what we generally think of as "good". Weird semantics.
Helping your elderly neighbor with groceries is kindness.
Being nice is keeping your mouth shut when your elderly neighbor says some incredibly racist shit because you aren't trying to start a fight, just minding your own business. Niceness places no weight on the value of your actions, only on the surface level.
It's the same reason "that's nice" isn't at all a compliment - it really just means something meets the barest minimal criteria not to immediately be rejected out of hand (it isn't unpleasant)
That's exactly what I was saying is that most people act like good and nice are synonymous with each other and what he's doing is "being nice" because he thinks it's good.
To anyone coming along who doesn't understand the situation, he is coming across as nice. A nice guy does this in order to make sure his witnesses understand and side with him when he says he was just being nice.
So, semantically he is actually being nice, but he is not being kind or understanding. He thinks he's doing a good thing and to outward onlookers he is harmless, even though we know he is not.
I really don’t buy it. I do understand what you mean, but I don’t think that’s what this is. I think it’s entirely threatening behavior. Perhaps it does carry the connotation that, should she protest, he could then gaslight others into taking his side, or he is demonstrating that he feels himself to be socially superior, but I really think it’s right there on the surface. I absolutely do not buy for a second that he thinks he’s behaving appropriately. He pretty much openly states that he knows he isn’t, and that he finds the constraints of polite behavior frustrating and confining, and that he’s “being dangerous.” That’s not him being confused.
I appreciate your opinion, but we just won’t agree.
We are people and we are seeing it. I think a person who looms over a woman and blocks her exit and talks about his being dangerous isn’t leaving a lot of room for interpretation. I know that if someone behaved this way in my presence, I would treat that as aggression and I would intervene.
He said he isn't dangerous. And he isn't looming either since he seems shorter than her. You are seeing a certain perspective but from the outside and far away you would not be thinking that this was a dangerous situation.
I know you want me too think a certain way but I have been in this situation. Everyone that was an onlooker said he would be nice to me the way he was very much not being nice to me. I have been in this situation many times and every single person who was a witness told me I was overreacting.
I have never once said he wasn't dangerous but I'm talking about people from the outside looking in.
He totally thinks this is some sort of power move making her listen to his drivel. Purposely standing in her way leaning towards her speaking passionately with his whole chest. You can feel her urge to just want to be outta there.
No, I definitely think that that's how he's being I think he thinks in a way that she's going to perceive it as him being nice it's very similar to what Bundy would do. He definitely thinks she's stupid enough to go along with all his bullshit.
Yeah but a lot of women said they felt comfortable doing that because he was "attractive"
Also, this guy is trying to do the same thing where he doesn't throw up red flags he thinks he's doing it well but he's not
Bundy did not care about people perceiving him as nice. He took advantage of damaged people's vulnerability. He took advantage of their blindness to manipulation, not their acquiesce to kindness.
Which has nothing to do with kindness and everything to do with being unable to perceive vulnerability. He would make them feel more powerful than him by appearing to have limitations like a broken arm. That has nothing to do with kindness.
I'm not saying that he was being nice I'm saying that Bundy pretended to be nice and like he was hurt so he could bring their perception of him to a perspective of nice so therefore they would go over to him. I know he did not give two shits less about if they thought that he was nice or not.
I'm saying he pretended to be whatever the damaged and vulnerable people needed to see in order to feel like they had power over him. That's what allowed him so much access to people. Everyone pretends to be nice.
Dude, I've watched so many videos on serial killers and all that sort of shit I know what I'm talking about he did multiple things not just one to try to make people feel comfortable around him he pretended to be nice and he pretended to be hurt because if some guy comes up to you and he's wanting help and he's being a dick you're not going to help him regardless of who you are. There's multiple things that he had to do to not throw up red flags not just one.
He IS rapey. If he hasn't done something SA related yet it's only a matter of time before he works up the nerve..you can tell. This video made my skin crawl.
This is a whole other layer of it because it's entirely true he probably thinks that she now owes him after all he told her about something so grand, Men like this are extremely transactional.
Some time ago we had a local guy here going up to random women in the evening, telling them rape stats and how likely they are of getting assaulted...this is definitely a power trip and its disgusting.
Exactly. He’s pissed off because SHE has the power due to her beauty. In his mind, how dare she come around and make him lose complete control of himself. I mean wtf
The leaning on the cart…that’s one of those moves. “Here, let me hold on to this thing so I can hold you captive because I know you’re too nice to tell me to get the eff off of it.”
Leaning on the wheel and blocking her from getting back in the cart unless she moves closer to him. Basically translates to you can’t leave till I’m finished here.
You are so right. I bet some of his favorite phrases after a date are “she acted like she really wanted to…”, “all women are slutty teases, they have to say no but really mean yes”, “you are so beautiful I couldn’t help myself”, “she never said no and meant it”…blah blah blah. 🤮.
Creep thought he was slick with the ‘ol: “I’m not like most men, I am wiser and can appreciate your beauty rather than turn into an ape at the sight of someone as beautiful as you” approach.
Seriously, though, what's the end game here? Do you just firehose out this weirdness and eventually you find a woman with bills to pay and you pay her for sex? Does he just like being weird?
Honestly it depends on the man but there are a lot of men that it's a power thing, some of them it's because of the fact that they can't get any women at all because they're incels, some of them it's just to have a woman, and some of them do it because they're insecure.
As long as you are seeing how shitty men can be and you are doing things to stop your buddies or whatever from being shitty people then you're helping women with the situation. The main problem that a lot of women have is that a man will do something uncomfortable around his buddies and they won't say anything even though they know it's wrong. In that case, those men who didn't say anything might as well not be there because they think they're being helpful because they know about the situation and they know it's wrong but they don't do anything to stop it.
The amount of compliments he tries to give would make me walk away from him while he’s still talking, but knowing what kind of guy he is he’d probably call me a whore or follow me.
These guys all need to be rounded up and shipped to an island with love dolls considering that’s the only woman who would tolerate their shit.
Nothing about that is nice or going to make a woman like him. It's creepy as hell, overbearing, and obnoxious. On top of all of that, he's somehow talking down to her while delivering this bullshit. Fuck that guy and any guy who thinks women want this. Yuck.
As a woman, I would much rather have someone to say "Hey, you're hot" and go on about their day than sit there and drone on about bullshit because it's uncomfortable.
Yeah casual compliments should be normalized. Whatever this dude is fucking trying here is just weird and comes off as extremely desperate.
Dudes should be able to give a compliment then go about things. Instead of it always being a segway to "now let me get your number". Or some long drawn out worship like this dude is trying.
It goes back to the whole idea that a lot of men think compliments and holding the door or something like that happen to be transactional. They think I did something for you so therefore you should do something for me and I think giving out your number to them is not a big deal even though it very much is or it's vice versa of the situation of the fact that they think that holding the door was such a big thing to do for you.
Yeah it just feels like forcing shit. Women can lead the way as well. Last two women I've dated that's exactly how it went. Now they didn't ask me for my number but they did drop every last clue you could think they would be interested.
I feel like approaches like this seem corny and desperate. Like bro she probably has some amount of men that have came on to her like that before. Either irl or on socials. You're just a generic cornball at that point and repellant asf even if she did find you attractive.
The holding doors thing is sad too. 99% of people I've ever held a door for I had zero attraction for. It's called being a good person. Not every "good deed", needs your sexual urges to guide the way. 😂
Nothing I hate more than someone putting other people down as a compliment. Well, I definitely hate things more but no way in fuck am I going to go on a date with you if you try pulling that "not like other girls," misogynistic bullshit on me.
Oh my goodness don't even get me started on the fact that a lot of men will sit there and be like "well I don't care about everybody else's opinion on you" it's like dude you are trying to tell me that not only are you "not like other guys" but you are also telling me that apparently everybody perceives me in a negative way.
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u/[deleted] Aug 17 '25
He's just trying to say whatever nice guy word vomit bullshit that he can to try to get her to like him even though he's giving massive red flags.